Cheap speed...Mustang or Camaro?

audiobliss

A friend and I were talking a bit last night, and we kinda decided that in a few years we'd like to pool some of our 'loose cash' together and buy an old Fox body Mustang. Maybe about $500 for the car, and about that in parts, and we'd do all the work to it.

I was just looking on AutoTrader's website, and the cheapest decent 5.0 Mustangs are about $1200.

And then I started thinking...Mustang or Camaro? I guess the attraction to the Mustang is because you can make it fly really cheap; what engine did the Camaro's of that time frame use? I assume it would be whatever was before the L-88, 'cause a friend has a '91 'Vette, and it has the L-88 in it.

So, to the point, Mustang or Camaro? And, what are some good websites and forums for doing research on Mustangs? I've always been a Chevy guy...don't really know a thing about Mustangs...

Oh, and the purpose of this? Mainly to go fast (taking it down the drag strip would be inevitable), but I would personally like something that will hold up in the corners reasonably well, too.

So gimme some input!

Thanks!

ledhed

Camaro. Get a newer one for cheap and then get a LQ4 motor out of a truck, same block as an LS1 and all the performance upgrades work on it too. New heads, cam and springs - 450HP easy. Or buy a Z28, those came with a LS1.

The reason for this is only the LS1-sure the older mustangs have alot of potential but, with the LS1, as a car magazine stated, you can get an extra hundred HP out of the motor just by looking at it cross-eyed

Edit: Any car that you want to do any type of racing or even just building will run you WAY over $1000 even 2 and 3. The best advice is to buy a quality car and engine and then buy upgrades as you can afford them.

Ok, last edit: this should be all the inspiration you need Clicky

audiobliss

Ya see, that's the whole goal: do it cheap. I've already looked at the 2001, 2002 Camaro's, and fallen in love with the SS for a personal car. However, this idea is totally different. We're going to go into it together, so it will be a 'joint ownership'. We'll beat the dents out of whatever rust bucket we end up with, slap some paint over the bare spots, duct tape the holes in the upholstery, etc. No real unneccessary expenses. Maybe yank out the A/C just because.

If we can't have fun with less than $2k, car, parts, everything, then we just won't do it. The whole goal is to have fun. We're not looking to own the dragstrip or the stop light. I mean, I'm driving a '95 Cherokee and he a '87 BMW and we both think they're fast...so we're not looking for greased lightning. Just the cheapest way to some more fun.

I definitely agree that it'd be more 'satisfying' to get something nice and slowly add to it. But what we're talking about is maybe a two year project from first purchase to dumping it. Something we won't be afraid of tearing up.

Maybe that kinda clears things up a bit.

faster100

Even though im a chevy guy, The mustangs are lighter,.. the chevy parts are cheaper however.. IMO. Id say mustang, plenty around and they don't weigh a ton and easy to make go fast.. most are pretty fast stock

ledhed

Well, if you are going to beat it up, get the Ford If you are looking for a 5.0 though, be careful. Alot of them are completely ragged out and just waiting to blow.

danger boy

Camaro all the way.. in high school i had a '72 Rally Sport Camaro. loved that car.

here is a pic of a '72 Camaro

*this is not mine... sure wish it was though.

audiobliss

Yeah, yeah..I love the 70s Camaros...and the 60s...but this is going to be a beater car. NOT something that's going to get a lot of TLC.

Weight is one reason I was thinking Mustang over the Camaro. But I really have no idea how much it costs for a Camaro vs. Mustang.

disneyjoe7

For the $ you wish too spend I say Chevy. Other then that I say Ford. Chevy go parts should be cheaper then Ford go parts.

danger boy

i know you're looking for a beater car.. my point was just how awesome looking the 70's Camaros were. that's all. and it brought back good warm and fuzzy memories of my own Camaro.

audiobliss

danger boy wrote:

i know you're looking for a beater car.. my point was just how awesome looking the 70's Camaros were. that's all. and it brought back good warm and fuzzy memories of my own Camaro.

They're beautiful, for sure. You oughta get you another one and relive those memories! Then let me take it for a spin!

Sami

240Z with a light V8...

PolkThug

audiobliss wrote:

Oh, and the purpose of this? Mainly to go fast (taking it down the drag strip would be inevitable), but I would personally like something that will hold up in the corners reasonably well, too.

