lsi-9 performance

swchma

This is not a question,but a compliment. I just hooked my 9's to a denon 3805, 120 W reciever. From all the comments from the "pros" out there, I am confident that my system is fine without turning it up to full power. The dispertion and imaging of these speakers is amazing. Running them on "stereo" I am getting full round music. I have no regrets on this purchase, great item.

chip1

try them on a seperate amp and you will hear imaging and dynamics that will knock your socks off.

BrianV

swchma wrote:

This is not a question,but a compliment. I just hooked my 9's to a denon 3805, 120 W reciever. From all the comments from the "pros" out there, I am confident that my system is fine without turning it up to full power. The dispertion and imaging of these speakers is amazing. Running them on "stereo" I am getting full round music. I have no regrets on this purchase, great item.

Good to hear. I also fell in love with my LSi9s on my Pioneer Elite 130w receiver. I also listen in stereo mode since it by far sounds the best.

Per the comments of everyone on here, I spent a small fortune on a Rotel amp. I haven't REALLY cranked it yet but I've listened to it quite loud and haven't noticed any difference, but at least I have the piece of mind of knowing it'll never clip. I haven't gotten the g/f out of the house for me to really run it through its paces. I'm not a super audiophile so maybe there's something I'm not noticing.

organ

Schwma,
Cool. I love my LSi9 too. Like others have mentioned, they will benifit with an external amp, even at low volume.

Brian,
Are you using the receiver as a pre? If you are, the Rotel was pretty much just amplifying the sound signature of the pre section in your Pioneer. That's why you haven't noticed any difference. But, the Pioneer Elite stuff are really good.

Joey_V

If you're using the receiver as a pre... you're not getting anything.

However, even as a pre, you should notice difference.... did you examine certain aspects of the musical reproduction?

cfrizz

On the contrary Joey, even using the Denon as a pre, a distinct difference can be noted by using a separate amp! Greater clarity at a lower volume across the board from vocals to instruments. Better separation of instruments, as well as being able to crank it when the mood hits!

Using a separate amp is not just about being able to play it louder & not having to worry about clipping.

Joey_V

Cathy,
I should have said, if using a receiver as a pre, you're not pushing the amp to its potential.

Thanks for catching that.

Joey

BrianV

Wow, everyone said I should hook up my elite to a "REAL" amp via the pre-outs, and now people are saying there will be no difference.

You guys have some serious issues. Maybe I'm not a super audiophile like you guys, but I can't detect any noticeable difference pre and post amplifier except for peace of mind. That and the Rotel hardly gets warm where as the Pioneer was getting burning hot after driving the speakers.

Like previously stated, I'm not a super audiophile, but how else would I hook it up except for pre-outs?

Amplifying the pre-outs completely contradicts what everyone was telling me earlier. Before I got the Rotel, people were telling me the problem was just supplying enough consistent power which would cause clipping and possible sound distortion when crossing frequencies. That makes sense to me, but now people are saying that I'm amplifying a crappy pre-out signal. No one ever said the sound quality problems before was related to the recevier's processing, it was about power supply. I've bypassed the power supply of the receiver completely.

Even if there is a difference, it's so insignificant to me that it'd be a shot in the dark using an A-B test. It's probably just me. Like I said I'm new to this and have had mediocre to subpar equipment for the majority of my life. I just recently jumped into this whole turkey and put a Monitor system in about 9 months ago. I since upgraded to the LSIs. I'm relatively young, 24 and feel my ears are probably better than most of yours which perplexes me even more. My dad and older co-workers have much less sensitive hearing due to age, and judging by your audio habits you all have probably less than average hearing, hehe (I'm on the same track). I strongly believe that there might be some placebo effect symptoms evident on this board.

Joey_V

Dude, relax. Before saying that we have issues, please consider that you are new to this and you dont have the experience we do. You come to this board and ask us our opinion and since it doesnt "vibe" with what you think is real, you insult us? Hahahaha....

BTW, we dont have worse hearing than you either.... believe me as I'm the same age as you.

Thing is, you have to realize that your preamp has the sound signature of your receiver and having an amp bypass the internal amps will indeed give you better sound, but it is not to its potential. That's all we're trying to say.

