BW802D with good electronics is an ANIMAL!
Joey_V
Posts: 8,552
Man....
I'm on a new rotation at the moment and I was out in a suburban hospital doing my medicine thing and this town is pretty ritzy and upper-middle class... I found a nice little audio shop on the side of the road on my way home from the hospital. I decided to wait out the traffic and I went inside.
Inside, I was greeted by some 45 year old guy, or someone atleast twice my age. I asked to see his reference gear. He brought me to the reference room with all the good stuff. I saw a pair of the BW 802D sitting next to some Thiels, Magnepans and Gallos. I wanted to hear the 802D this time around, powered by electronics above the Rotel league.
I asked to listen, he asked me which components I wanted to hear it with. I pointed to the Class CA2200 2 channel amp, the Ayre C5xe CDP, the Ayre K5xe pre... each of which are $5000 a piece. He hooked up all Transparent cables and wires throughout the entire system and hooked everything to Transparent power conditioners.
He fired up the now $40K system.... I sat down.... and I was stunned.
ABSOLUTELY gorgeous sounding from top to bottom. Coherence was great! Imaging was great! Overall tone was superb! I hadnt heard the BW802D sound this great ever... and I know it was the components/electronics running them which made it so. I had this feeling sitting there... that if I had this system, I'd be done. It was over. I looked at the guy and I asked him, "I suppose this is about as good as it gets for reproduced music, huh?"
He replied, "Pretty much... until you go to the ultra-fi products."
Soundstage was deep, instruments were individualized without smear. Vocals had very little if any fuzz around the focus, and the background pallete was as dark as can be. Very black backgrounds, very good transient dynamics, very good imaging throughout. You just had to be there. It was truly an experience, otherwise, I wouldnt waste my time typing up this thread.
Anyway, I had the salesguy switch the Ayre CDP to the Classe CDP202 reference CDP and it completely ruined the sound of the system... nothing like the Ayre.
Now I know why the Ayre C5xe is considered by many as one of the (if not, the) best CDP on the planet without getting into the insane money regions.
I wish I took pics.. but I will leave you guys with some stock pics of the individual components for some eye candy action!
Just wanted to let you guys know... BW *can* sound great.... as long as you treat them right and give them the components they deserve. Expensive? Yes. Good sounding? You bet.
Ayre C5xe CDP
Ayre K5xe Preamp
Classe CA2200
BW 802D
I'm on a new rotation at the moment and I was out in a suburban hospital doing my medicine thing and this town is pretty ritzy and upper-middle class... I found a nice little audio shop on the side of the road on my way home from the hospital. I decided to wait out the traffic and I went inside.
Inside, I was greeted by some 45 year old guy, or someone atleast twice my age. I asked to see his reference gear. He brought me to the reference room with all the good stuff. I saw a pair of the BW 802D sitting next to some Thiels, Magnepans and Gallos. I wanted to hear the 802D this time around, powered by electronics above the Rotel league.
I asked to listen, he asked me which components I wanted to hear it with. I pointed to the Class CA2200 2 channel amp, the Ayre C5xe CDP, the Ayre K5xe pre... each of which are $5000 a piece. He hooked up all Transparent cables and wires throughout the entire system and hooked everything to Transparent power conditioners.
He fired up the now $40K system.... I sat down.... and I was stunned.
ABSOLUTELY gorgeous sounding from top to bottom. Coherence was great! Imaging was great! Overall tone was superb! I hadnt heard the BW802D sound this great ever... and I know it was the components/electronics running them which made it so. I had this feeling sitting there... that if I had this system, I'd be done. It was over. I looked at the guy and I asked him, "I suppose this is about as good as it gets for reproduced music, huh?"
He replied, "Pretty much... until you go to the ultra-fi products."
Soundstage was deep, instruments were individualized without smear. Vocals had very little if any fuzz around the focus, and the background pallete was as dark as can be. Very black backgrounds, very good transient dynamics, very good imaging throughout. You just had to be there. It was truly an experience, otherwise, I wouldnt waste my time typing up this thread.
Anyway, I had the salesguy switch the Ayre CDP to the Classe CDP202 reference CDP and it completely ruined the sound of the system... nothing like the Ayre.
Now I know why the Ayre C5xe is considered by many as one of the (if not, the) best CDP on the planet without getting into the insane money regions.
I wish I took pics.. but I will leave you guys with some stock pics of the individual components for some eye candy action!
Just wanted to let you guys know... BW *can* sound great.... as long as you treat them right and give them the components they deserve. Expensive? Yes. Good sounding? You bet.
Ayre C5xe CDP
Ayre K5xe Preamp
Classe CA2200
BW 802D
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R
Post edited by Joey_V on
Comments
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I want the Ayre CDP.
