Center chanel biwire

2

Comments

  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,988
    edited July 2002
    Or, simply modify the logo on your Polks, call them 'Le Polke' or some such, tell your hifi buddies they are French, and you paid $3300 a piece for them.....

    Let the ooohs and aaahs begin.....

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 12,950
    edited July 2002
    I'm SOOOO biting my friggin toungue right now........


    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • HBombToo
    HBombToo Posts: 5,256
    edited July 2002
    Let it rip Troy
    ***WAREMTAE***
  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 12,950
    edited July 2002
    Well, It would just seem to me that the Dynamic Duo, Dan and his partner, the boy blunder, might not have thier ducks in a row on this issue.

    And for the record, I have a passive preamp, and all the specs for my souces at the house if need be not to mention EXTENSIVE testing.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,384
    edited July 2002
    So,
    The personal attacks aren't going to quite.
    I voiced my opnion and exactly what I found by doing this.I stand as it is.You all can hook up your systems,drive them with whatever floats your boat,you will not find this in my system.
    Nor will I give any help,opnion on this type for setup.
    Like I said time and time again,this is what I personally have experienced,not what theory I dreamed up like most of you!
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,384
    edited July 2002
    TroyD,
    are you sure you don't have a receiver unplugged in the wall as your passive preamp???
    If you not running a receiver as your preamp for your beloved 2 channel setup,why not???????
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • liv4fam
    liv4fam Posts: 311
    edited July 2002
    Hey Troy, You just can't quit can you? Don't you want to come into this forum and just talk about your beloved polks? I really don't want to waste my time in this forum as I actually have better stuff to do with my time. But you and Russman keep picking on everybody even though you say that you don't. So I will hang out until you stop or leave. I am not like Dan, I don't care who you are or what equipment you own but I do know you talk a lot of SMACK!! You accuse us of offering no help or hard data on any subject but let me tell something SPECS are exactly what they are SPECULATIONS!!!!! Go out and listen to Transparent vs. Monster or Yamaha HTR vs. RXV and hear the differences with your own ears to determines if equipment is good or bad. If you rely on specs you know absolute nothing about equipment. Do you really believe that the Denon AVR-5800 has a 170watts-7? Well it doesn't it does 82watts all channels driven. Bench-tested ourselves. How's that for your specs? Another thing about using receivers with power amps, even though you use an amplifier you are still getting all the noise and crap of your cheapy Circuit City receiver. Use a yamaha receiver as a preamp and put an integra adm 2.1 amp in with it and what do you get? An earbleed and a headache!! It's not the integra but the extremely high and bright yamaha preamp. So troy and russman until you get out from in front of your computer why don't you go into the real world and actually listen and test stuff so you can stop guessing and quoting specs to everybody. Until you do SHUT IT!!!!!!!!!!
  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 12,950
    edited July 2002
    Way to stay on topic there boy blunder.

    You can't PAY for entertainment this good, I tell ya.

    Now, I think Dan and I have come to a truce, the boy blunder reference was all about you, cochese. I think Dan might have put you up to coming in here but I think he distanced himself when he saw what a jackass you turned out to be. Good on you, Dan.

    Let's see, lemme go look at my 2 ch rig // walking down the hall.....walking back// NOPE, no receivers or Polks in there. Just Adcom, Carver, AMC and Dahlquist.....

    Having said that, I don't care what the output is RMS for any receiver, I don't think that is what we were talking about. You, as a I recall were tossing terms about voltages. Now I can empirically prove that a high out put source can drive an amp with just passive volume control as has HBomb. Given that, as long as there is no signal loss, which would seem MOST unlikely, using a receiver as a preamp, there is no issue with enough voltage to drive the amp. Go get some of your product manuals and look.

    Keep it flowing, the entertainment value is high.

    BDT

    Dan, this is not meant at you at all just for the other dude.
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 12,950
    edited July 2002
    Furthermore, how much power, continuous do think that most folks REALLY consume anyway?

    Let's say, for the sake of argument that you are correct. Why are you NOT suing Denon for false advertising? The power ratings are published under Federal guidlines so that would be illegal, NO?

    More to the point, who friggin' cares? I don't notice a lot of people complaining about clipping it so would it not be a moot point?? IMO (that's opinion, as in mine) 50wpc of good clean power in MOST applications is very sufficient.

