Be proud....

unc2701

dorokusai wrote:

I like to carry my gun in my mouth.

Had some ribs removed, eh?

steveinaz

I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. I've been held up twice, it's a **** violation to a degree you can't begin to comprehend until it happens to you. To know that some **** has the ability to decide your fate, even for a few seconds is a feeling you'll never forget.

unc2701

steveinaz wrote:

I'm just curious, what would you do in a home invasion scenario?

Shoot the f*cker point blank with my mossberg... but that really doesn't have anything to do with DC gun laws or tourists, now does it?

My point is that 99% of the senarios that people come up with- both pro and anti gun are total ****. The stats don't support anything- to my knowledge there are no correlations between guns laws and anything worth mentioning.

I plead the 2nd. Look no further.

Strong Bad

Good response DarqueKnight!

I don't necessarily feel safer with guns in the house, but atleast allow me to have the option to possibly increase my chances of survival. Baseball bats, knives....sorry, you have to get too close to use them. I prefer to pop some lead in a sorry **** criminal the moment I see them.

I hear so many "studies" about the effects on crime that gun laws have that it's hard to believe any of them, whether positive or negative.

Personally, citizens should be armed. Sure it won't stop crime. Nothing will stop crime. It's all about REDUCING crime. Criminals will always get guns. If the chance of running into an armed intended victim rises, then alot may think twice. Enough scumbags get popped in the ****, then more may think twice.

Hmmm...might have to watch Death Wish sometime soon. Always liked that Charles Bronson flick!

disneyjoe7

I stood outside at work yesterday on break about 6:30pm still day light. Heard what I and a co-worker thought was a car back fire, then heard bang then heard BANG BANG BANG.... I said to myself F*CK gun fire, looked at him and yes he thought the same thing. Back in the building, came out the back door and seen a manager checking over fence, he then came over and asked if we seen it. We looked a bit shocked and asked him if he seen it answer yes. 2 cars shooting at each other, no one hurt. Co-worker later went out for dinner, drove pass International drive in Orlando, Florida many families walking around on the street corner 2 miles away all **** happens.

I'm now thinking about carrying something for myself.

steveinaz

john d. strong wrote:

Good response DarqueKnight!

I don't necessarily feel safer with guns in the house, but at least allow me to have the option to possibly increase my chances of survival.

Exactly John.

MacLeod

For all the pointy headed intellectuals that think banning guns gets rid of violent crimes, look to England. They have banned guns but violent crimes are not decreasing. Instead, the crafty thugs are using knives. Well, guess what, now the Britts are wanting to ban kinves.

Then theyll start having baseball bat crime and then theyll have to ban baseball bats.

Fact is, there are a lot of evil people on this planet and even if you somehow magically made all weapons vanish from the earth, these evil people would be breaking limbs off of trees to kill people with.

My solution? Arm everybody!!!

George Grand

Steve, I like you a lot. Always have. That being said, I really think it is hilarious that you feel a citizen of this country that does not own a gun, is a subject, and not a citizen. That was really a dumb statement.

We have the highest murder rate in the world by a long shot. It isn't by accident, and most people aren't getting stabbed, bludgeoned, or choked with a handful of tiddly-winks.

petrym

Quick, ban tiddly-winks as a precaution!

George Grand

Ban bullets, because guns really are pretty cool. We just don't need every freaking yahoo in this country walking around with one (and the requisite bullets).

I don't trust any of you guys. Polk Forum Rules! Rule #2! No posts about weapons. I can't trust you with a keyboard, and you want me to trust you with a loaded firearm.

MacLeod

George Grand wrote:

We have the highest murder rate in the world by a long shot.

Umm. No

Mexico has over twice the murder rate we do and they have ****'ish gun laws.

Brazil has a higher murder rate than Mexico!

Cuba also has communist (literally) gun laws and have the same murder rate we do.

Guns are outlawed in Russia and Russia's muder rate is 4 times higher than ours.

Columbia is over 11 times higher than America's.

You can find this in the UN's Demographic Yearbook.

George Grand

I'll let my ever vigilant "friends" here at Club Polk do all my information legwork for me.

I'm sure the fact that I was wrong is a real comfort to the children caught in the Philly gang cross-fires, and the German tourists that get machine-gunned for the crime of taking a wrong turn while looking for Disneyland.

F1nut

steveinaz wrote:

I just find it interesting that the very same cities/provinces that have strict gun laws almost always also have high crime rates.

I'm saying that criminals are no dummies, they know exactly where the defenseless are, and the statistics bare this out.

