I found the best preamp

VR3
VR3 Posts: 28,643
edited November 2006 in 2 Channel Audio
No preamp...

Jesus...
- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
Post edited by VR3 on
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,068
    edited November 2006
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote:
    No preamp...

    Jesus...

    Try a CJ tube preamp then report back. You might just change your mind.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited November 2006
    Jesus....

    He found a Pre-amp ;)

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,643
    edited November 2006
    Yep, to bad I need to many inputs - but if I were to ever do a true 2 channel setup, it definitely would not include a preamp...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited November 2006
    What! I think you should have spent more time in the PF6 house then on the Porch.

    Speakers
    Carver Amazing Fronts
    CS400i Center
    RT800i's Rears
    Sub Paradigm Servo 15

    Electronics
    Conrad Johnson PV-5 pre-amp
    Parasound Halo A23
    Pioneer 84TXSi AVR
    Pioneer 79Avi DVD
    Sony CX400 CD changer
    Panasonic 42-PX60U Plasma
    WMC Win7 32bit HD DVR


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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,643
    edited November 2006
    Ill do another comparison when I get my odyssey - until then, My B&K just got blew away....
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited November 2006
    Though running "pre-amp free" can sound very neutral, it can also lack some impact, pace, and sound a little too sterile. It really boils down to taste; I tried it both ways---and although it sounds great either way, I preferred the extra punch that having my A3CR in the chain provided.

    Sometimes a little flavor is a good thing.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • Midnite Mick
    Midnite Mick Posts: 1,591
    edited November 2006
    I have never tried to run my Consonance player directly to the amps (has volume knob in the back). The reviews that I have read had stated that the player benefits from a preamp vs. without.

    Mike
    Modwright SWL 9.0 SE (6Sons Audio Thunderbird PC with Oyaide 004 terminations)
    Consonance cd120T
    Consonance Cyber 800 tube monoblocks (6Sons Audio Thunderbird PC's with Oyaide 004 terminations)
    Usher CP 6311

    Phillips Pronto TS1000 Universal Remote
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  • BlueMDPicker
    BlueMDPicker Posts: 7,569
    edited November 2006
    steveinaz wrote:
    Though running "pre-amp free" can sound very neutral, it can also lack some impact, pace, and sound a little too sterile. It really boils down to taste; I tried it both ways---and although it sounds great either way, I preferred the extra punch that having my A3CR in the chain provided.

    Sometimes a little flavor is a good thing.
    Same here, Steve. I built my SEOTL monos with the plan of driving them direct from the Shanling CD-T100 into my single driver Cain & Cain's. It was certainly very "clean" sounding but lacked, as you observed, impact. I also tried running the Shanling direct (well, the active crossover is in between) with my ESLs. Sounded excellent for a few hours until you start noticing (and feeling) what's missing.

    My iPod driving the ST-70 into RTA-8s is another story. Very good sound quality. Who would have every figured?

    Have fun Trey! Let us know how the Odyssey synergizes.
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  • W WALDECKER
    W WALDECKER Posts: 900
    edited November 2006
    Zero wrote:
    Steve,

    I've encountered similar results with a number of amps, eeeeeeven possibly including the one inspiring the "host" of this thread. :p

    Still, I gotta say, there are also a number of amps that are downright fantastic when ran source-direct. I found usually those variety come in the form of vacuume tube, class A transistor... but occasionally you can find a class A/B and D that can pull it off as well.
    Sid the Kid's Khartago is a class A/B biased heavily in favor of class A :)
    Rogue Audio stereo 100 tube amplifier - Lector Zoe preamplifier with 6H30 pi's
    .Audience AU24SE speaker and ic cables- Chord Qutest DAC - Black Cat Silverstar II 75ohm digital cable-Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Signature system with large bass cabinets to accommodate 10" Seas magnesium woofers.2xhmpsuownoj.jpg
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  • W WALDECKER
    W WALDECKER Posts: 900
    edited November 2006
    Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote:
    Ill do another comparison when I get my odyssey - until then, My B&K just got blew away....
    Hey Sid, did you order a Candela tube preamplifier ? i am Running a pair of NOS circa 1962 Amperex Holland ECC186/7316 PQ's in my Candela and it sounds so nice that i have to pinch myself to make sure that i am not dreaming :D
    Rogue Audio stereo 100 tube amplifier - Lector Zoe preamplifier with 6H30 pi's
    .Audience AU24SE speaker and ic cables- Chord Qutest DAC - Black Cat Silverstar II 75ohm digital cable-Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Signature system with large bass cabinets to accommodate 10" Seas magnesium woofers.2xhmpsuownoj.jpg
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited November 2006
    It boils down to taste but most importantly it's all about the synergy of the gear used. I have yet to find a passive pre or direct source to amp combo I like as much as preamped set-up. Not saying they aren't out there, but mating that type of gear can be like finding a needle in a haystack when it comes to omitting the preamp.