Now.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Good stuff. My reference rig, one day. Classe and B&W are a solid match - when was that CDP made? I need to get 'up' on B&W, but last I heard, when they bought Classe, they also stole Mark Levinson's best digital guy - so we should be seeing something hardcore from Classe on the dig front soon, if not now.
I'd put Ayre almost, if not right up there with YBA as far as hardcore, regardless of price. The **** they do in the power supply is unheard of in 'mainstream' hifi.
Cheers,
RussCheck your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service. -
Russ,RuSsMaN wrote:Good stuff. My reference rig, one day. Classe and B&W are a solid match - when was that CDP made? I need to get 'up' on B&W, but last I heard, when they bought Classe, they also stole Mark Levinson's best digital guy - so we should be seeing something hardcore from Classe on the dig front soon, if not now.
I'd put Ayre almost, if not right up there with YBA as far as hardcore, regardless of price. The **** they do in the power supply is unheard of in 'mainstream' hifi.
Cheers,
Russ
The Classe CDP202 is their current reference CDP. No slouch by any means, but the Ayre is the king (atleast in that audition). No comparison and if anyone in that room told me otherwise, they dont deserve to be an audiophile. I would gladly pay the $6000 they charge for the Ayre rather than the $5000 the charge for the Classe 202 CDP.
Though... the Classe does have the edge on looks, no contest there.
JoeyMagico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
BTW, also heard the $5000 Magnepan 3.6....
PHENOMENAL speaker out of the same electronics as the BW802D. The value on the Magnepans have to be up there, you get so much for the money. I dont think Martin Logan makes anything that pound for pound beats out the Magenpan at the 3.6 level.
And I'm an ML fanboy.
JoeyMagico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
You should lug your Summits over there for an audition Joey.:D
MikeModwright SWL 9.0 SE (6Sons Audio Thunderbird PC with Oyaide 004 terminations)
Consonance cd120T
Consonance Cyber 800 tube monoblocks (6Sons Audio Thunderbird PC's with Oyaide 004 terminations)
Usher CP 6311
Phillips Pronto TS1000 Universal Remote -
Nothing like finding a place like that on a road trip. I stopped at one in Norman ,OK. to waste some time. Same deal. Classe' and B&W.
I was quite thrilled with the Classe' sound. Now all I have to do is rob a bank."The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
The 802D is THE speaker that I want to own.
Classe amps are the shiznit as well.
BDTI plan for the future. - F1Nut -
This is a great system what many want to have. Are you going to get them shortly, Joey_V?
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Hahaha! Not at the moment. I'm happy with my system but hearing that BW system has shown me how good a conventional dynamic speaker can be. I also appreciated what true hi-end source can do.haimoc wrote:This is a great system what many want to have. Are you going to get them shortly, Joey_V?
I will buy the Ayre c5xe cdp... one way or another.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
I guess what I was kind of getting at Joey is that maybe those electronics could sound just as good or even better using your speakers as well. Maybe it is the electronics that you were so impressed with and not necessarily the 802D's.
MikeModwright SWL 9.0 SE (6Sons Audio Thunderbird PC with Oyaide 004 terminations)
Consonance cd120T
Consonance Cyber 800 tube monoblocks (6Sons Audio Thunderbird PC's with Oyaide 004 terminations)
Usher CP 6311
Phillips Pronto TS1000 Universal Remote -
That's right, Mike.Midnite Mick wrote:I guess what I was kind of getting at Joey is that maybe those electronics could sound just as good or even better using your speakers as well. Maybe it is the electronics that you were so impressed with and not necessarily the 802D's.
Mike
The equipment on the Most part is better than what I have or am willing to have at this point in time. Amps were probably equal, but source/pre/interconnects/wire is hands-down better. Would certainly love to hear the Summits ran by the gear in that room, no doubt.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Joey_V wrote:...
Now I know why the Ayre C5xe is considered by many as one of the (if not, the) best CDP on the planet without getting into the insane money regions.
Not trying to derail, but...I think 99.99% of the American population would consider $5k for a CD player "insane money." Most people can't even fathom $5k for a complete system, let alone 40k. Its all perspective. I paid less than $2500 for each of my first two cars, and they were not POS, the were both considered pretty nice for a teenager at the time (back in the 80s).
Truthfully, all of us are a bit insane for spending this much money/time on our systems.For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore... -
I never listen to Ayre c5xe yet, but Ayre 7e or Cary 303/300 and Arcam 33 all deliver excelent sound. I am sure if you get Ayre c5xe, you won't be disappointed. Congratulation on your finding new excelent CD player.
