Plasma vs LCD

JSHRN

I'm in the process of adding a wide screen TV to my HT but have a dilemma. Plasma or LCD? I've done loads of research, have priced models and seen them in showrooms and have narrowed my choices down in each category, but I'm still stuck on which type to get.

I've heard the pros and cons of each but still can't make up my mind. I love the pq on the Sony Wega's but have heard about the expense of buying new bulbs. I also love the Panasonic, Hitachi and Samsung plasmas.

What has been your experience and what is your personal preference? How did you decide? Thanks.

mulveling

I would choose Plasma. I'm a fan of CRT sets, and Plasma is a close second for me. I'm actually considering getting a nice new Plasma in the near future for my main HT.

Direct view LCD has come a long way in the last few years (quality, size, & price), getting close to the point where I might actually consider buying one. I still have the same old 3 big issues with them, though:

1) Black level - still bad. This absolutely kills dynamics & colors in dark scenes. These sets actually have GREAT black levels in a brightly lit room (like say - Best Buy), which can be deceiving (details in dim scenes will still be poor though). It's a whole 'nother story once you get them home and dim the lights. The black level of CRT diminishes to almost nothing as you cut the lights off - but it doesn't look so impressive in a bright room when you have ambient light reflecting off the screen phosphors.
2) Colors - On the level of DLP; not as natural as the phosphor based plasma and CRT sets. Tends to looks a bit cartoonish and oversaturated, not good at rendering fine textures.
3) Ghosting. Not a problem with anime, but for live action it smears details, especially textures.

Plasma has decent black levels, good colors, and not too many artifacts - really the only one is screendoor, which should not be an issue from sane seating distances. I really like what I've seen from the Panasonic Plasmas in particular. The resolution is lower that comparable LCDs (especially the 42" sets), but in viewing I find this is not much of an issue - the disadvantages of LCD outweigh the greater resolution IMO. As far as the projection technologies: Rear P. LCD, Front P. LCD, and DLP - I can't stand any of them due to the artifacts they display. Again, just my experiences and preferences.

josh_parsons626

mulveling wrote:

As far as the projection technologies: Rear P. LCD, Front P. LCD, and DLP - I can't stand any of them due to the artifacts they display. Again, just my experiences and preferences.

When you say the "artifacts" they display, what do you mean, exactly, by that? Do you mean how crystal clear the display is? Please explain.

mulveling

josh_parsons626 wrote:

When you say the "artifacts" they display, what do you mean, exactly, by that? Do you mean how crystal clear the display is? Please explain.

I mean defects in the image that annoy me

Projection LCD artifacts include fixed pattern noise, scanlines in vertical motion (the worst offender for me, as I see it in every set), and possible color uniformity issues. Of course the occasional dust blob is also a threat.

DLP artifacts include rainbows (and the sometimes asociated eyestrain) and temporal dithering.

Additionally, LCD & DLP RPTV's generally have a significant grainy texture to the image that I don't like.

mutelight

If I had to chose between LCD and Plasma I would lean more towards the plasma tech. since I love the black levels they produce and the color reproduction. The Panasonic plasmas are absolutely breathtaking. What size screen are you thinking? I know that almost all if not all plasmas under 50" have a native resolution of 1024x768 which is not a true HD resolution.

When I was shopping for a TV I went to every store I could auditioning them. I took a few DVDs with me and eventually ended up bringing in my 360. I was in the market for a rear-projection unit, DLP, LCoS (which is Sony's SXRD tech. and JVCs HD-ILA tech.), and RPCRT. I actually origionally purchased a 50" Samsung DLP (which had a great picture) but due to their DNIe picture processing it created an almost 500ms lag which made games unplayable and I had to run all the audio through the set so that it would be in sync even if I set the TV on game mode which should have disabled this feature. (I have heard that this has now been addressed and fixed.) After I returned that set I continued my search and this is when I brought my 360 with me and tried out the JVC HD-ILA which I almost instantly fell in love with. Unfortunately the PQ is somewhat poor on SD broadcasts (which is common on fixed pixel displays) but after messing with the picture settings I got it more under control since it is so bright and shows every little imperfection on the screen. As far as HD content the images it produces are real nice. To sum it all up I highly recommend shopping around as much as possible and trying them out before you make your decision. It sounds to me that you have been doing the right thing by doing all your research, just keep up the good work.

JSHRN

So far, these are my choices.