Hey, no one is making you buy these things... if you dont like it, dont buy it.

Dont come in here and insult us.

danger boy

BrianV wrote:

Wow, everyone said I should hook up my elite to a "REAL" amp via the pre-outs, and now people are saying there will be no difference.

You guys have some serious issues. Maybe I'm not a super audiophile like you guys, but I can't detect any noticeable difference pre and post amplifier except for peace of mind. That and the Rotel hardly gets warm where as the Pioneer was getting burning hot after driving the speakers.

Like previously stated, I'm not a super audiophile, but how else would I hook it up except for pre-outs?

Amplifying the pre-outs completely contradicts what everyone was telling me earlier. Before I got the Rotel, people were telling me the problem was just supplying enough consistent power which would cause clipping and possible sound distortion when crossing frequencies. That makes sense to me, but now people are saying that I'm amplifying a crappy pre-out signal. No one ever said the sound quality problems before was related to the recevier's processing, it was about power supply. I've bypassed the power supply of the receiver completely.

Even if there is a difference, it's so insignificant to me that it'd be a shot in the dark using an A-B test. It's probably just me. Like I said I'm new to this and have had mediocre to subpar equipment for the majority of my life. I just recently jumped into this whole turkey and put a Monitor system in about 9 months ago. I since upgraded to the LSIs. I'm relatively young, 24 and feel my ears are probably better than most of yours which perplexes me even more. My dad and older co-workers have much less sensitive hearing due to age, and judging by your audio habits you all have probably less than average hearing, hehe (I'm on the same track). I strongly believe that there might be some placebo effect symptoms evident on this board.

Dude.. you're right.. we all suck. You have better hearing and you know better than everyone else on here. We should be learning from you.

What advice can you give us that will make our systems better? :rolleyes:

Joey_V

BrianV wrote:

It's probably just me.

Yes. It's just you.

cfrizz

Brian, if you bothered to read my post, that is NOT what I said. You should hear a difference. BTW, what Rotel did you get?

I wouldn't classify myself as an audiophile, I'm just someone who has taken an interest in music all of my life & I know what to listen for.

It is the small details in the music that tell you whether or not a piece of equipment has made a difference. But if you don't know what details exist in the music you play & just hear sounds then you will never know what changes you should be listening for!

chip1

brianv,

i used a b&k st-3140 with a sony-5es reciever's preout's and there really wasn't much of a sound difference and your right about the reciever getting really hot because they can't handle the 4ohm load from the lsi9's.
i was able to fry eggs on my reciever that's how hot it used to get.
i then went and purchased a b&k reference 50 and then i started hearing things from redbook cd's that i wasn't hearing before at all.

know i have upgraded my system to the following pieces:
bryston pre/pro sp1.7
bryston 4bsst 2-ch. amp with the polk lsi9's
b&k ref. 200.3 for my front center speaker polk lsci and my polk fx300i L&R surrounds
b&k ref. 2220.2 for my L&R back channels c245i speakers
sony 555es sacd player
denon 2910 dvd player for video only
monster avs-2000 voltage stablizer with upgraded ps audio power port outlets
monster htps-7000 power line conditioner with upgraded ps audio power port outlets
scientific atlanta 3250 hdtv cable box
cardas power cords & nordost interconnects & speaker cables
one pair of nordost spm innterconnects for my 2 channel listening from my sony 555es player.
universal remote control "aeros" controls 5 of my pieces awesome remote especially for the price that i got it for.

andyisc00l

wow I'm not taking brians side but you guys have too much time on your hands... :-)

Midnite Mick

When I first bought a new system I just had a regular Pioneer AVR that I then amped with an Adcom 5503 (had lsi15') and in all honesty I did not experience a huge difference at the time. (just a little more authoritave bass). The problem however is using an AVR for 2 channel. You could pick up pretty much ANY used 2 channel pre amp and then you will see what the Rotel is bringing to the table.

