Install 2007

MacLeod

They sound even better!

I finally got everything in except my EQ. I spent about an hour listening trying to decide on going 3 way or not.

Man I can not say enough good things about these 5250's!! These things have not only as much midbass as their big brothers, but I think its a little better! Now granted the 6500's were confined to a horrible door location so Im sure its not all their fault but these 5250's just sound "fatter". Snare drums, male voices all have more thickness to them.

I love these things so much in fact that Im going to stay with a 2 way system and not use midbass speakers which is what I was wanting to do anyway. I just wanted to stay away from having 6 different speakers in 6 different locations in my front stage. Plus, I really dont have a whole lot of room to be mounting extra amps. But what gets me tickeled the most is that these things are only 2 days old! I cannot wait to hear them in a month!!

1996blackmax

Mac, why do you have the x-over setting on the high side for the tweeter? Did the lower frequency give you some problems?


I am liking the Q-forms, they look good. I thought about doing the same for my car, going with a 3way system and using them. My doors can actually accommodate pretty good sized midbass speakers. I am happy at the moment though..... I'll see a little later .

audiobliss

Great to hear that you're loving your new setup.

I personally thin kyou did a good job with your homemade kicks, too. But it sounds like the Qforms are the way to go.

Go Mac!!

audiobliss

Ok, after actually reading the second page...

Very interesting that you prefer going 2-way with the 5250's. That's good, though, I suppose.

Good luck with getting everything wired up, tweaked, and ready for competition!

MacLeod

1996blackmax wrote:

Mac, why do you have the x-over setting on the high side for the tweeter? Did the lower frequency give you some problems?

That was a hold over from my last setup. Id had them crossed at 3.2 KHz but I got a little better results tonally by bumping the tweets and mids to 4 KHz.

Funny you should mention that too, I was sitting in the parking lot tuning some and dropped the crossover point down to 3.2 again. It slightly brightened up the sound a hair but it brought up the left side of the stage a ton! I went down to 2.5 KHz but that started thinning out the upper midrange too much so I think Ill stay with 3.2 at least til the first show in Feb.

Its weird how you can make all kinds of changes without much difference, then stumble upon one little thing and make a world of difference!

Speaking of the first show, itll be Carl Casper Nationals in Kentucky. It was my first national show ever last season and I had a great time. 200 competitors and 600 car show competitors. All kinds of cool cars to see! Cant wait for this years!

1996blackmax

I know exactly what you mean, guess that's why the tuning of the systems keeps going .

I found that having a lower crossover point on the tweeters can help bring the stage up. It's a balancing act at times though.

MacLeod

Definitely.

Ya gotta find that point where the lower frequencies in the tweeters can bring the stage up and widen it to an extent, but yet not so low that it thins things out.

Hopefully I can get my EQ installed tomorrow before doing all the family stuff. Then, instead of only have 5 bands to screw up, Ill have 150!

1996blackmax

What eq did you get?

MacLeod

Alpine H700.

1996blackmax

Nice.....

Are you going to get a unit with an digital output later?

Did I say nice...

MacLeod

FINALLY! I have everything in.

I stuck the 700 under the passener seat where it fit like a glove. Running the wires wasnt too much trouble however, rather than buy $75 in RCA's, I kept my 18' JL Audio cables. The funny part is that I only needed 4'. So Ive got 3 channels of 14' cables rolled up under the carpet of the rear passenger side! Same thing with the remote. Its about 18' as well so Ive got 14' of it rolled up under the carpet of the drivers side rear seat! Oh well. What can ya do?

I will be upgrading to a HU with a digital out eventually, Ill have to as youre always going to have hiss when you turn a digital signal to analog, back to digital and then back to analog again. The hiss isnt that bad and hopefully it wont cost me any points for noise but I definitely need to have an Alpine with digital out by finals next year.

I did learn one thing today. While tuning for SQ competitions with only a 5 band EQ is hard, tuning for SQ competitions with 31 bands per channel is even harder! Im going to have to learn how to tune all over again!!