You can't have it both ways unless you want to spend a $%^# ton of money like I did. A Mustang notchback fox body gives a great lightweight platform to build from for drag racing. If you want to go the Camaro route, get one with an LS1.

MattN03

Find a used Fox body-LX if you're wanting the lighest car possible. You can even find some w/o the power ammenties for even more weight savings. Add some nitrous and a safe tune and have at it. If she blows, you're not out a lot of money Of course I'm a diehard Ford man with a 03 Mach 1 that I drag race & show.

madmax

In general you could always get a low line mustang off the lot for a much cheaper price than a low line camaro but the problem with that was that the mustang eliminated everything on the lower cost models, performance wise, for the low price. With camaro you had to pay more for the base model but it wasn't that much different than the higher priced one. Once you start adding aftermarket parts the ford is quite a bit more expensive. I don't know why but if you look at aftermarket prices there is about a 30% higher cost for most items as compared to other american muscle car parts.

Used is going to be a different story for you because that mustang which sold for a lot more on the lot will be in the same ballpark as the cheap one. Here again, the aftermarket parts as well as junk yard parts will get you on price.


madmax

brettw22

As a past owner, I can guarantee you that no good can EVER come from the words "I fell in love with a _____ Camaro".............EVER.

audiobliss

Thanks for all the responses, guys. I really appreciate the input, and I'm sure I'll need a lot more. So, in light of that and the fact that this is at least a year out, I'd appreciate some links to some good forums for Mustangs/Camaros.

Now, I'll try do address some of these responses...

PolkThug wrote:

You can't have it both ways unless you want to spend a $%^# ton of money like I did. A Mustang notchback fox body gives a great lightweight platform to build from for drag racing. If you want to go the Camaro route, get one with an LS1.

Good point about the money. However, we're not looking for 10 second quarter miles and .98g of lateral grip. I'm probably wanting something like low-as-affordable 12 second quarters with enough handling to stay on the road in a fairly tight turn at 75. Is that some-what possible/attainable?

And about the LS1, I'd have to go for a '97 or newer Camaro for that, and I can't afford one of those. Besides, the LT-1 is almost as potent, no?

MattN03 wrote:

Find a used Fox body-LX if you're wanting the lighest car possible. You can even find some w/o the power ammenties for even more weight savings. Add some nitrous and a safe tune and have at it. If she blows, you're not out a lot of money Of course I'm a diehard Ford man with a 03 Mach 1 that I drag race & show.

I'm not sure about my friend, but I personally wanna go naturally-aspirated. Can you tell me the different body-styles that were available during those years (87-93)? I know there's the hatchback and sedan, but what were the real differences, and do the correlate to the GT and LX designation?

Thanks again, all!

audiobliss

brettw22 wrote:

****************

Did he say anything?

brettw22

AB, i'm only treat you like a moron when you're being a moron........seems like a simple concept to understand......--shrug--

jcaut

I had a nice long reply typed out and I guess I lost it because I didn't check "Remember me" when I logged in :mad: I almost don't feel like typing it out again.

I know what you're talking about, but I have to correct you on something: When you mentioned the "L-88" above, what you mean to say is L-98. The L98 was the tuned port injected 350. L-88 was the 430 (wink, wink) horsepower 427 with aluminum heads they made from about '67 to about '69. Big bucks, nowadays, if you can find one.

Anyway, your question: I don't think it'll make a whole lot of difference to you performance-wise, which you choose if you adhere to your budget more-or-less. I'm a Chevy guy, but there's no denying the potential of the Fox-body Mustangs. It might come down to personal preference or just availability. I'd buy the best car I could find to start out with, because if you don't, you'll spend a bunch on non-speed-related repairs. Most of the mid-to late 80's Camaros and Mustangs have taken a beating. I think the best bargain might be had in about an '85 or '86 V-8 Mustang. I think they've held up better than the Camaros about that year model. There are exceptions, of course and it's true that you can get more for your money on go-fast parts for the Chevy engines, at least up until the '93 model year when they switched body styles and dropped the LT1 in the Z28's. That might be an idea: Say, a '93 or '94 Z28 with an LT1. An automatic car with a good torque converter will be quick. Might be beyond your budget, though. I'm not familiar with what they're selling for. Those newer body style Camaros are better built cars, IMO, and I've owned 3 of them.

