Wire: Pet Peeve

MSALLA

Please let me know if I'm wrong on this and it is kind of a newbie topic.
Wire companies like say Blue Jeans and other do not actually produce thier own wire. There for they must buy bulk cable from companies like carol. If this is true, whats the difference between the top audio cables and making your own. I just bought some 12-3 cable, cut 4" of sheilding from each end,cut out the ground wire, slid shrink wrap down to the end of the outside shield to finish off the cut area. Then stripped about 3/8" off the ends of the 2 12ga. inner wires and used Banana clips. 6ft. each speaker for about $9.50 each w/ the GLS banana clips off e-bay (copies of another brand I'm sure)
If I'm wrong in my opinion, please let me know.

Skynut

I think you are right. Most companies probably buy wire from wherever they like to buy it from.
Some probably have proprietary designs made just for them with certain windings they find to be the best.

I plan to make my own someday.

Dennis Gardner

Many use Belden, and some of the mid level cable companies are guys like yourself that found out that they liked to make cables and turned a hobby into a business model with the help of forums and exposure on the internet.

They provide a real service, not in producing exotic cables for sky high $$$, but a line of solid products with great value and personal guarantees and Mom & Pop service styles.

MSALLA

I saw Blue Jeans is now a Belden wire company a few min. ago. I assume it has a high strand count or something?

F1nut

Wire companies like say Blue Jeans and other do not actually produce thier own wire. There for they must buy bulk cable from companies like carol. If this is true, whats the difference between the top audio cables

Let's clear one thing up, BJ and others using Carol or Belden wire are not top audio cable companies.

TheReaper

F1nut wrote:

Let's clear one thing up, BJ and others using Carol or Belden wire are not top audio cable companies.

The "TOP" audio cable company is probably "Monster Cable"

MSALLA

F1nut wrote:

Let's clear one thing up, BJ and others using Carol or Belden wire are not top audio cable companies.

Ok I hear you but then what are the "top" companies and why should I buy there product? I have a friend who spent 1400.00 to wire a set of Martin Logan Monolith speakers and he couldn't give me a reason that made sense.

dbournival

There are a lot of people that you Do-it-yourself wires. I've tried it with less than great results, others are very happy with theirs. If you are happy with the results, don't worry about it. The manufacture of the bulk cable matters little, it is to what specifications they are made to. Remember Ford motor company builds ther Ford Focus as well as the Aston Martin DB9.

mantis

Basically your buying what us Pro's make in the field. Which is good quality cables at a good price. Sure you can do alot better with buying higher end cables but your system has to be worthy of having such high priced cables.

Most average to above average systems will play great with Beldon level made cables. For the money you can't go wrong man. If saving money on cables is your game, then go for it. They will not suck.

Dan

F1nut

The "TOP" audio cable company is probably "Monster Cable"

Yeah, right! :rolleyes:

I have a friend who spent 1400.00 to wire a set of Martin Logan Monolith speakers and he couldn't give me a reason that made sense.

Better sound doesn't make sense?

ParkLinPolk

i dont know what your system is like, but no need to spend alot of money if it isnt high end. i have mid lvl 16 gauge cable becuase thats what i can afford and it goes well with my system.

MSALLA

F1nut wrote:

Yeah, right! :rolleyes:



Better sound doesn't make sense?

I never herd them before the ultra expensive wire, so I don't really know if they made an improvment.
Still, no one has said highend wire is better because.............and it may be better but I'd like to hear some facts. Do they use a more pure copper? Anything?

F1nut

Seriously, the only facts are what sounds best to your ears. If you don't have the gear to go with the cables, then you probably won't notice a difference.

MSALLA

That I'm with you on that and my ears can hear a better speaker but I bet they have been damaged enough to not hear minor changes. Still if "top"end wire is better there has to be a physical reason it is.If you were a salesmen for one of these companies what would your pitch be? If you told a guy "they sound better" he would ask why. What would your answer be? None of this really matters, but no has ever been able to give me an answer on this.

F1nut

Here's some reading for you.

http://www.mitcables.com/publications.asp

MSALLA

Ok, you got me. I never thought of the filter aspect of the wire.Funny that in Brisson's interview, when asked if anyone else was looking in to the wire as a filter at that time (early 80's) he stated that so was DR. POLK.
The only problem now is I may want to try a set. It also makes sense about winding the wire at different ratios along the wire to control impedence. I guess I was stuck with the old school thought that all that matterd was low resistence.

Lsi9

I just purchased Blue Jeans interconnects a few months ago. I swapped out the liberty wire ICs a custom installer gave me a couple of years ago. The liberty cable they used was decent but it was pretty muchput together with no insulation where you could see frayed wire end popping out of the rca jacks.
I purchased BJ because I had no time nor patience to learn how to make wires myself, and BJ sells wire and connectors if you are inclined to DIY.
I got the 5 wires and they came w/ a nylon sleeve to hold all of them, they looked great and actually did sound better than what I had before.

SCompRacer

F1nut wrote:

Seriously, the only facts are what sounds best to your ears. If you don't have the gear to go with the cables, then you probably won't notice a difference.

+1 to what Jesse said. You need to try and decide for yourself.

Harmonic Technology claims to make their own wire using a special process. I don't know that the extra .029997 extra copper they claim their cable has makes that much difference, but they sound better in my current system than other cables I tried or owned.