    Now, calm down and let's discuss this like adults. You wanna come in with guns blazing acting like a jackass? Well, that's how you are going to be treated.

    Troy
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,988
    edited July 2002
    Nothing really to add, well said Troy. That was top form, I tell ya, it don't GET any better, of course that chump lobbed up a softball the size of a watermelon, so it wasn't exactly a challenge.....

    Cheers,
    Laughing (but VERY intimidated by liv4fam) Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • Aaron
    Aaron Posts: 1,853
    edited July 2002
    Why is it that you guys need to "prove" that you know more than anyone else here? Do you think stating your resume helps? Just drop it! Can someone just have an opinion without starting a **** storm? Is it possible for two people to hold a differing opinion? This is worse than a dick comparing contest! I'm not saying Russ and Troy are innocent here, but they certainly take a more open-minded approach to this whole thing.

    Aaron
  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 12,950
    edited July 2002
    BTW, my 2ch rig, the preamp is an ADCOM SLC-505.

    Troy
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • nascarmann
    nascarmann Posts: 1,464
    edited July 2002
    liv4fam

    I have tried to stay out of this crap..... Now, let me tell you one thing I do know......RX-V800 and HTR-5280 are the same exact receiver.....period! Test it...kick it...lick it...xuck it...the only thing you will find different is the markings on the outside. How do I know this....I have had both of them apart at the same time....if you here a difference....maybe enough said!
    Use a yamaha receiver as a preamp and put an integra adm 2.1 amp in with it and what do you get? An earbleed and a headache!! It's not the integra but the extremely high and bright yamaha preamp.

    Lets talk about this.....I can't say what an integra amp will sound like with a Yamaha receiver.....but I can tell you my Yamaha M-85 my (2) M-80's and my (2) M-70's sound very nice with my Yamaha receiver. But I do use Polk speakers....SDA's....sould I sell these and get something new.....Please give me a reveiw of the SDA line? I just bought a Yamaha C-80 pre-amp and with the little amount of time I have had with it....My receiver is not put to shame....

    I don't like getting in these type threads....I like joking around and talking a little electronics and just having fun.....looking at your post......well enough said:rolleyes:
    Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 12,950
    edited July 2002
    I will say this, in all candor, I'm not saying that using a receiver as a preamp is ideal. My issue, and I can converse intelligently, is that voltage isn't really the issue.

    Dan, again, I'm not being sarcastic to you, I think we just have differing opinions and experiences here.

    Troy
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • briancs
    briancs Posts: 193
    edited July 2002
    Originally by Liv4fam:
    "SPECS are exactly what they are SPECULATIONS!!!!!"
    Ok I don't do anything comparable to you most of youguys for a living. I don't have a college degree. I am not terribly smart, though not to the point of being autistic.
    But I thought specs was short for specIFICATIONS!
    Am I wrong or just the only person that noticed this?
    Damn you guys don't have to spell right, but at least use the right word.
    The guy with $40.00 mains and a $700.00 subwoofer.
  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,988
    edited July 2002
    Yeah, we noticed, I'm hoping he was going for a play on words, but somehow that seems doubtful......

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • briancs
    briancs Posts: 193
    edited July 2002
    Russ that made me laugh out loud! Funny as hell man. Are you withdrawn do you want to live in Montana as a hermit? Because that image is sure to piss someone off. Not me though. I believe in equal opportunity I hate everyone. Till they prove I shouldn't. :D So far all you guys are cool except that one guy who is pissing everyone off.
    The guy with $40.00 mains and a $700.00 subwoofer.
  • briancs
    briancs Posts: 193
    edited July 2002
    Now you four that are fighting. Why don't you just get in the sack and get it over with. You sound like four people all married to eachother. Now lets quit this crap before you all get the boot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    The guy with $40.00 mains and a $700.00 subwoofer.
  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 12,950
    edited July 2002
    WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH

    OMG, that is friggin' HILARIOUS!

    GREATNESS, man, GREATNESS!