Anyone know if they have a "31 Band EQ's for Dummies" book out?

1996blackmax

I was going to mention the thing about the hiss to you, but thought you were probably aware of it. Just remember, not all the bands need to be dialed in .

MacLeod

Yeah, digital processors with analog inputs are legendary for their hiss.

Im using the Ai-net connection so the hiss isnt probably as bad as it could be and its still not that awful bad. Im hoping I can dial it down with gain settings.

Still, I aint bitching! Id much rather have a 700 and some hiss than no hiss and no 700!

Thom

MacLeod wrote:

Anyone know if they have a "31 Band EQ's for Dummies" book out?

Cut rather than boost. If you have to boost, don't go more than a few db.

MacLeod

Funny you should say that. I just got back in from yet another 2 hour tuning session and my curve is mostly cuts by 1-2 db. I was thinking that looked wrong! I guess Im doing it right then.

I also think I may go 3 way now. While I was loving the clarity of the 5250's, I just couldnt get enough "****" out of them. So I hooked up my old Alpine 50x2 amp and am running my SR6500's as midbasses. I did lose some clarity but I have a whole lot more energy in the midbass now.

Ive got both the 2-way and the 3-way curve stored in the presets so Ill get some 2nd opinions but I think Im going to keep the 6500's.

Greg Peters

MacLeod wrote:

Funny you should say that. I just got back in from yet another 2 hour tuning session and my curve is mostly cuts by 1-2 db. I was thinking that looked wrong! I guess Im doing it right then.

I also think I may go 3 way now. While I was loving the clarity of the 5250's, I just couldnt get enough "****" out of them. So I hooked up my old Alpine 50x2 amp and am running my SR6500's as midbasses. I did lose some clarity but I have a whole lot more energy in the midbass now.

Ive got both the 2-way and the 3-way curve stored in the presets so Ill get some 2nd opinions but I think Im going to keep the 6500's.

Do keep the 6500s. While I too love the sound of my 5250s, there is a distinct "lack of ****" .

The 6500s should sound killer used as a designated midbass, with the 5250s crossed over around 80-100 hz and the 6500s playing from there to their lower reaches.

MacLeod

Right now, Ive got the 6500's cut off at 80 Hz with a 12 db slope and then low passed at 200 Hz with a 24 db slope. I dont want to run the 5250's any lower than 200. 165'ish is where they start thinning out a bit.

beef316

MacLeod wrote:

Right now, Ive got the 6500's cut off at 80 Hz with a 12 db slope and then low passed at 200 Hz with a 24 db slope. I dont want to run the 5250's any lower than 200. 165'ish is where they start thinning out a bit.

If you feel the 5250s thinning out around 165, there may be something wrong with your install. They should play down to 100hz w/ pretty good impact and clarity.

Greg Peters

beef316 wrote:

If you feel the 5250s thinning out around 165, there may be something wrong with your install. They should play down to 100hz w/ pretty good impact and clarity.

It could be just because they're relatively new drivers still breaking in. The fact that they are mounted IB in kick panels without any kind of actual enclosure probably has something to do with their frequency response also.

I have my 5250s mounted in the door, and I run them crossed over at 50 hz (with a 24db/octave slope). While I don't get the solid fundamentals a 6 1/2" woofer would provide at the same crossover point, I also don't get any kind of breakup in the mids- just the roll off of the lowest frequencies designed into the 5250's response.

I would guess Mac's 5250s could be crossed over in the 80-100 hz range, but also agree that the 6500 mids mounted in a sealed door would do a lot better in the lower midbass region than 5250s mounted in the kicks.

Knowing Mac (from the forum), I'd be willing to bet he'll be experimenting with those SRs in three-way mode for a long time to come before he's satisfied with everything. It may just be a matter of powering the 6500s with the Crossfire amp and using the 50x2 Alpine on the 5250s, albeit crossed over much higher.

There are some differences between the Polk passive crossovers provided with both the 5250 and 6500 drivers also (with different tweeter attenuation settings), but it sounds like Mac will be going active with crossing over the three way setup.