I think I typed a lot more before, but I'm not sure if I said any more..

Jason

MattN03

audiobliss wrote:

I'm not sure about my friend, but I personally wanna go naturally-aspirated. Can you tell me the different body-styles that were available during those years (87-93)? I know there's the hatchback and sedan, but what were the real differences, and do the correlate to the GT and LX designation?

I understand, I'm a N/A kinda guy too. The LX is the sedan/notch version, while the GT is the hatchback. Check out http://www.svtperformance.com, and http://www.corral.net. These are couple larger sites that will have Fox body related sections.

audiobliss

Thanks for the info, Jason; I really appreciate it. I hate it when I accidentally lose what I just typed! Thanks for typing it out again.

Hmm, I think I'd take an L-88! I'll look into some of the LT-1 Camaros, but I really don't like the way the older Camaros from that era look. The Fox Body Mustangs aren't what I call 'pretty', but they wear scrapes, scratches, and dents better. To me, a early 90's Camaro that's not perfect looks horrble.

audiobliss

brettw22 wrote:

AB, i'm only treat you like a moron when you're being a moron........seems like a simple concept to understand......--shrug--

I gotcha. Sounds reasonable. However, you can guarentee something about Camaro's based on one bad experience? To be honest, that received just as much consideration in my little head as did the stars in my quote.

brettw22

If your goal is to beat it to **** and let it die, I say a Camaro would fill that role nicely.......The 'stories' about my old camaro would take hours, and i don't want to relive the thousands that thing banged me for......

VR3

You gotta love a Chevy Brett...

Good luck Bliss..

PolkThug

audiobliss wrote:

Good point about the money. However, we're not looking for 10 second quarter miles and .98g of lateral grip. I'm probably wanting something like low-as-affordable 12 second quarters with enough handling to stay on the road in a fairly tight turn at 75. Is that some-what possible/attainable?

You'll have to make more HP to compensate for the heavier suspension,etc, it takes to be a corner carver.

Some good cheap mods for your all purpose vehicle are:

A/C delete.
Relocate battery to the trunk.
Switch to an electric fan.

ledhed

Sami wrote:

240Z with a light V8...

I gotta back that up. Actually, ANY Z car (240, 260, 280 and the early 300) should fit a 350, I've seen this done many times.

sucks2beme

I just happy it's a Camaro/Mustang thread. Either one is a very easy platform
for speed. Going fast is by the numbers(buy might be more accurate).
How to make them go fast is very well documented. Just pick one, read some
old Hot Rod, or specialized Chevy or Mustang mag. Hot Rod had a great
low bucks Camaro buildup using a 3rd generation body.
One son has a Mustang. The other a Trans Am. And I've got the insurance bill to go with it. :eek:
Either one will be far cheaper than a Japanese car to get the low ETs with.

audiobliss

Thanks for all the info, folks. So far I think I'm still leaning towards the Fox Body Stang. I'm grab some Mustang magazines the next time I can and get some reading done.

ND13

In my experience, Mustangs just flat out hold up better, especially when abused. Both cars have solid drivetrains, but the chassis (suspension, body, and interiors) holds up much better in the Mustang. Speaking from personal experience. YMMV, but only slightly:p

shack

The only thing the late model Camaros had going for them was the motor. The rest of the car was a total piece of crap. Chevy motors are easier to build and cheaper to generate HP. However, the 5.0 (302) in the Fox Mustang is darn near bulletproof. That motor has been around since 1968 (actually the 302 is a direct decendant of the 289 which was stroked up to the 302). Ford's 9" rear end is also legendary and the Fox cars will accept one easily. I've owned a 79 Camaro and 4 other Mustangs, including a 93 coupe and there is no comparison in the "late model" cars. Go with the Mustang.

audiobliss

I'm beginning to get a bit discouraged. From everything I've read since I've started this thread, everyone has said you can build a 5.0 for near as cheap as most people think. It's beginning to look like it's going to take at least $2000 for just the car. Oh well...we'll see...

Anybody know of some good Mustang magazines I could check out? I'll look through them next time I go to the grocery store or the book store, but it's hard to decide which one(s) is(are) worth subscribing to in just a sitting.

Thanks!