New Car...Opinions...?

audiobliss

Ok, I'm now being faced with a dilemma. And I'm not quite sure what to think.

Alright, my car is a '95 Cherokee. I love it. I've said multiple times I don't ever want to get rid of it. Besides a dirty driver side floor mat, a small gash in the roof-liner, and a new found dampness under the driver's side carpet (haven't narrowed that one down yet), she's perfect. Sure, sure...scracthes here and there, thin paint here, and dent there...but really, she's in great shape. 129,86x miles...hoping she'll go for 300,000+ (I've read that's typical). She has the bullet-proof AW4 transmission. Everything's stock except for the audio system.

I've always wanted to put a lift, tires, bumpers, rock rails on it, and have been looking into that a lot more here recently. I've held the position that whenever I thought about selling, I probably wouldn't be able to get squat out of it, so why not just keep it forever? I mean, seriously? Whenever the engine needs work, stroke it to a 4.2 - 4.6L, rebuild, good for another 200,000 at least, I'd hope. It would make for an awesome continued DD, a trail rig, etc. Yeah, it'd soak up a lot of money (lift, shocks, tires and wheels: ~$1800 - $3000), but I'm talking about having it around for a long time. Doesn't seem like too much of a financial waste to me.

Well, Dad bought a 2004 Jetta TDI 5speed sometime last year that he's started using as DD instead of having to fill up our Suburban's gas tank. Fun car, good shape, really, though it does have about 70,000 miles on it already.

To cut to the chase, Dad *somehow* remembers me saying sometime before that I wanted to sell the Jeep; I certainly have NO recollection of saying that...but ok. He says he has a customer who would be interested in it for $4,000; and we only gave about $4,200 for it two years ago. All we've done to it is get the transmission seal replaced, new radiator and thermostat, and then gas and tires. Not too much money lost on it if we do decide to sell it. Dad's advocating I'd then drive the Jetta. Hey, that's pretty cool, right? Great gas mileage (46 - 52mpg....opposed to my 15mpg). Nicer interior. A lot nicer handling. The fun of a stick (though I'd have to learn how to drive it...that's right...be quiet...I don't know how yet...I said stop laughing!). Yada yada yada yada.

But I'd lose my Jeep! My dream is to have, say, the Jetta, with aftermarket wheels and suspension, intake, exhaust, engine management (one of my dad's customers said he could do something to the computer to get about 200 more horsepower out of it...woohoo!). Would make a nice, practical, economical daily driver. Then I could have my (hopefully) lifted Jeep as a trail rig and daily driver in the winter. That'd be a perfect scenario. But apparantly that's not really possible.

So, I guess I've rambled on and on and on enough here. What are y'all's thoughts? What would you do? I suppose I could take the Jetta and buy a clunker of a Jeep for cheap whenever. But then it'd be a clunker. I have an 11 year old Jeep now...that's in perfect condition. I just hate to see it go. I love driving it!

Argh. I hate choices, haha. Gimme some input!

PhantomOG

wow.. 200+ horsepower with simple computer engine management?

from 100 hp to 300 hp with a simple computer adjustment?

I say keep the Jeep since you like it.

Frank Z

Keep the XJ.

audiobliss

Well, that's what Dad said the guy said. Of course Dad has ZERO interest in it, so maybe the guy said an extra 100 and Dad just doesn't remember clearly.

Suffice it to say a fairly substantial power gain, but don't put any money on the +200hp figure. I'm gonna see if Dad will talk to that guy some more and find out more about it...I can't believe Dad wouldn't be interested...lol. Even if he's not interested in doing it...I'd love to just know more about it.

Ricardo

Here's some input...check your numbers

audiobliss wrote:

Dad's advocating I'd then drive the Jetta. Hey, that's pretty cool, right? Great gas mileage (46 - 52mpg....opposed to my 15mpg).

(one of my dad's customers said he could do something to the computer to get about 200 more horsepower out of it...woohoo!).

PhantomOG

I wouldn't put money on +100 either. +10-20? maybe.

heiney9

I have a completely modded VW GTI-Vr6 and while there are mods to be done on the diesel cars, it’s not typical, and you will never ever come close to getting your money out of the car. An extra 200hp seems very very ambitious for the diesel engine. Perhaps for the regular gas turbo that’s possible but not without many other things to go along with it. The Jetta right out of the box is a fun car. If you do get the diesel Jetta a suspension and upgraded wheels/tires are always nice, but extensive engine mods to a diesel (if your not a mechanic) is just throwing money out the window.