Plasma
Panasonic TH-50PHD8UK $2,840.00
Panasonic TH-50PX60U $2,979.99
Hitachi 55HDM71 $3,779.99
Toshiba 50HP66 $2,699.99
Samsung HP-R5052 $2,999.99

LCD
Sony KDL-46S2000 $3,399.99
Sony KDF-E50A20 $2,069.99
Pioneer PDP-5060HD $3,749.99

Rear Projection
Sony KDS-R60XBR1 $3,599.99
Samsung HL-S5087W $2,199.99
Samsung HL-R6768W $3,499.99
JVC HD-61FH96 $2,899.99


Any thoughts on these?

mulveling

No question - I'd go for one of the Panny plasmas. 'Coulda sworn I saw one of those on sale at Circuit City for $2500 this weekend, though it's possible I misread.

mutelight

Out of those I would highly recommend the Panasonic TH-50PX60U hands down. The images that thing produces are phenominal and with a 10,000:1 contrast ratio you'll be hard pressed to find one better. I noticed that the Pioneer PDP-5060HD you listed under LCD is actually a Plasma and its native resolution is 1024x768 so I would make sure to avoid that display. I am assuming that the depth of the display is not so much an issue?

Because as you can see if you decide to go with a rear-projection tech. you get significantly larger screen real estate for less money. Plus with the new technologies viewing angles, unit weight, depth, etc have been dramatically improved. The Sony KDS-R60XBR1 and JVC HD-61FH96 are both beautiful looking displays and excellent performers which both use their own version of LCoS which is similar to a rear-projection LCD and DLP hybrid. The advantage this technology has over DLP is no matter how sensitive your eyes are you will not suffer the dreaded rainbow effect since all color are driven to the screen simutaneously. Not only that, those two (along with the Samsungs) support 1080p resolution which will really future-proof your investment.

Let me know if you have any more questions.

Toxis

Sony SXRD... otherwise I'd do a Sony XBR flat panel. Period.

mutelight

Toxis wrote:

Sony SXRD... otherwise I'd do a Sony XBR flat panel. Period.

Yeah, agreed. The Sonys have always been great, just over priced.

Toxis

I honestly don't feel their TV's are overpriced at all. Sure there's markup but compare them to anyone else. They're the same percentage typically. But sony is a superior TV in most cases and worth the extra bucks. Plus, with the price drops on the SXRD's, why NOT get one? But I'd never go bigger than the new 55" for my situation.

josh_parsons626

Mutelight, honestly I'm seeking the largest clearest screen I can get. LOL isn't that everybody's dream though? For now I want a wall-mountable Plasma, for the simple reason that the TV will be in me and my fiance's bedroom. When we get us a house I will have a dedicated HT room, that I will have a project w/100"+ screen put in. We're going later today to look at tires for the van and I'll swing by Circuit City to look at TV's. Any suggestions as to what brands I should look at?

Holydoc

josh_parsons626 wrote:

Mutelight, honestly I'm seeking the largest clearest screen I can get. LOL isn't that everybody's dream though? For now I want a wall-mountable Plasma, for the simple reason that the TV will be in me and my fiance's bedroom. When we get us a house I will have a dedicated HT room, that I will have a project w/100"+ screen put in. We're going later today to look at tires for the van and I'll swing by Circuit City to look at TV's. Any suggestions as to what brands I should look at?

Best plasma's for the money are the Panasonic 60U or 600U series. I am waiting on mine to be delivered today.

PhantomOG

Holydoc wrote:

Best plasma's for the money are the Panasonic 60U or 600U series. I am waiting on mine to be delivered today.

I'm torn between the 58" 600U or the Pioneer 60" 6070HD. Neither one is really out yet though. Hopefully by October when I buy, there will be plenty of reviews.

mutelight

For plasmas, check out the Panny's and Pioneers.
For rear-projecton, Samsung, Sony, JVC (although I think only Best Buy has them)
LCDs, Samsung, Sony, Westinghouse has some nice models.


What it all will really boil down to is personal preference but all those manufactures for those techs are great. But as I said earlier rear-projection will give you 1080p but for a bedroom a flat panel seems the way to go.

Then when you are ready for the projector get the Sony Ruby. :cool:
VPL-VW100
That will come later though. Haha

Holydoc

PhantomOG wrote:

I'm torn between the 58" 600U or the Pioneer 60" 6070HD. Neither one is really out yet though. Hopefully by October when I buy, there will be plenty of reviews.

You cannot go wrong with either one. I heard that the pioneer's bezel looks a bit better than the panasonic because it is all black trimmed. Both have the same features.

If price is no object, I would probably lean towards the Pioneer. It is larger and a bit more elegant looking. If price is an object, then you will be very happy with the Panasonic.

Either way, I envy your extra inches. LOL

PhantomOG

I like the Pio's smaller black bezel and removeable speaker (won't be using it of course!), and also the ability to take a 1080p input over HDMI.

