LSi9 Power Requirements?

swchma
swchma Posts: 49
edited December 2006 in Basic Hookup/Wiring Questions
Hey, I just got myself a pair of LSi9's to add to my system.

My system includes Denon 3805, Denon DVD 2910, Pair RTi8, PS-505, and CSW MC300 center.

Will my reciever be able to push the LSi's?
Does it matter that the LSi's are 4 ohms and the others are 8 ohms?
Should the LSi's be front and RTi's back?

Thanks
Post edited by swchma on
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited September 2006
    Congrats on your new speakers. Do a search on LSI's & receivers, you will find a ton of information.

    The short answer is, don't blast your speakers or you will throw your receiver into protect mode & start saving for a separate 2-7 channel amplifier to properly power your speakers.

    Also start saving to upgrade the RTI's over to LSI's. They are terribly mismatched right now.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • swchma
    swchma Posts: 49
    edited September 2006
    cfrizz, thanks for the comments but I don't think you adressed my question. The long and short of it is, I don't think I want a seperate amplifier, I am just wondering if my AVR will power the LSI's. If not, will an AVR in the range of 170 watts do it? If not again, how do I go about hooking up a seperate amplifier to push them from an AVR?

    Thanks,

    SW
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  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited September 2006
    She did answer your question, this subject with your exact receiver has come up numerous times. Use the search feature and you'll find copious amounts of info regarding your receiver, powering LSI's, and connecting a seperate amp to the 3805.
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
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  • swchma
    swchma Posts: 49
    edited September 2006
    Thanks Fran,

    How are the Bronkos doing? I tried the search but nothing comes up. What am I missing?
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  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited September 2006
    Go to the search page and use the following
    Denon + Lsi
    Do a titles only search for starters.

    Here's a link and a few I picked out.

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/search.php?searchid=460244



    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28492&highlight=Denon+3805
    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21251&highlight=Denon+3805
    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20276&highlight=Denon+3805
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
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  • swchma
    swchma Posts: 49
    edited September 2006
    To all that replyed, thanks for the great comments, You all gave me something to think about. I reseached adding an amp to my system and in doing so I discovered that I can bi-amp my 3805 to deliver 240 watts to the front speakers since I don't utilize my back surround. Given this, will I be able to push the LSI's as they should be? Thanks.
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  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited September 2006
    Maybe for a while.Your receiver simply isn't rated for output into a 4 ohm load. From page 101 of your manual...
    2 Audio section
    • Power amplifier
    Rated output:     Front: 120 W + 120 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz ~ 20 kHz with 0.05% T.H.D.)
    160 W + 160 W (6 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz with 0.7% T.H.D.)
    Center: 120 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz ~ 20 kHz with 0.05% T.H.D.)
    160 W (6 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz with 0.7% T.H.D.)
    Surround: 120 W + 120 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz ~ 20 kHz with 0.05% T.H.D.)
    160 W + 160 W (6 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz with 0.7% T.H.D.)
    Surround Back: 120 W + 120 W (8 Ω/ohms, 20 Hz ~ 20 kHz with 0.05% T.H.D.)
    160 W + 160 W (6 Ω/ohms, 1 kHz with 0.7% T.H.D.)
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
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  • frreo1
    frreo1 Posts: 73
    edited September 2006
    Frank Z brings up a very good point. A good many of today's AV recievers simply do not handle 4 ohm inputs very well. It costs extra money to design amp sections that handle 4 ohm loads. Some manufactures (such as Yamaha, Sony ES, etc) have a 4 ohm/8ohm switch on their recievers to handle this. Bottom line is, if you want to keep going with LSI, at some point, you will need a AVR that accomdates 4 ohm speakers.
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited September 2006
    Frreo1 & Swchma, I suggest you both do some serious research about the capabilities of receivers driving 4 ohm loads otherwise you are going to hurt your receivers & possibly blow out your speakers.

    Frreo you read Frank's statement all wrong. Do a search here on the forum & get the facts. I'll even repost the links he gave further up!

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/sear...earchid=460244
    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...ght=Denon+3805
    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...ght=Denon+3805
    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/show...ght=Denon+3805
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • frreo1
    frreo1 Posts: 73
    edited September 2006
    Oops, I forgot to add the word "not". I edited the post. My bad. I accidently typed it wrong.

    No, I did not read his post wrong. If you read the entire comment, it stated that he will need to get a reciever that can handle 4 ohms. Please read the entire thread before becoming critical. I'll take the hit for editing.

    Happy Listening!
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited September 2006
    Nowhere in any of Frank's comments is he recommending getting a receiver that can handle 4 ohms. He knows better. You are the only suggesting that route.

    The rest of us know that a receiver should ONLY be used as a preamp when running LSI speakers. You need separate amplification to minimize risk of damaging the speakers & getting the best out of them.

    However, it's not my equipment or money being put at risk so please do whatever you like.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • frreo1
    frreo1 Posts: 73
    edited September 2006
    cfrizz wrote:
    Nowhere in any of Frank's comments is he recommending getting a receiver that can handle 4 ohms. He knows better. You are the only suggesting that route.

    The rest of us know that a receiver should ONLY be used as a preamp when running LSI speakers. You need separate amplification to minimize risk of damaging the speakers & getting the best out of them.

    However, it's not my equipment or money being put at risk so please do whatever you like.

    You mean to imply that a Sunfire, Yamaha Z1, Z9, or a Sony DA 9000 ES receiver (as examples, there are others such as Krell. Mcintosh, etc) cannot handle 4 ohms? That is your opinion, but it is not fact. I think the engineers that make those receivers would beg to differ on your opinion. For crying out loud, the DA 9000 was demonstrated when it first came out at the trade shows with Wilson's, which are a more demanding load than the LSI's. Need to be careful about absolutes like that.