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billbillw wrote:Truthfully, all of us are a bit insane for spending this much money/time on our systems.
Probably the most cogent statement ever made on this forum."Just because youre offended doesnt mean youre right." - Ricky Gervais
"For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase
"Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson -
Some buy $25k Harleys, $10k outdoor kitchens, trips to foriegn countries.billbillw wrote:Not trying to derail, but...I think 99.99% of the American population would consider $5k for a CD player "insane money." Most people can't even fathom $5k for a complete system, let alone 40k. Its all perspective. I paid less than $2500 for each of my first two cars, and they were not POS, the were both considered pretty nice for a teenager at the time (back in the 80s).
Truthfully, all of us are a bit insane for spending this much money/time on our systems.
Everyone is nuts, just in a different way! Toys are toys.
Note:
My first car was $100, and its still on the road today. I saw it when I was back home on vacation. I doubt I could afford to buy it back."The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
sucks2beme wrote:Some buy $25k Harleys, $10k outdoor kitchens, trips to foriegn countries.
Everyone is nuts, just in a different way! Toys are toys.
Note:
My first car was $100, and its still on the road today. I saw it when I was back home on vacation. I doubt I could afford to buy it back.
Not really a fair comparision.
The thing is, $25k for a Harley is nowhere near what a 5k CD Player is in proportion to the baseline (most inxpensive) available models. In other words, the most inexpensive motorcycle you could buy new would be somewhere in the $5k range (correct me if I'm wrong). The most inexpensive CD player would be around $120 (if you don't include all the ultracheap chinese made DVD players that sell at Walmart/Frys/etc).
So, a 25k Harley is only 5 times as expensive as the most inexpensive solution. A 5k CD player is almost 50 times as expensive as the most inexpensive option.For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore... -
billbillw wrote:Not really a fair comparision.
The thing is, $25k for a Harley is nowhere near what a 5k CD Player is in proportion to the baseline (most inxpensive) available models. In other words, the most inexpensive motorcycle you could buy new would be somewhere in the $5k range (correct me if I'm wrong). The most inexpensive CD player would be around $120 (if you don't include all the ultracheap chinese made DVD players that sell at Walmart/Frys/etc).
So, a 25k Harley is only 5 times as expensive as the most inexpensive solution. A 5k CD player is almost 500 times as expensive as the most inexpensive option.
The Harley is always just a toy. Most of us old guys buy one just because we want one. Same thing here. The point is: something gives us joy. Logic has no meaning on this subject.
I gave up all my vices many years ago. No smokes, no booze.
$5k is not cheap, but unlike a trip to some exotic location, it will continue to give us joy for years to come. I auditioned almost the same system Joey did.
That is a setup that could last me to my deathbed! Then my heirs could go
drop it on EBAY!"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
Not 500x... More like 40x based on your numbers.billbillw wrote:So, a 25k Harley is only 5 times as expensive as the most inexpensive solution. A 5k CD player is almost 500 times as expensive as the most inexpensive option.
Take for instance the car. You can buy a kia for less than $10k, or you can get a Lamborghini Murcielago at close to $400k - that's also a 40x ratio.
Its all relative. Can you and are you willing to afford it, is the better question. I don't think it's as simple as lumping people as crazy or not.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
I'm completely and utterly at peace with the indisputable fact that I am quite insane...
just ask my pet giant.. he'll tell yaI never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore -
Joey_V wrote:Not 500x... More like 40x based on your numbers.
Take for instance the car. You can buy a kia for less than $10k, or you can get a Lamborghini Murcielago at close to $400k - that's also a 40x ratio.
Its all relative. Can you and are you willing to afford it, is the better question. I don't think it's as simple as lumping people as crazy or not.
Oops, that was a typo, meant almost 50 times (rounding up for comparisons sake to show the order of magnitude).
Actually, a Murcielago's street price is somewhere around $300k for 2006.:p
Anywho, I would venture to say that most who buy a Murcielago are a bit insane too. Either that, or they are so stinking rich, that the true value of money has been lost to them. I doubt anyone on this forum will be buying a Lambo anytime soon, although they have been among my dream cars since I was a teen and the Coutach was battling with the Testarossa for supercar supremacy.For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore... -
It all comes down to prioritizing your funds. Some people put motorcylces and cars as a high priority. Others put audio.
I have had friends say I am stupid for spending what I do on audio so I can "watch movies at home". They say they watch movies at home as well and don't have to spend near as much.
Of course they are saying this as they lower their $20,000 bass boat into the water.
Its all what toys you are into and how you justify spending your disposable income. Since it is our hobby we obsess over details of audio more than the average person, but I doubt we spend more on our hobby than others (with similar disposable incomes) do on theirs.