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 12,950
    edited July 2002
    liv4fam,

    Issues man, I posted my view, bs aside, what's your take? You been lurking in this post for awhile now.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • liv4fam
    liv4fam Posts: 311
    edited July 2002
    Troy answer me this, How is output voltage measured? If a receiver's main,surround,center,sub preout is 4.0 volts for example is it always pushing 4 volts or is that maximum output. Where does it fully reach 4 volts? Does it push maximum output at low levels? How much distortion is the receiver putting through to the preouts? Obviously you don't think voltage has anything to do with anything so prove me wrong. Can you reach maximum dynamics and full headroom if you hook up a Harmon Kardon 520 to a Krell FPB 300c amplifier or a Mark levinson No. 33. I want to hear what you have to say (Don't quote specs to me) give me real world data that you have heard and tested.
  • Aaron
    Aaron Posts: 1,853
    edited July 2002
    Oh man, I busted a lung!

    Aaron
  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,988
    edited July 2002
    Liv4fam is term tossing again, now he's quoting ML.... good god, be afraid, look at the brand he mentioned!!!

    Tell you what dipshit, why don't you simply state your point, instead of insisting others prove you wrong. All you have done, may I say, you pansy-**** ****, is quote a few terms, throw out some names, bash fellow members gear, yet through all the jibbersish, you have said nothing. Effiin nothing, but then again, I expected no more.

    Say something already...put down the playdoh, and say something. G'head, quote a manual, or some literature a rep gave you, just say SOMETHING meaningful....

    (forum members, prepare for the next round of wide-open **** spillage from our friend, liv4fam)

    Cheers,
    Russ

    Thank you, thank you SO much Dan for turning this moron onto the forum, please take credit, I owe you!!!
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 12,950
    edited July 2002
    Ok, let's deal with the issue at hand....


    Outlaw Voltage In for full power out @ 200Watts is 1.43 volts, Published. I contacted Outlaw for confirmation and They also reported that the 770 is designed such that it conforms to THX standards and puts out 100W @ 1 Volt in. I also contacted H/k regarding my 520 and they have designed their PreAmps such that they will drive to nearly 2.2Volts which far exceeds the input requirments of the Outlaw.

    If you accept that as true, and I'll take it at face value, your argument holds no water. Most sources will produce in the neighborhood of 2 volts which will drive the amp sufficiently with out the benefit of the ADDED voltage of a preamp.

    Can I prove this in REAL world testing? Not with a Krell amp but with a Carver m1.5t (350wpc) I can tell you that a straight signal from the source with only passive attenuation to the amp will drive the amp as loud as you care to listen. Russ has also demoed this preamp on a Carver m400a, (201 wpc) and will attest to similar results.

    Now, can it run to exhaust the headroom? I dunno but it's a moot point, even if it could, just about any speaker you could come up with would fry before you got to that point so it's not worth the time to consider.

    So, not only do I have hard data but real world testing. Look man, this isn't rocket science here....

    Care to continue?

    Troy
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • nascarmann
    nascarmann Posts: 1,464
    edited July 2002
    sub preout is 4.0 volts for example is it always pushing 4 volts or is that maximum output

    Uhm.....with volume off you would have 0.0 volts in real world data
    always pushing 4 volts or is that maximum output

    Uhm.....max
    Does it push maximum output at low levels?

    Uhm.....if you read my last 2 answers this has been answered
    How much distortion is the receiver putting through to the preouts?

    Uhm.....never seen a volt distort.....I'm no engineer though
    . Can you reach maximum dynamics and full headroom if you hook up a Harmon Kardon 520 to a Krell FPB 300c amplifier or a Mark levinson No. 33. I want to hear what you have to say (Don't quote specs to me) give me real world data that you have heard and tested.

    Well.....damn you have got me there.....I have not tested this with real world data.....I need to borrow your manual you forgot to give the customer......
    Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,988
    edited July 2002
    C'mon nascarmann, you don't have a 'bench' to test? Liv4fam only seems to stop talking (writing) long enough to switch feet.

    KING PREAMP, live long my brotha....

    Cheers,
    Laughing Hysterically Now, Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • fireshoes
    fireshoes Posts: 3,212
    edited July 2002
    Can you guys keep the off-topic stuff in the off-topic forum please? It's hard to believe this thread started as a simple question about bi-wiring. If you aren't going to post something meaningful, please, I'm sure many of us would appreciate it if you just didn't post at all.

    My $.02
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,384
    edited July 2002
    TroyD,
    Thanks for the redirect on my partner,and stop thanking me guys,I'm going to say this again.I DIDN'T BRING HIM IN HERE HE CAME ON HIS OWN,HE OWNS THE PSW1200 SUB,HAS THE RIGHT TO BE HERE.JUST LIKE ALL OF YOU.