Mike

Holydoc

Though I do not own the LSi's, the big difference I heard with my Home Theatre system when I connected a large amp was that the surround around speakers came alive. Without knowing it, I was draining all the power from my receiver to power my front RTi12's. This gave very little power left for my other speakers which caused me to miss most of the action. Once I hooked up the big amp, all those sounds I could not hear before were appearing magically from all around me. Funny thing was that I did not even know I was missing all that sound until I bought an amp.

Now if I had just had a two channel system (i.e. only had the RTi12's hooked up to my receiver) would I have heard a difference? With my ears, I would say NO. My receiver seems to pump plenty of power to my RTi12's without the use of a amp at the listening levels I use for music. Of course I am talking about my RTi12's with the previous flagship Onkyo. This may not (and probably does not) apply to the LSi's which are a totally different animal. The only way to tell for sure is to try it and see if it makes a difference to you.

lanion

Well, come on, lets be honest here. BrainV is happy with his system, which sounds like a very good setup.

Now, he comes to an audio forum where a lot of people have many thousands of posts. When you have so many people so interested in the small details, and then you have them discuss the small details over several years, then the subtle characteristics you have to actively listen for become the most important characteristics on the forum. There is nothing wrong with that if the audio game is your hobby, since then the pursuit of the perfect system is what in enjoyable. If, on the the other hand, the goal of having a decent system is what is enjoyable, then an audio forum is not a place where you should spend any time beyond getting general recommendations for products and their use.

organ

wtf? People were trying to help you out here and you come back and throw a dirty sock at us. Yeah, you have superior hearing. Trash your LSi and buy Bose.

Do you know what an amplifier does? It AMPLIFIES. That's it! Feed it dirty signal, and it will amplify dirty signal. Yes, you will get more power without clipping. But the sound signature of your pre is still there.

Audio5oh

Is is safe to say that the Denon 3806 receiver can handle the LSi9's, LSiC Center Channel, LC60i's In-ceiling speakers and PSW505 sub? Like Brian & Schwma mentioned, a Pioneer Elite 130w receiver and Denon pretty much does the job. I plan to buy the Denon 3806 to power my Polk speakers, but I don't have enough funds for an amplifier at this time. Is a separate amp really necessary?

cfrizz

Welcome Audio5oh!

No it is not safe to use that Denon all by itself with a full load of LSI's! As for taking into consideration what Brian said, you obviously missed these 2 threads after he made his proclamations in this thread.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45029
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45235

He may be happy for right now, but I still think he is going to find his speakers clipping from insufficient power as he adds more LSI's.

Do a search here on the forum, lots of people wanted to take the cheap way out & regretted it when they put their receivers into protect mode or blew out a tweeter in their speakers!

Be patient, keep saving & get no less than a 200wpc 5 channel amplifier to power your LSI's!

Audio5oh

Cfrizz,
Where can I buy a cheap 200wpc 5 channel amplifier? If you can give me ideas on a good quality brand amplifier for a reasonable price, i'd appreciate it. If in fact I get an amplifier, then can I get away with buying a lower priced receiver than the Denon 3806? Thanks for the input.

ohskigod

check outlawaudio.com. 5 channel amp, plenty of beef to handle the LSi for relativly little dough. (there is a 125 watt model and a 200 watt model, look to the 200 watt model budget permitting) that 200 watt model will actually do 300 watts in to the LSi's 4 ohm load. That juice will be plenty to get the job done well, and safely at the higher volumes (without clipping easily)

if that is still over budget, start looking to the used market. I went the multiple 2 channel amp route (see my sig). brands on my fav used list: Rotel, Parasound, Carver, Anthem. search around here for other's favorites, I know I'm missing some.

cstpeter

Browse through the Audiogon listings for used multi-channel amps. I agree with Cathy and ohskigod that 200 watts is preferable (when I had LSI9's, I upgraded from the Denon 3806 to a Rotel 200x2 and was very impressed), but I don't think 200 is written in stone--any quality amp over 100 watts should be an improvement over an AVR.

http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/fsb.pl?ampsmult

Good luck!