Just my .02c as I’ve owned Volkswagen’s almost exclusively and I know what can and can’t be done reasonably; and modding a diesel is unreasonable and the expense will be very high to do it right and still make it a reliable daily driver.

H9

ledhed

Wow, someone would buy a 95 Cherokee for 4000? I think you would be crazy not to take the offer. I would think KBB is around 3000 on that vehicle.

But of course, no price is worth sentiments or whatever.

audiobliss

HTrookie wrote:

Here's some input...check your numbers

Hahaha, yeah, yeah...good point. That and reliability are why Dad's not interested in it. But, if I'm going from 15mpg....I'd be pretty ecstatic with 25 - 30. Doesn't really matter, though, 'cause whatever this computer mod is, I'm sure it's expensive, and I'm sure Dad wouldn't let me do it...at least not for a while.

PhantomOG - Like I said, I can't say for sure what it was. But, assuming the customer knew what he was talking about (and of course I'm inclined to believe so), it was a fairly substantial increase.

bobman1235

It's a tough call, but it really just seems like you're fighting between practicality (better MPG, more economical Jetta) vs just something you love to drive. So I guess it just comes down to which of those things is more important in the long run - which is going to make you happier, more money in your pocket (and being better to the environment, if you care about that), or loving your car?

audiobliss

Thanks for your input, heiney. Haha, if this Jetta had the VR6...there'd be no discussion - it'd be mine! Haha. It's good to hear that about the diesel...no, wait...it's not good to hear...but it's good to hear a final word on it. Perhaps the customer didn't know it was the TDI? Beats me...

ledhed wrote:

Wow, someone would buy a 95 Cherokee for 4000? I think you would be crazy not to take the offer. I would think KBB is around 3000 on that vehicle.

But of course, no price is worth sentiments or whatever.

Exactly! I think KBB, last time I looked it up, wasn't but about $2,800 or so. Another good reason to look at selling it.

audiobliss

KBB private party value:
Excellent: $3,140
Good: $2,775

I'd say it's between exc and good...it looks to be in exc condition...but the paint has been touched up on the front end from where I ran into that chain link fence...:rolleyes:

PhantomOG

audiobliss wrote:

...it was a fairly substantial increase.

10 to 20% (10 to 20hp on a stock 100hp car) *is* substantial. 2x or 3x horsepower increase is impossible without major modifications (engine swap, turbo, etc. etc.) Trust me, you are not going to get anything over a ~30 hp gain without some serious modifications and serious $$$. No offense intended but either the guy doesn't know what he is talking about or someone got their numbers mixed up along the way.

If you stand make a good deal on the Jeep, take the money. You'll save money on gas and you are still young and have time to get a car you "love" again in the future.

ledhed

I would sell it, drive something else for awhile, looking for another one (they definitely aren't rare) that is even cheaper. But, that is me, I have never owned a car I love so I can't offer that perspective.

ledhed

And shouldn't you be in school? :eek:

audiobliss

Hahaha. My only class on T/TH is from 3:30 - 5.

audiobliss

PhantomOG wrote:

10 to 20% (10 to 20hp on a stock 100hp car) *is* substantial. 2x or 3x horsepower increase is impossible without major modifications (engine swap, turbo, etc. etc.) Trust me, you are not going to get anything over a ~30 hp gain without some serious modifications and serious $$$. No offense intended but either the guy doesn't know what he is talking about or someone got their numbers mixed up along the way.

Indeed, indeed, 20hp would be a substantial increase. I'm not *quite* car illiterate, so I know how brash a statement it is to say you can get 200 more hp out of something. Especially with no internal modifications. But then again, take the Cummins and Powerstrokes. I've not researched them, but unless I'm mistaken, you can get some wicked power increases with just aftermarket chips.

At any rate, it does sound like I shouldn't get the Jetta, expecting to rule the stoplight or the strip.

Oh, and no offense taken.

PhantomOG wrote:

If you stand make a good deal on the Jeep, take the money. You'll save money on gas and you are still young and have time to get a car you "love" again in the future.

Yeah, that's sounding like a smart move.


I played around with google last night a bit, but didn't find much. Anybody (heiney9?) know of a good VW forum that has a lot of info on the TDI I could check out? I read that the 2004 Jetta TDI does 0 - 60 in 11.3 and the 1/4 in 18.1...is that right? It really feels at least as fast as my Jeep....which I'm guessing does 0 - 60 in around 10 or a little less. Actually I'd guess it does it in less than 9, maybe, but I don't really know so I'll play it safe and stick with under 10.

ledhed

Oh, for some reason, I thought you were younger than me and still in High School. Dunno why I thought that.