    Think about it guys,everybodies up in roar over his outlandis style of posting.Is it really any different then what MOST of us have done to each other in the past???Really, think about it before you start replied and pointing fingers.

    I came forth trying to end this Insane maddness in here.Believe it or not he wasn't going to WASTE his time in here with us,but you guys just can't leave it alone.

    Even me,I want to stop posting **** but if things don't change soon, I'm going to go even crazier then Liv4fam could dream of doing.....you think hes bad let me get started!!!!!!!WE together will ruin this forum for everyone..................I don't want that at all.

    So with that being said can we PLEASE just let the MADDNESS go???
    He(liv4fam)will back off if you guys do.Believe me he will stop at nothing untill he pisses all of you off completely.I will also say this,your pissing me off right along with all of this.

    ToryD...you seem to have come 2 a truce with me.I will answer your questions about topic's that you feel I didn't address.I would love to TALK CIVIL about anything you want.But with all this MADDNESS I just want to rip EVERYONES FACE OFF.

    I also want all the personal **** to stop about what I do for a living.If I TOLD you guys what I make,most of you would SHUT THE HELL UP.

    LISTEN VERY CARFULLY...........this needs to end here.EFF the male ego and move on and post ELSEWHERE where we can get back to enjoying our systems we built.I'd love to talk to the first REAL person about audio and video.Without all the bashing and crying.

    Remember this as well guys...I'M AS MUCH FAULT AS EVERYONE ELSE.It takes all of this to continue and only one the stop it.
    Again I want out.Please don't force me to REPLY IN ANGER.I want nothing of.Push me and I will bite your face off.Speak to me and we all can get along.

    As far as Liv4fam????????It's up to you guys and him.Don't INSULT HIM anymore about what he does for a living.........your offending ME PERSONALLY AS WELL.Fight nicely, remember I work with the dude everyday and we get along verywell,hes also a friend.I can't take responsability for his actions.I told him about what goes on in here,and he said it's the same in all these EFFED up forums and thats why he doesn't come in here (then).For his own reasons and I will not speak for him,He felt the need to come in here and lay rath.Instead of fighting fire with fire,try the softer aproach,hell it might all wash itself out in the end.......I'm counting on it.
    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 12,950
    edited July 2002
    Dan,

    Agreed in your case. Truce has been called and look forward to moving on.

    As far as your partner, he is the one that started his own fiasco so as far as I'm concerned, he is the one that owes the forum an apology. I prefer to discuss things in a civil manner but if he wants to be an ****, well, that just won't pass. ESPECIALLY since he can't seem to string together a coherent post or stay on topic. It would seem that he wants to insult us and dazzle us with terms that he read somewhere.

    Having said all that, I would like a civil response to anything I posted. If I am wrong fine, as I did with the CS400 thing, I'll admit it. But in this case with the voltage thing, I'm not wrong. I've got the hard data and LOTS of testing on my side.

    Troy
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,384
    edited July 2002
    TroyD,
    Thanks cool dude.Moving on would be nice.
    As far as Liv4fam just reading stuff somewhere,not to defend him,but he knows his **** very well.He has been doing this for a very long time.He was been factory trained countless times.
    I know you guys don't want to hear this but he doesn't talk out his butt hole,not emplyng anything on anyone.He might piss all of you off very well, but a bullshitter he's not,my partner/friend or not.
    He comes acroos really wild and strong,I read his posts.His points and questions have all been experience,not running around the internet trying to find facts/fiction or whatever.Credit he has,hes been involved in some of the biggest job this Industry has to offer.The entire voltage thing as I posted before is alittle part of some of the experience we both underwent.The ability to drive a amp to it's fullest potential was not met with receivers we have used in the past,nor was sound quality.
    TroyD.....your a 2 channel guy,maybe not an expert but you have plenty of experience with pre amps to realise that maybe not looking at it from a voltage standpoint but from a sound quality and dynamic standpoint, there is plenty of differences between preamps.Powered or passive.You see in my and I'm sure ours,sound quality is what real world knowledge.Spec's are good to get going but when the spec says this and the sound quality isn't there when It should be,how do you explain that??
    Allright with that being said,
    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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