Went back to listen to the Von Schweikerts...

Joey_V

Went back to listen to the Von Schweikerts.... hoping for a change of opinion from my last encounter with the VR4jr at the same store. This time, I listened to the VR1, the VR2, and the VR4jr.... one right after another, all powered by DK amplification and a Cambridge cdp.

The VR1 -
I thought this little guy was quite ball-sy. It had sound that seemed bigger than it actualy was... with bass that was quite dynamic to boot. I liked its overall presentation and it wasnt expensive. Definitely more articulate and more resolute than the Polk LSi9... but.... I'll tell you later.

VR2 -
This guy was bigger than I expected, it was basically the size of the VR4jr without the two cabinets and the dedicated midrange driver. The VR2 even shares the same ambience tweeter that is on its higher fidelity brother. The VR2 is spec'd out to drive down to 25hz and though it was quick with its bass.. it lacked realism that was evident in its bigger brother. Vocals sounded very similar as heard on the VR1 with the exception of the ambience tweeter. This tweeter adds a sense of depth to the overall presentation and I remember sitting there and thinking - wait a minute, this reminds me a lot about my Summits.... I was listening to the same cd track that I was familiar with from my Summits and the vocal positioning was offset inside the speaker boundaries.... previously I never heard in a conventional speaker. Definitely an articulate speaker... but.....

VR4jr -
I thought that this time around, the VR4jr presented itself a little better. It had more impact than the VR2 and was better with regards to bass. Though the VR4jr is spec'd only 2hz lower than the VR2 (23hz vs 25hz), the VR4jr plays bass with much more authority than the VR2 can... no questions about it. The VR4jr felt complete... while the VR2 felt lacking in overall fullness. Open and clean... but...

But... I felt that all 3 speakers lacked 2 things:
1. Depth, all 3 werent as convincing as I wouldve liked when it came to positioning the players in a 3D soundstage. It was certainly good, but at over $4K, I expected better from the VR4jr.
2. Vocal realism, all 3 were very similar with regards to their vocal production (all used the same drivers essentially). Airy, soft, and resolute... but I still felt that they were all overly sibilant - sort of artificial I thought. I couldnt mistake the vocals for the singers themselves as I always felt like it was coming from music reproduced... hard to explain, really.

Right when I was about to leave Decibel Audio, the owner asked me if I wanted to listen to these speakers called "Audio Physics". I asked which ones they were and he pointed to these slim speakers with a single driver upfront (4" or so) and drivers along the lateral cabinet baffles. I thought to myself, "Oh... not another wannabe speaker."

They were positioned right inside and outside the VR4jr and powered by the same DK amp. I sat down... bam... wow.

Now THIS was music! Very real... superbly reproduced, IMO. These Audio Physic Tempo were BETTER than the VR4jr in the vocal region and in depth, the 2 lackluster aspects of the VS 1/2/4 line (IMO)... and had tremendous midbass attack. I was literally stunned in disbelief as this speaker was able to play in a way that reminded me a lot about the soundstage depth that my own Summits are able to produce. Everything sounded more "real"... I didnt feel like I was listening to speakers... I truly felt like I was listening to real music. There has been very few speakers that have been able to do this to me.. I'll name all the speakers that have and all the speakers that havent just so you can get the idea.

Real:
Martin Logan Summit
Audio Physic Tempo
Wilson Sophia 1
Wilson WP7
Wilson Maxx 2
BW 802D

Reproduced:
Onix Reference 3
Onix Reference 1
Polk LSi7/9/15
Sonus Faber Concerto/Concertino
Axiom M22ti
Onix Rocket 850Sig
BW803S
BW804S
BW703
BW805
BW705
Klipsch RF83... actually.. all klipsch.
Athena F2/1/B
Energy C9/7
Many more...

These Audio Physic speakers were quite amazing... I really dug them. They were resolute yet had a much more realistic sonic presentation. Vocals were much more palpable and instruments (i.e. tamborine) sounded more realistic with realistic impact in space than previously heard on the VR4jr. Height was good (though not excellent) and overall presentation was superior. Depth was good and there was that x-factor that I felt all VS in the store lacked... "acoustic believability".

You could really tell that this speaker had "believability" as it was clearly evident when Patricia Barber's voice dynamically went up atleast 6db during the recording and the AP captured every bit of it with STUNNING solidarity... while the VR4jr sounded strained and held back in transient dynamics. No contest with vocal realism I thought.

I took home the AP brochure and have spent some time looking at it. Apparently they have some speakers that go up to the $60,000 range.... these guys are serious about music to say the least. I noticed that they have the Avanti with the Vifa tweeter and an even higher end speaker - the Caldera with the same Scan Speaker ring radiatior ultra-tweeter found on the VS9 and Wilson Alexandria X2.... man, I'd love to hear those 2 top-end APs in action!

I'm going to look into this brand a little more... I'm going to audition their $10K speaker and see how they stack up to the Summits.

BTW, the AP Tempo retails for just about as much as the VR4jr (~$4K).

One caveat though, the AP doesnt extend as low (only to 35hz).... but what it had, it had in spades.

That's all for today. This week sometime, I'm heading out to our ONLY authorized dealer in the Chicagoland area for Sonus Faber and I'm going to finally hear what all this hoopla regarding the Homage series and Cremona series is all about.