    Now if your point is the fact that LSI's need a beefy amp stage, agreed. To state that no receiver can accomplish the task is nonsense. I am sure you know better.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,668
    edited September 2006
    I spit on receivers.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited September 2006
    Yes, I agree that there are recievers that are built to handle a 4 ohm load and some of them may infact be worth the investment. Will they perform as well as a system that uses a stand alone amp? To my ears, not really. The differences to others may range from very slight to "OMG!!"
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
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  • swchma
    swchma Posts: 49
    edited September 2006
    So great, everyone has an opinion on how best to run my new LSI's. As you can infer, I am new to this so treating me like a novice is fine but that is why I am asking for help. 8 ohms vs 4 ohms??? Why are my RTI8 so much inferior to my RTI9? How can I handle both with an amp or more powerful reciever?

    Thanks, gotta piss

    SW
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,668
    edited September 2006
    swchma wrote:
    Why are my RTI8 so much inferior to my RTI9? How can I handle both with an amp or more powerful reciever?

    Thanks, gotta piss

    Your RTi8's are 8 ohm loads, your LSi9's are 4 ohm loads. 4 ohm loads are harder to drive than 8 ohm loads, so you really need an AVR or separate power amp that is rated to drive 4 ohm loads. It's got nothing to do with watts per channel. As for the suggestions that the speakers should not be used together, that would be because they are not a timbre match. The sonic signatures are different and will sound odd when used together. Making sense yet?

    I gotta take a dump now.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited September 2006
    F1nut wrote:
    . It's got nothing to do with watts per channel.

    Praise the Lord and pass the black eyed peas.

    Your word of the day is Amperage as it relates to current flow. Also you should buy some tube gear but that is another story.

    RT1
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  • swchma
    swchma Posts: 49
    edited September 2006
    All the great responses are appreciated, excpecially yours F1nut. It's reassuring to hear that the only good evaluation of systems is in a forum like this and having to be updated on your digestive system is a plus. My guess is that you were, or still are a highschool nerd with nothing to speak for in the zipper department so you comment on a blog to make up for it. AM I correct???? I thought so. Get a life.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,668
    edited September 2006
    swchma wrote:
    All the great responses are appreciated, excpecially yours F1nut. It's reassuring to hear that the only good evaluation of systems is in a forum like this and having to be updated on your digestive system is a plus. My guess is that you were, or still are a highschool nerd with nothing to speak for in the zipper department so you comment on a blog to make up for it. AM I correct???? I thought so. Get a life.

    Too funny.

    One thing for sure, you should stay in school as your spelling leaves a lot to be desired, your manners are atrocious and your character judgement is about as far off base as it gets.

    As for me, way back when I was in high school I was doing your mother, tell her I said hi.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited September 2006
    I have a rubber suit with zippers.

    RT1
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  • swchma
    swchma Posts: 49
    edited September 2006
    Cool, so you enjoy doing dead people?
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,668
    edited September 2006
    You're a moron. If she was dead back then, you wouldn't be here, would you putz boy!?!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • swchma
    swchma Posts: 49
    edited September 2006
    Not worth a response...Respect is earned, obviously you need to go back to school and finish this time.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,668
    edited September 2006
    swchma wrote:
    Not worth a response...Respect is earned, obviously you need to go back to school and finish this time.

    I love it, you keep proving my point that you're a moron. Let me clue you in, if you really felt my previous comment wasn't worth a response then you wouldn't have responded, period.

    As far as respect, you were shown respect by the members that answered your questions including myself and you received a lot of good info, although it would seem you're too thick headed to realize that. It was you that failed show any respect for those trying to help you and in turn will not get any further respect from myself nor any of the other good folks here. So, don't you dare talk about respect when you haven't a clue as to what it means.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • dwc56
    dwc56 Posts: 5
    edited September 2006
    I, too, have a Denon 3805 driving LSi9s in the front. It also drives my LSi7s in the rear and a LSiC. I've had this set up for about a year without using an amp. Everything has been working well so far, but...

    That said, I fully recognize and respect the opinions of most on this forum that I am doing it wrong and that I, too, should be using my 3805 as a pre-amp and powering my LSis with a real amp. (I think I was a little too greedy when I set up my system a year ago and went overbudget and therefore left the amp out of the picture).

    Now I am ready to start looking into an amp to go between my 3805 and my LSis. I was looking at the Outlaw amp. I'm interested in everyone's opinion as to whether the Outlaw 7125 amp could adequately drive the LSi9 front and LSi7 rears?
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited September 2006
    Hi Dwc! Welcome to Club Polk.

    The answer is subjective. My standard reply is: For any & all of the LSI's I would START at 200wpc & go up! That will give you the biggest improvement & you just won't ever have to worry about having enough headroom for explosions or crescendos in music ever again!
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • dwc56
    dwc56 Posts: 5
    edited September 2006
    Thanks for the quick response, cfrizz. I have a follow-up question if you don't mind educating a novice a little more...

    In the specs for the Outlaw 7125, it indicates it has an output of 125wpc @ 8ohms and 190wpc @ 4ohms. Would I be correct to evaluate amps in terms of what they deliver @ 4ohms because that is what my LSis are? In other words, should I consider the Outlaw 7125 to deliver 125wpc for my LSis or 190wpc for my LSis?
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  • amulford
    amulford Posts: 5,020
    edited September 2006
    it will be the latter.
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited September 2006
    What Anthony said!

    I look at it this way, the closer the amp gets to giving them what they are rated for in 8ohms they will be that much better off when are pushing 4ohms.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited September 2006
    double post!
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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