    As always YMMV

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited November 2006
    I'm going to make a bold statement here, but welcome constructive comments -- the two basic purposes of a preamp is to serve as a traffic cop and to control volume. Both of these functions, along with interconnects, power cords, etc., introduce additional "material" into the signal. So if one has a simple setup (i.e., 1 or 2 inputs needed, no outputs required) and has volume control on the source or on the amp, with all other things being equal, why bother with a preamp?

    No flaming, please. Just trying to get some learn on...

    BTW -- this approach seems intriguing: http://www.psaudio.com/products/gcc_control_amplifiers.asp
    Anyone demo this amp?
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • BlueMDPicker
    BlueMDPicker Posts: 7,569
    edited November 2006
    Early B. wrote:
    BTW -- this approach seems intriguing: http://www.psaudio.com/products/gcc_control_amplifiers.asp
    Anyone demo this amp?
    It's the GCA (dual mono) amp chassis with their gain control added (no signal is attenuated or "thrown away"). I seriously considered it after hearing the GCA-100, but needed my sub amp/active xover in the middle of the chain. If you need only the features a conventional integrated sports, I think you'd be very pleased with the GCC line.

    BTW - I have an authorized dealer I can refer you to, who normally offers me substantial breaks under MSRP, if you're considering new versus used.
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited November 2006
    Early B. wrote:
    So if one has a simple setup (i.e., 1 or 2 inputs needed, no outputs required) and has volume control on the source or on the amp, with all other things being equal, why bother with a preamp?

    Often, the volume controls on source components are not of very high quality and diminish the quality of the sound to a significant extent. For example, I have three CD players that have fixed and variable outputs: Sony CDP-XA7ES, Denon DCD-1650AR, and Yamaha CDX-1110U. In every case, I found the sound from the CD player through a clean preamp to be significantly superior to that of the CD player directly feeding a power amp.

    Most companies skimp on the quality of a source component's variable out volume control because they know many, if not most, people won't use it, or will not care about the loss in sound quality.
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,643
    edited November 2006
    The B&K has always been the weakest link in my setup, was more so denial than anything that kept it in the chain...

    The Odyssey, I plan to order about 1-2 months after the Tylers arrive, they are expected early next year...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • ohskigod
    ohskigod Posts: 6,502
    edited November 2006
    hey, do what sounds best in your set up, if it is no pre (until you get a good one) then so be it.

    I ran no pre when I was running my bozaks on the Sophia Electric Baby amp. a volume damper on the front made that very easy to do.
    Living Room 2 Channel -
    Schiit SYS Passive Pre. Jolida CD player. Songbird streamer. California Audio Labs Sigma II DAC, DIY 300as1/a1 Ice modules Class D amp. LSi15 with MM842 woofer upgrade, Nordost Blue Heaven and Unity interconnects.

    Upstairs 2 Channel Rig -
    Prometheus Ref. TVC passive pre, SAE A-205 Amp, Wiim pro streamer and Topping E50 DAC, California Audio Labs DX1 CD player, Von Schweikert VR3.5 speakers.

    Studio Rig - Scarlett 18i20(Gen3) DAW, Mac Mini, Aiyma A07 Max (BridgedX2), Totem Mites
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited November 2006
    Early B. wrote:
    I'm going to make a bold statement here, but welcome constructive comments -- the two basic purposes of a preamp is to serve as a traffic cop and to control volume. Both of these functions, along with interconnects, power cords, etc., introduce additional "material" into the signal. So if one has a simple setup (i.e., 1 or 2 inputs needed, no outputs required) and has volume control on the source or on the amp, with all other things being equal, why bother with a preamp?

    You're absolutely right, but for me going preamp-less was just a little too bland. Great for classical and acoustical, but a lack of slam and body for Rock/Jazz.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,643
    edited November 2006
    For my particular setup, there was a ton of dynamics, and even without a subwoofer - the RT55 dished out some killer bass...

    But it was very bright and as some have mentioned, analytical...

    Im expecting the Odyssey to be just like this, just more laid back and overall controlled...

    But I liked the increase of detail, dynamics, and bass of having no source... without a doubt.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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