Here is what I do when I have a difficult decision, I flip a coin. If when it lands, I wish it had went the other way, I do what I wished. Thats probably pretty confusing so, Heads is Jetta, Tails Jeep. If it lands on jetta and your gut is like "Ah man!" then keep the jeep. It's just a simple way to tell what you really want

audiobliss

I just graduated HS this May, so you're not off by much.

Sounds like a neat way to trick yourself into revealing your true wishes! Haha...

ledhed

audiobliss wrote:

I just graduated HS this May

Same here, I must be thinking of Sid

MSALLA

I think I would take the $4000.00 for the jeep. You could find a nice project car or truck for the money. But if your heart is set on the jeep, keep it.

AndyGwis

I'm not too far removed from having a similar dilemma. I had a '92 Jeep Cherokee sport when I was 16 years old. Loved it at first, but by the end of it, I ended up sinking a bunch of money fixing the jeep when I could've just saved and gotten a better car.

Unless you'll hate yourself for it later, I'd give the Jetta a shot. You've had a good time with the Jeep, and, unlike the majority of Jeep owners (my family's owned a few), you'll be getting out in good financial shape before it starts breaking down.

Maybe it will run forever, but I doubt it. Get the Jetta, save some money on gas, don't supe up a Jeep as you never get your money back afterwards. . . cars are about the worst financial investment you can make.

But, audio gear is pretty much depreciation-free if you buy used. Sell for what you bought it for in many cases

heiney9

audiobliss wrote:

I played around with google last night a bit, but didn't find much. Anybody (heiney9?) know of a good VW forum that has a lot of info on the TDI I could check out? I read that the 2004 Jetta TDI does 0 - 60 in 11.3 and the 1/4 in 18.1...is that right? It really feels at least as fast as my Jeep....which I'm guessing does 0 - 60 in around 10 or a little less. Actually I'd guess it does it in less than 9, maybe, but I don't really know so I'll play it safe and stick with under 10.

10 or less is pushing it. To even shave 0.5 to 1.0 second off a 0-60 time is work.

My GTI has all the mods done you can do w/o doing the VSR (variable length intake runner) intake and cams which would be abut $4500 for about 10-15 hp between 5000-7000 rpm. I have a Garrett chip, SS performance exhaust with high flow Borla mufflers, cold air intake, euro throttle body, Bilsteins, H & R springs, momo accessories, short shift kit, Nology wires. I have to run 93 octane and the thing runs like it's on steroids WOT and is a nice daily driver despite being lowered 2 inches on these crappy Midwest roads.

These mods togther are good for about 25-30 hp not bad for a nornally aspirated engine. But all in all about $3500-4000 in mods with labor/rims/tires, etc.

The gas turbo's can get a lot of HP with just a chip 50-75 without any trouble at all. If you get the Jetta it would be a nice fun daily driver especially if you tighten up the suspension, but perfomance mods beyond that is just plain silly.

I vote for the Jetta........experience something different

A greta site although most are punk a$$ kids who don't know what they are doing (read between the lines) is

www.vwvortex.com

H9

Greg Peters

For a slightly different opinion...I've had a VW and currently own a Cherokee.

While I understand that the Jeep consumes a hell of a lot of fuel, the Jeep is also a lot more owner friendly. Parts cost less, and you can actually do work on it yourself if you have a mind to.

While VW makes a nice car these days and have great mileage, they can be a nightmare/moneypit as a used car purchase if proper maintenance was not followed to the letter by the previous owner. They are also not designed for owner made repairs- I had to resort to drastic measures with mine and grind off/replace some tamper-proof fasteners under the hood rather than take the thing to the dealer at huge cost for some relatively minor repairs. At that time I couldn't buy the tools to remove the tamper-proof fasteners (and the dealer wasn't interested in selling them).

While my VW drove nice and was reasonably reliable, it was a frustrating car to own in that only certain shops would want to work on them and charge huge money for minor repairs that I'd normally do myself.

I recently put a system in an '05 (old body style) TDI Jetta, and got to drive it around for a few days. While it drove nice, used little fuel, and made reasonably good power around town, I personally would only consider a new one with full warranty, then sell near the end of the warranty period.

Two friends of mine had the diesel VW Rabbit and Golf, and while fairly economical/reliable long term, they cost more for maintenance and repairs than usual. Both cars eventually required a head gasket (a much bigger deal on a diesel than on a gas engine) that ran about $1100 all together.

The audio in the newer VWs can be a pain in the a$$ to upgrade as well (unless you plan on replacing everything with aftermarket), requiring some interesting work-arounds if you intend to keep the factory HU, depending on which system yours came with.

audiobliss

MSALLA wrote:

I think I would take the $4000.00 for the jeep. You could find a nice project car or truck for the money. But if your heart is set on the jeep, keep it.