I have a friend who spent 1400.00 to wire a set of Martin Logan Monolith speakers and he couldn't give me a reason that made sense.

I would have expected they would say because it sounds better than it did before.

hearingimpared

MSALLA wrote:

I never herd them before the ultra expensive wire, so I don't really know if they made an improvment.
Still, no one has said highend wire is better because.............and it may be better but I'd like to hear some facts. Do they use a more pure copper? Anything?

Read this paper on cables it will tells why highend wire ISN'T better because ..................................

http://sound.westhost.com/cables.htm

The experience I have with cables stems from tests 15 years ago so the only way I can help here is to post research I have done or currently doing to get a baseline system installed in my new house.

Joe

hearingimpared

F1nut wrote:

Here's some reading for you.

http://www.mitcables.com/publications.asp

Thanks for more reading and research on cabling.

I was reading the "Installing and Burning In" section. They are treating cabling like it is a piece of electronic equipment. Are cable designs that intricate that the cable physics itself becomes intelligent like an amplifier network? I mean it seems to me the larger the gauge with speaker cables the less resistance to the electron flow, anything more than that seems like fluff except of course common sense things like keeping speaker cables away from power cords and things like that. The same things with ICs except you want very good shielding. Of course there are capacitance issues but that would be only with loooooonnnnnnggg cable runs. I don't see how 10' speaker cables or 1 or 2 meter ICs would have problems in this area.

I know I obsess over cabling, ICs & speakers when reading reviews about them or company sales literature but I always come back to what I've written above. Then I come across websites like Elliot Sounds and he confirms my basic electronic knowledge suspicions.

Joe

SCompRacer

hearingimpared wrote:

They are treating cabling like it is a piece of electronic equipment.

The box contains a passive network so it is more than just wire.

hearingimpared

Are all high end cables passive networks? I know some are battery powered so it makes sense that they would work like a piece of electronic gear.

F1nut

Read this paper on cables it will tells why highend wire ISN'T better because ..................................

http://sound.westhost.com/cables.htm

So, following his logic a small transistor radio should be all that is needed for high fidelity sound. :rolleyes:

hearingimpared

F1nut wrote:

So, following his logic a small transistor radio should be all that is needed for high fidelity sound. :rolleyes:

I agree that some of his philosophy is extreme but in theory a lot of it makes sense. This obessession is based on a lot of subjectivity and I think that is what makes it great.:)

SCompRacer

hearingimpared wrote:

Are all high end cables passive networks? I know some are battery powered so it makes sense that they would work like a piece of electronic gear.

I was referring to the box on the speaker and IC cables, like the Shotgun series.

Like these.
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19892&d=1160283924

SCompRacer

hearingimpared wrote:

I agree that some of his philosophy is extreme but in theory a lot of it makes sense. This obessession is based on a lot of subjectivity and I think that is what makes it great.:)

How bout we trade then. Your VPI MKIV for my Rega Planar 2.:eek:

hearingimpared

SCompRacer wrote:

I was referring to the box on the speaker and IC cables, like the Shotgun series.

Like these.
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19892&d=1160283924

I've read further and notice that MIT refers to their "cables" not as cables but as MIT Audio Interface Networks. I have asked questions about cabling before and a major consensus has been that “you can’t go wrong with MIT.” Are the less expensive MIT cables “Audio Interface Networks?” I can’t seem to get a feel for that on their website. Perhaps I’m missing something and need to dig a little more.

hearingimpared

SCompRacer wrote:

How bout we trade then. Your VPI MKIV for my Rega Planar 2.:eek:

Point well taken:o , subjectivity rules!!! My problem is that I have an assoc. degree in electronics and sometimes think things through in all theory. I have heard differences in cabling in the past but we are talking the difference between factory junk cables and home made or well shielded ICs. Also between 20 gauge crap versus 10 gauge cooper twisted speaker wires.:)

Fifteen years ago I had purchased, "The Hose" (anyone remember these? they looked like a garden hose) speaker cable which were some ridiculous price like $150-200/ft and heard a huge difference when attached from two NAD 2200 PEs and SDA/SRSs but it made the highs really harsh even on vinyl recordings. I think I still have them somewhere in a storage bin. I was a dealer at the time and paid like $15 / ft for them so I wasn't so upset about keeping them and trying them in other rigs I had at the time.

SCompRacer

hearingimpared wrote:

I've read further and notice that MIT refers to their "cables" not as cables but as MIT Audio Interface Networks. I have asked questions about cabling before and a major consensus has been that “you can’t go wrong with MIT.” Are the less expensive MIT cables “Audio Interface Networks?” I can’t seem to get a feel for that on their website. Perhaps I’m missing something and need to dig a little more.

The MIT site can be difficult to navigate. Once you get to Audio/Interconnects, you'll see six choices. Pick Shotgun, the middle line known for the best bang for the buck. You have S1, 2 or 3 options. Read the details and they tell you what the articulation point is. The S1 has the lowest point, and in my experience with an active crossover and speakers that reach to 22Hz provide better bass than the S3.

hearingimpared

Thanks Rich!

Sorry MSALLA I didn't mean to hijack your thread.

Joe

MSALLA

hearingimpared wrote:

Thanks Rich!

Sorry MSALLA I didn't mean to hijack your thread.

Joe

I'm just on here trying to learn some things. You guys have helped alot so don't worry about it. I didn't see it as a hijack anyway.