MSALLA

I can't wait to get my Lsi 9's after the holidays. I have the 7's as the mains now and after the M40's I had it made a huge difference. Can't swing the speakers and amp before christmas shopping so I will have to wait.
I hear all the people on the site about running them all off the AVR and was thinking about doing that also. But if you think about what the power really dose aside from the volume, I think I would be missing the full sound of the speaker. Pushing and STOPPING the driver takes power. The more power you have the better and faster it will do that resulting in a more accurate sound.

cfrizz

Ohskigod & cstpeter have answered your first 2 questions quite well. As for the 3rd, yes you can definately buy a lower priced Denon since all of the power will be taken care of by the amplifier.

Bear in mind, that GOOD QUALITY amps don't come cheap which is why they are good! Outlaw Audio represents good bang for the buck new or used. All others you should look to get used on Audiogon, Ebay & keep an eye out here on the club for a good deal.

For me 200wpc IS set in stone when trying to drive the LSI series or for any other good quality speakers. You get what you pay for & if you go cheap your speakers won't be able to show you what they can really do without lots of good quality power behind them.

So don't be afraid to save more money, take your time & excercise patience to get what you really want!

Audio5oh wrote:

Cfrizz,
Where can I buy a cheap 200wpc 5 channel amplifier? If you can give me ideas on a good quality brand amplifier for a reasonable price, i'd appreciate it. If in fact I get an amplifier, then can I get away with buying a lower priced receiver than the Denon 3806? Thanks for the input.

Audio5oh

Thanks everyone for the input. Cfrizz, you think mixing the LSi9's (mains) with the LC60i's for surrounds is a good idea? Polk says the combo, along with the LSiC center channel and PSW505 sub is a perfect setup because they are timbre matched. However, the LC60i's have a recommended amplifier power of 10-125 w/channel versus the LSi9's that have a recommended power of 20-200 w/channel. Does this make a difference when hooking up an amp?

cfrizz

It will be fine since all the speakers are LSI's! As for the difference in power, it is easier to hurt your speakers when they don't have enough power. The LSI's will take everything you can throw at it & ask for more.

All of my speakers have different amplifier power recommendations & the highest of which is 250wpc. All of my speakers are being fed 405wpc with my Sunfire & all of them love it!

So save up & get a 5 channel amp of no less than 200wpc & your speaker & you will be happy!

Audio5oh

Cfrizz,
Thanks for everything, just have two more questions. Is the Outlaw Model 7500 5-channel Balanced Amplifier what I need? Their website states the 7500 model is, "high-power five channel balanced amplifier (5 x 200W)". Outlaw has another model called the 7125 7-channel Amplifier, which is 7 channels at 125Watts each. Which is better for my particular setup?

pblanc

I had one channel of my 7125 amp go into thermal protection mode twice while driving an LSi9 at what I considered moderately loud sound levels. Interestingly, I have not had that happen since changing my front mains to LSi15s. I don't know if there might be a problem with that speaker. I am using a Yamaha receiver as a Pre/Pro.

McLoki

Audio5oh wrote:

Polk says the combo, along with the LSiC center channel and PSW505 sub is a perfect setup because they are timbre matched.

The speakers will all work fine with the same high power amp - don't worry about that.

The only thing I will add though (and this should be a different thread) is Prior to you adding a PSW505 as your preferred home theater and music sub, ask the group what sub they recommend for whatever your sub budget may be. We may suggest a 505 for you, (depending on what you want it for and your budget) but there may be other, better options for you as well.

Michael

cfrizz

You should get either the 7500 or the 7200. If you think you will go up to 7 channels get the 7200. Otherwise the 7500 will work just fine.

I don't think that the Denon is balanced so you would use regular interconnects on the 7500 to the Denon.

Audio, I really can't stress enough the importance of having a minimum of 200wpc for the LSI's! The 7125 would work, but you could run into trouble if you went too loud with the volume or there was a big explosion in a movie!

I know it cost more money, but it will cost even more if you blow out a tweeter on one of your LSI's from insufficient power.

Audio5oh wrote:

Cfrizz,
Thanks for everything, just have two more questions. Is the Outlaw Model 7500 5-channel Balanced Amplifier what I need? Their website states the 7500 model is, "high-power five channel balanced amplifier (5 x 200W)". Outlaw has another model called the 7125 7-channel Amplifier, which is 7 channels at 125Watts each. Which is better for my particular setup?