PolkThug

MacLeod wrote:

Good Gawd I love these Qforms!!

Please find me some for the 05+ Mustang!!!

MacLeod

Im already running active. Currently (but this changes every day since there has yet to ba a day go by that I havent spent at least 2 hours sitting in the parking lot tuning) my crossover settings are:

tweets - 5 KHz @ 24 db slope
mids - 180 Hz @ 18 db / 4.5 KHz @ 30 db
midbass - 80 @ 18 db / 280 @ 30 db
sub - 40 @ 18 db

As for the mids playing low, dont misunderstand, they dont suck by any means. I would have zero problem running them forever crossed over at 60-80 Hz. However, Im wanting to get the best sound I possibly can because Ill be in the big leagues next season and Ill have to have all my I's crossed and T's dotted and my beloved 6500's can simply move more air than the 5250's can and will have a little more energy in the midbass dept. Plus, having the mids not having to play below 180 Hz, means the midrange will be cleaner.

Also, like Greg said, theyre just a week old and havent had time to break in properly but most of all, while I love the Q forms, they are NOT something youd want to do if you wanted serious midbass. Maybe if I fiberglassed the back of them and sealed them against the sheet metal so they could vent into the frame they would have a chance but even heavily Dynamatted, youre not going to get great midbass out of Qforms without extensive midifications. However, theyre perfect for midrange applications.

Thuggy - youre out of luck bro. They make em for the 97-04 Stangs but havent got to the new models yet.

MacLeod

OK, I think Im on to something.

I took out my 6500's and have decided to go with this setup instead. It really pounds now. The egg crate does wonders for reducing standing waves.

beef316

Is that a 3 way 6x9? Awesome!

audiobliss

BINGO! You've got it, Mac!

Glad to see you've finally come around, man! Here comes the world champion, now!!!

:D

MacLeod

beef316 wrote:

Is that a 3 way 6x9? Awesome!

No, I dont skimp. Those are 4 ways! If ya dont have a super tweeter, you aint got squat!

Took out my kicks today and slapped 10 pounds of modelling clay on the inside of each! These things weighed like 2 pounds each when I got them; now theyre about 15 pounds each!! LOL I dare these things to resonate!

Finished them off with some Dynaxorb pads against the wall of the kick and topped them off with some pollyfill. Since theyre only playing 100 Hz and up, these Qforms are now worthy!

exalted512

shouldve added some clay to the egg crate as well.
-Cody

audiobliss

BTW, glad to hear you're going with the three-way setup. Awesome.


*would insert thumbs up smiley here if I knew how*

MacLeod

Yeah, I really wanted to stick with a 2 way setup cause its just so much easier to keep everything in phase and all that, plus I dont have to mess with an additional amp but those 5.25's just couldnt get down low enough to meet my sub. I still dont have the 6.5's running that high either, just enough to bolster the 5.25's. Im closing in on my final setup and right now the midbasses are playing 50-200 Hz with the 5.25's running 110-6.3 KHz.

MIwrestler

haha thats so cool.

MacLeod

Finally got everything in and buttoned up. And I finally was able to clean my truck out!

Finally got the tuning dialed in too. It was giving me fits and I was about ready to rip out my EQ and go back to the HU cause my old install sounded better. No matter how many hours and how hard I worked I just could not get it right! I was getting really pissed off.

Then, just by chance while sitting in the gym parking lot last night, I decided to flop the polarity on the speakers 1 at a time and when I got to the left mid, BOOM! Everything fell into place at once! The midbass fattened up, the upper midrange lost its tinny sound but most importantly, the imaging focused up 100% better! So much so that Im currently running only .25 ms of time alignment as opposed to the 1.6 ms I had before and no TA on the other 5 speakers!!

That seemed to odd to me that would work so I pulled out the mids and checked that they were wired in phase and they were and at the amp. I dont get it! Both mids firing pretty much right up at me yet they were out of phase at 0 degrees but perfectly in phase at 180! When I had the mids in the doors with one of them 90 degrees off axis, they worked at 0 degrees. I dont understand it but Im happy!