Stay tuned.

Joey_V

Zero wrote:

There was a pair of original Virgo's on the 'gon for $990 about 5 months ago. Talk about a heart-breaker... I just didnt have the cash on me at the time. Audio Physic is great stuff - no "me too's" about it.

To really appreciate Sonus, do some research on the company history. You cannot go in expecting great value in traditional terms of cost/performance ratio. Sonus Faber is about art and sound - theres a lot of pride in these speakers. All hand-made by a group of 8 or so women (yes, women) in a very small shop in Italy.The upper tiers are gorgeous, especially in the right decour.

That is a heart breaker, Sean.

Regarding the SF.... I know about their history and their pride in craftmanship. Believe me when I tell you that I will spend a full 5 minutes just staring and inspecting the Sonus Faber Amati or Stradivari before letting any music interrupt our salsa dance.

polkatese

Amati and/or Anniversario definitely were created to be stared at. The glossy finish is amazing, at its price point, it's almost sinful to pair them with less than Levinson-class gears.

Joey and Sean, I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on Cremona/Amati/Anniversario, please be gentle with your Cremona's slam, if you're done with the comparo..;)

Joey_V

Polkatese,

I dont think I slam things.. do I? I'm sure the Cremonas are gonna knock my socks off.

Joey

Early B.

Nice write-up.

I dunno. Just wondering if your impressions of the speakers would change if you were using a higher quality source. As a former owner of the 640C, I'm guessing the Cambridge CPD would impact your judgment about realism. Perhaps the VS's were simply giving you everything the source had to offer.

polkatese

Joey_V wrote:

Polkatese,

I dont think I slam things.. do I? I'm sure the Cremonas are gonna knock my socks off.

Joey

No, you never do. I was just being self-concious and put those two beautiful speakers on pedestals. I started off admiring SF going back to Grand Piano, and having them auditioned along with the Cremona (its better sibling, the Domus), made it very obvious on which one is more capable of producing life-like music.So, by extension, comparing Cremona to either Amati/Anniversario will produce similar results.

Loud & Clear

Reminds me greatly of my experiences with newer Polks vs. their vintage models.

halo

Joey - I have to agree with Early B here:

Early B wrote:

Just wondering if your impressions of the speakers would change if you were using a higher quality source, I'm guessing the Cambridge CPD would impact your judgment about realism. Perhaps the VS's were simply giving you everything the source had to offer.

Aside from that, when I auditioned them at Decibel Audio they were driven by a Rogue Audio tube amp and preamp and a Shanling tube CDP. I'm not knocking your review or your opinion - I'm just saying that the VR's are a different animal on an all tube rig. Then again, I'm biased .

F1nut

Just goes to prove how subjective this hobby really is. Thanks for your opinions.

wingnut4772

I wish that you were able to hear my VR4 Jrs on my gear even in my troublesome room. Just the opposite of your review. I feel as though the artists and the instruments are in the room with a spacious and accurate soundstage and no sibilance whatsoever. I think I will be a Von Schweikert girl for life.:D

Joey_V

wingnut4772 wrote:

I wish that you were able to hear my VR4 Jrs on my gear even in my troublesome room. Just the opposite of your review. I feel as though the artists and the instruments are in the room with a spacious and accurate soundstage and no sibilance whatsoever. I think I will be a Von Schweikert girl for life.:D

Definitely... I can agree with most of your observations. I'm not saying that they cant image, place instruments in the room, or provide a solid musical experience. I suppose I'm being overly critical.

ND13

I'm of the opinion that price hasn't as much to do with how good a particular speaker sounds, as some people make it out to be. I've heard several mega buck speakers that I didn't care for their sound, at all. As MANY have said over and over again, this is a very subjective hobby. Just because one person likes a particular speaker doesn't mean that the one that doesn't has bad ears, equipment, or taste, just a different set of ears and wants from their speakers....unless it's Bose, then they just have bad taste:p

Joey_V

ND13 wrote:

I'm of the opinion that price hasn't as much to do with how good a particular speaker sounds, as some people make it out to be. I've heard several mega buck speakers that I didn't care for their sound, at all. As MANY have said over and over again, this is a very subjective hobby. Just because one person likes a particular speaker doesn't mean that the one that doesn't has bad ears, equipment, or taste, just a different set of ears and wants from their speakers....unless it's Bose, then they just have bad taste:p

Why do you bring price as an issue up?

Normanality

Nice review Joey. I came away with the same impressions of the VR's at the same store. I wonder if they could present them better sonically in some way.
There was too much around the speakers to allow the ambience driver to work properly and I was amazed at the lackluster bass. I wonder if a better setting would shed a different light on them?? I didn't have time to ask to have things rearranged at the time.

halo

Normanality wrote:

I wonder if a better setting would shed a different light on them??

You and Joey are welcome over anytime Bring your TAD-60 and we'll show him what kind of magic tubes bring to the table

Joey_V

Halo wrote:

You and Joey are welcome over anytime Bring your TAD-60 and we'll show him what kind of magic tubes bring to the table

You know I'm down!

Anytime... I'm free tomorrow afternoon!

halo

pm sent