What part of, it's the black criminals killing the black criminals mostly over drugs, didn't you get. The article you quoted is a great example of that. You won't hear **** about most crime, particularly murders in DC except when rare incidents against tourists or whites happen. It's the same for all those cities with high crime rates, most of the murders were not commited against the "defenseless."

steveinaz

George Grand wrote:

Steve, I like you a lot. Always have. That being said, I really think it is hilarious that you feel a citizen of this country that does not own a gun, is a subject, and not a citizen. That was really a dumb statement.

Guilty as charged, that was a stupid statement---edited. I get a little passionate over this topic sometimes.

PhantomOG

steveinaz wrote:

I just find it interesting that the very same cities/provinces that have strict gun laws almost always also have high crime rates.

I'm saying that criminals are no dummies, they know exactly where the defenseless are, and the statistics bare this out.

BS, plain and simple. You cannot correlate the two because there are just way too many other variables involved.

Hmm... without even doing any research, I'd be willing to bet that there is a strong correlation between gun control laws and bigger cities. Does that mean more people feel safer living in cities with gun control laws? I'd also be willing to bet that the average education level and income level is much higher in places like D.C. versus Bumblef*ck, Arizona. Does that mean people who prefer gun control laws are smarter? NO. Bigger cities have more crime. And bigger cities also have to try harder to combat this crime than smaller rural cities.

I don't think guns should be outright banned. I also don't believe that any dip$%it with a driver's license should be able to walk into Wal-Mart and buy a fully automatic weapon instantly over the counter. Fighting for your right to bear arms with these weak statistical arguments doesn't further your cause. Its only lowering yourself to the level of those you are against.

BIZILL

PhantomOG wrote:

I also don't believe that any dip$%it with a driver's license should be able to walk into Wal-Mart and buy a fully automatic weapon instantly over the counter.

thank god they can't. but on the streets, they can.

Demiurge

I still live in a mixed blue collar working class/student/criminal **** neighborhood due to some classes I am taking at the university downtown at night. We have some of the worst crime per capita in the country these days, and are also one of the few states without CCW legislation. The people getting murdered aren't just drug dealers. One kid got murdered 2 blocks away a month ago while walking home from a bar. Stupid? Yeah, but if he was actually given the choice to protect himself there might have been a different outcome.

Some are making it sound as if it's just criminals killing criminals. Some people in those bad neighborhoods are either trying to claw their way out, can't afford anything better, or are there just because they don't care, which doesn't make them criminal. I have to imagine that in DC a criminal is crossing the path of a person just trying to get by day to day the best they can.

The lady that lives in the house in front of me is a single black female trying to raise her son alone. She's also a teacher, and due to laws is forced to live in the city of Milwaukee if she wants to keep her job teaching.

I know you're not against gun control, but to say inner city crime involving guns is just criminal on criminal isn't true. Someone like her shouldn't have to worry about going to jail because the state, or federal government won't allow her the carry if she so chooses.

Demiurge

PhantomOG wrote:

BS, plain and simple. You cannot correlate the two because there are just way too many other variables involved.

Hmm... without even doing any research, I'd be willing to bet that there is a strong correlation between gun control laws and bigger cities. Does that mean more people feel safer living in cities with gun control laws? I'd also be willing to bet that the average education level and income level is much higher in places like D.C. versus Bumblef*ck, Arizona. Does that mean people who prefer gun control laws are smarter? NO. Bigger cities have more crime. And bigger cities also have to try harder to combat this crime than smaller rural cities.

I don't think guns should be outright banned. I also don't believe that any dip$%it with a driver's license should be able to walk into Wal-Mart and buy a fully automatic weapon instantly over the counter. Fighting for your right to bear arms with these weak statistical arguments doesn't further your cause. Its only lowering yourself to the level of those you are against.

Okay, I live in Milwaukee, WI. We have a really high crime rate, and we're not allowed to carry despite the law is unlawful according to our own State Constitution. Crime is worse here now than it ever has been. You're trying to tell me that when you're out walking around your neighborhood or to the store that there's no difference if you can or cannot carry? Hell if there isn't.

unc2701

Demiurge wrote:

Okay, I live in Milwaukee, WI. We have a really high crime rate, and we're not allowed to carry despite the law is unlawful according to our own State Constitution. Crime is worse here now than it ever has been. You're trying to tell me that when you're out walking around your neighborhood or to the store that there's no difference if you can or cannot carry? Hell if there isn't.

In Durham you can get a CC license with a short training course. Guess what- we've got a very slightly higher per capita murder rate than Milwaukee. So, what's your point?

Demiurge

unc2701 wrote:

In Durham you can get a CC license with a short training course. Guess what- we've got a very slightly higher per capita murder rate than Milwaukee. So, what's your point?

You have a population of 187,035 and 35 murders in 2005.

1 in every 5,343 is a murder victim in Durham.

We have a population of 596,974 and 122 murders in 2005.

1 in every 4,893 is a murder victim in Milwaukee.

What were you saying about the murder rate there?