Well, I didn't pay a penny for the Jeep, so I'm sure I wouldn't be seeing a penny of the $4,000.

AndyGwis - Thanks for throwing your experience out there. Don't know if I'd hate myself for it later or not...

heiney9 - Yeah, I actually ran across vwvortex. Seemed like an *ok* place. Saw some pics of a radical Golf.

heiney9

audiobliss wrote:

heiney9 - Yeah, I actually ran across vwvortex. Seemed like an *ok* place. Saw some pics of a radical Golf.

There's some quality info there, but you have to wade thru A LOT of crap to find it.

strider

$4k is a lot of money for that Jeep, IMO. But what does $4k buy you when you are looking around for something else? It's nice to have something to drive that you know to be reliable. I work with cars everyday; I know some of my techs have worked at VW dealerships. Most of them aren't too fond of the newer VW's. My friend, however, has a TDI Jetta that has never had a problem, and gets great fuel economy. My $.02, having made a similar decision with my Tacoma recently: if you know the Jeep is a good vehicle, I'd stick with it and run it into the ground. As was said above, they're cheaper to get parts for and easier to work on. Put some money into a mild lift, bigger tires, and some cheap steel wheels. Have some fun with your XJ, you'll be surprised where it'll get you!

MSALLA

audiobliss wrote:

Well, I didn't pay a penny for the Jeep, so I'm sure I wouldn't be seeing a penny of the $4,000.

AndyGwis - Thanks for throwing your experience out there. Don't know if I'd hate myself for it later or not...

heiney9 - Yeah, I actually ran across vwvortex. Seemed like an *ok* place. Saw some pics of a radical Golf.

If POP is going to pocket the $4000.00 you may want to just keep the jeep.He might be right in keeping the money if he paid for it,but right or not, you won't have a jeep to play with or the money for a new project.

audiobliss

Well, yesterday and the day before I spent just about all my time on www.tdiclub.com, reading about what you can do with TDI's. Seems like there's a bunch of really happy TDI owners over there, with some pretty fast-sounding rides. I found it fairly easy to get into it...it all seemed fairly interesting. So I decided I could probably let go of my Jeep and settle for the Jetta.

Then I got in my Jeep to go somwhere and it smelled like something was burning...and my amp under my driver's seat was covered in what looked like dew...just covered. And I remembered how the steering is getting looser...and how the carpet under my feet is wet due to some new leak...and how I'll never, in reality, make time to work on it....So I was thinking that I could settle for a Jetta.

Then I got out and looked at the Jeep. Such a classic, timeless look. It will never die. It will never grow old. It will always be a Cherokee, and it will always look great. And it's glorious in its simplicity and capability, just an awesome all-around car. I want to keep the Jeep.

But then, I could always buy one for $2k one day later down the road. And I could be getting 52mpg now.

Argh.

I think I've finally made up my mind. If, come the beginning of the year, the guy still wants it and will pay close to $4k...I'll move on and see what a Jetta can have in store for me. If not, then I'll continue with my plans for the XJ.

Now I guess I'll just hafta wait and see.

markmarc

44 years have taught me that putting money into making a car fancier is the worst investment possible. Keep the jeep, it's paid for, but don't sink money into it. Make sure you have an emergency fund for repairs, then put the money away you would have spent on lift kits in a bank cd and save up to own property.

BaggedLancer

markmarc wrote:

44 years have taught me that putting money into making a car fancier is the worst investment possible. Keep the jeep, it's paid for, but don't sink money into it. Make sure you have an emergency fund for repairs, then put the money away you would have spent on lift kits in a bank cd and save up to own property.

Took you 44 years.....

Took me about 4 years to realize that. After I built this:

www.cardomain.com/id/ozlancerlunitic

I realized that I didn't stand a chance of even recovering about 15% of my investment. Despite the car being a blast to own and drive, it was more of a headache than anything. Once you start adding the fancy stuff, you are increasing the chances of theft or vandalism 10 fold or more. Happened to me twice.

My advice, take the Jetta, drive it till it drives no more. Then, once your on your own in your own house, buy yourself a daily driver car and a "toy." Could be as cheap as a $2000 cherokee that you could lift, big tires, etc or maybe a $50000 corvette, but that is up to you.

Believe, I am only a couple years older than you and I learned the hard way. I'd give anything to put that $15,000 I put into my last car back in the bank, whether it be in the stock market or maybe even a down payment on a condo.