MichaelMains.............Polk LSi15 (Cherry)
Center............Polk LSiC (Crossover upgraded)
Surrounds.......Polk LSi7 (Gloss Black - wood sides removed and crossovers upgraded)
Subwoofers.....SVS 25-31 CS+ and PC+ (both 20hz tune)
Pre\Pro...........NAD T163 (Modded with LM4562 opamps)
Amplifier.........Cinepro 3k6 (6-channel, 500wpc@4ohms) -
Well said Michael!
My wife was telling me all the "crap" she was getting over the weekend when her parents were over. They couldn't understand why there were more speakers in the house? They seem to always complain about something I buy, I told them once if they didn't like it they could always leave? : ) My in-laws really annoy me!
Mike -
McLoki wrote:It all comes down to prioritizing your funds. Some people put motorcylces and cars as a high priority. Others put audio.
I have had friends say I am stupid for spending what I do on audio so I can "watch movies at home". They say they watch movies at home as well and don't have to spend near as much.
Of course they are saying this as they lower their $20,000 bass boat into the water.
Its all what toys you are into and how you justify spending your disposable income. Since it is our hobby we obsess over details of audio more than the average person, but I doubt we spend more on our hobby than others (with similar disposable incomes) do on theirs.
Michael
I'm not questioning the hobby or the fact that we justify spending money on gear that most people don't give a second thought to. I was just trying to point out that $5k for a CD player probably qualifies as something we could deem insanely priced.
I'm into PLENTY of hobbies, some eat more money than others, but for every hobby, there is a minimum entry price and there is the over the top, insanely priced extremes that really are hard to justify for all but the truely obsessed/certifiable nuts.For rig details, see my profile. Nothing here anymore... -
billbillw
Yes it's extreme. I have so far avoided the big ticket items. I am best known as a cheapskate. So far, nothing I own audio wise ever cost more than $550.
That may change soon. We go listen to these systems, knowing we might never own one. Many of us have to take our joy in knowing a fellow Polkie who can buy one. After hearing a high end system, it often helps us gauge
when a more reasonable priced piece of gear will "almost" sound as good.
As they say over at the HeadFi site "sorry about your wallet!""The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." --Thomas Jefferson -
Zero wrote:You all are crazy - and I am right there with ya.
Joey - You're inate ability to not listen shows that you're already putting the right foot forward into your profession. heh. This time I will ask again, but a bit more slowley this time;
was .. . t3h .... room..... treated?
This should even take less than a few seconds to answer
Ah yes... my innate inability to listen... lol!
Ok Mr Sean, I will answer your question:
Moderately treated.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
It's all perspective. $5k isn't that much for what you get, an excellent CDP.
Oh yeah, I haven't heard a B&W speaker I liked.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Zero wrote:Joey,
Figures - he only picks up on my grammatical errors. Thanks for answering the question *tosses you a dogtreat*. haha
edit: If you ever take the opportunity to stop by this dealer again - snap some photo's. I need some recon on how these things are set-up.
I was thinking of taking some photos with my phone, but I thought the guy might think I'm weird or something so I decided against it.
*Chomps on doggy treat*Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
F1nut wrote:It's all perspective. $5k isn't that much for what you get, an excellent CDP.
Oh yeah, I haven't heard a B&W speaker I liked.
Agree with top sentences.
Regarding bottom sentence, me neither.... until this one. Electronics play a big role in taming that overly sibilant tweeter and/or making sure the speakers play to their potential. Off the Rotel Class D monoblocks, the 802D were lackluster to say the least, especially for the price they charge for the speakers. However, with this Ayre/Classe combo.. I truly sat down and was speechless for quite some time before I regained my composure and suppressed the thoughts in my head which involved stealing the speaker and/or the equipment.
I mean... do you think anyone would notice me walk out with the Ayre CDP hidden underneath my jacket?
JoeyMagico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
Joey_V wrote:I mean... do you think anyone would notice me walk out with the Ayre CDP hidden underneath my jacket?
Santa would...I never had it like this where I grew up. But I send my kids here because the fact is you go to one of the best schools in the country: Rushmore. Now, for some of you it doesn't matter. You were born rich and you're going to stay rich. But here's my advice to the rest of you: Take dead aim on the rich boys. Get them in the crosshairs and take them down. Just remember, they can buy anything but they can't buy backbone. Don't let them forget it. Thank you.Herman Blume - Rushmore -
Sibilant tweeter?
My experience with the Nautilus line has been that they will reveal imperfections upstream but they, in and of themselves aren't inherently harsh. Just my .02.
BDTI plan for the future. - F1Nut