There's a lot more variable than just that, but I realize you'd rather complicate the point than make it simple. Income, Race, Age, Desity, Police Presence in the Community, how many people with CCW permits that carried in that city, etc. These are all factors.

Can you comment on the rest of my post, or just focus on a nitpicky thing like the murder rate?

Can you tell me I am not safer as a carrying well trained gun owner (which you have to be for CCW) walking down the street than I would be not carrying? You can't possibly.

steveinaz

PhantomOG wrote:

I'd also be willing to bet that the average education level and income level is much higher in places like D.C. versus Bumblef*ck, Arizona.

I don't think guns should be outright banned. I also don't believe that any dip$%it with a driver's license should be able to walk into Wal-Mart and buy a fully automatic weapon instantly over the counter. Fighting for your right to bear arms with these weak statistical arguments doesn't further your cause. Its only lowering yourself to the level of those you are against.

Well, this uneducated Arizona Bumblef*ck knows enough to know that you need more than a drivers license to buy a weapon---anywhere. You also need a class III license (intensive background search, must be a collector) to have fully automatic weapons.

Now which of us is uneducated? Watch your tone, you treading very close to personal attacks bud.

PhantomOG

I didn't say that only a driver's license is needed. I said I didn't WANT that to be the only requirement, and also implied that I think fully automatic weapons SHOULD still be illegal. Why don't you take a step back and re-read my entire post before you go off and get offended?

Does that mean people who prefer gun control laws are smarter? NO.

I'm saying your statistical argument is weak and fundamentally flawed. If that offends you fine.

steveinaz

unc2701 wrote:

In Durham you can get a CC license with a short training course. Guess what- we've got a very slightly higher per capita murder rate than Milwaukee. So, what's your point?

How many years have these CCW's been available? How many people actually have one? What's your point?

So then we can surmize that we'd be safer if we couldn't own a gun? Is that the point you're making? Just sit at home with our baseball bats and flashlights at the ready? Go ahead, knock yourself out.

George Grand

Thanks Steve. Just add it to the dumb comments I've made over the years here.

Demiurge

Why should they?

steveinaz

Phantom,
In all seriousness; how would you react to your backdoor being kicked in at 2:15 am and finding an armed miscreant in your home? What would you do to protect yourself and your family?

The criminal element has changed, they'll kill you just "because." Did you see the recent story of the 2 elderly folks that were killed in Michigan? The motive was robbery.....ROBBERY. Why on earth would you need to kill to 80+ year old people to rob them? Why? because they get off on it.

So again, what's your plan for a home invasion? The average police response time is 11-15 minutes, it takes an "average" shooter about 6.5 seconds to fire 14 rds from a semi-auto handgun. 11 minutes would be an eternity in that scenario...

BIZILL

**** himself.

Demiurge

steveinaz wrote:

Phantom,
In all seriousness; how would you react to your backdoor being kicked in at 2:15 am and finding an armed miscreant in your home? What would you do to protect yourself and your family?

Sadly, most don't think about it until it happens to them. Then the light suddenly clicks on. The "won't happen to me," or "not in my town," mentality often isn't realized to be wrong until it's too late.

unc2701

Demiurge wrote:

Can you comment on the rest of my post, or just focus on a nitpicky thing like the murder rate?

Can you tell me I am not safer as a carrying well trained gun owner (which you have to be for CCW) walking down the street than I would be not carrying? You can't possibly.

Ok, I had 2004 statistics, but CCW has been available for years around here and its done fuckall to the crime rate. And it's not just Durham. It's everywhere. Got it? Say it with me, "It does nothing"

So, On an individual level, let me tell you my two gun in the face expericences and you tell me how having a gun would have helped.

1)I'm walking down the street in Durham, I pass some thugs. one says, "hey, you got some change" I turn around and dude's holding a pistol about 3 feet away. He got my wallet (no cash) and got off one charge before I canceled the cards.

2)I'm on my way to tikal, guatemala. There's a roadblock, but they're waving the car ahead through- about 10 guys under 25, 3-4 with assault rifles. I stop the car, they make me get out, take my watch & the cash I had in my pocket (had all my real cash in my shoe, under the insole).

The truth is that in both of those situations, a gun wouldn't have done a damn bit of good. You can swing your balls around all you want, but it just doesn't fly and that's how about 99% of the inocent vs criminal showdowns go. I lost $7 US and a crappy fossil watch.

I'm all behind gun ownership, but saying that the laws chang crime rates in either direction is an outright lie.

unc2701

steveinaz wrote:

Phantom,
In all seriousness; how would you react to your backdoor being kicked in at 2:15 am and finding an armed miscreant in your home? What would you do to protect yourself and your family?

Use a rifle that can legally be carried in all 50 states?

Sorry, but home invasion has nothing to do the the topic of the thread.