However, I've been reading at avsforums and some people believe Pio's are more prone to IR/burn-in. I won't be gaming on it (much), but I'm worried about station identifiers IR and such. I've also read that Pio's SD scaler makes watching SD more enjoyable than Panny's. In the end it may just come down to the price difference between them I guess.

Holydoc

If caution is taken your first 100 hours of watching, then burn-in is a thing of the past. They are working very hard to eliminate that stigma of burn-in that has kept people from purchasing them. One day it will be an old wive's tale just like the others such as:
1) You have to replace a plasma every couple of years
2) You have to refill the gas in the plasmas
3) Plasmas attract elephants more than other CRTs

Ok...ok... so I made up the last one. But is it true?

Lsi9

I prefer a good LCD to Plasma...Lcds while not having the black levels of a plasma are much more reliable and generally last longer.
Plasma Tv still has burn in issues, don't let anyone fool you into believing otherwise, especially if you play video games

pfenton

Don't overanalyze! Just pick the one you like, and I'm sure you'll be happy.

josh_parsons626

Hey guys, went to Circuit City today and went browsing. Well found one I think me and my fiance are gonna go with. It's a Sony 50" Wega SXRD Rear-Projection HDTV. What do y'all think? For now it'll be in the living room, then when we move and I build my dedicated HT it'll be in our bedroom. For $3,000 do y'all think it's worth it? And another thing, would a regular stand just be good? Cause all my AV equipment will be in a seperate rack of their own. What kind of cable should I get? Good component, DVI, HDMI, what? And I think I'm gonna get a Monster Power Center, but would the Monster Surge Protector do good, or would the Power Center be better?

josh_parsons626

I need a cosign as my credit isn't that great yet and we're gonna get it Sunday, so if y'all can help me out before then, when I get it I'll post how I feel about it. The reason why I'm going with this is cause it's the one she liked the best, and I liked it too. It'll be good for living room for 2 or 3 to 5 years on down the road. And then when it gets put in the bedroom it wont have to absolutely be the best, but it'll be awesome just though in my opinoin.

Holydoc

Panasonic TH50PX600U (in English, 50" Panasonic Plasma) came in on Thursday. Had it setup in 30 minutes. Was watching HD immediately after.

All I can say is WOW! Wow...wow...WOW! This is the best picture I have ever seen on a television. I am just totally amazed.

I will post pictures soon in a different thread, but wow.

SKsolutions

+1 on the Panny. It's been 9 months and I'm still in love.

Toxis

to bad CRT tubes don't come bigger... then you'd see a real picture.

lonwa

This is a reply to LSi9's statement

"Plasma Tv still has burn in issues, don't let anyone fool you into believing otherwise, especially if you play video games"

This could not be further from the truth. I just cranked out over 100 hours playing XBOX-360 Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion on my Pioneer Elite plasma, and there are no signs of the health bar after watching regular TV for several days. Yes, they did show up very slightly for a while, but have completely disappeared from the screen.

Now, I cannot say that "playing for 200 hours without a doubt will not burn in" on your plasma, since I have not done it. But if you are playing/watching something for 200 hours straight and it does burn in, that is just pure abuse in my mind, and owner beware "undesireable things may happen when you abuse your TV" (in all honesty, 100 hours was abuse too. I just wanted people to know what I was able to do and still not have any burn in on my plasma - the game was so good I could not put it down ....).

Please don't spread rumors about the new plasmas. You may have experienced burn-in with models from 4 or 5 years ago, but my 1 year old plasma has been humming along without any signs of burn-in after the abuse I put it through.

Thanks for listening.

Lonwa

peteran

JSHRN wrote:

So far, these are my choices.

Plasma
Panasonic TH-50PHD8UK $2,840.00
Panasonic TH-50PX60U $2,979.99
Hitachi 55HDM71 $3,779.99
Toshiba 50HP66 $2,699.99
Samsung HP-R5052 $2,999.99

LCD
Sony KDL-46S2000 $3,399.99
Sony KDF-E50A20 $2,069.99
Pioneer PDP-5060HD $3,749.99

Rear Projection
Sony KDS-R60XBR1 $3,599.99
Samsung HL-S5087W $2,199.99
Samsung HL-R6768W $3,499.99
JVC HD-61FH96 $2,899.99


Any thoughts on these?

You should also consider the Westinghouse LCD's. Their value and picture quality is unsurpassed compare to the main Brands.

johnADA

Just consider these few things.

A Plasma is not and all day TV if you have alot of light from daylight in the room. I havent seen one to date that shows up well like a CRT of LCD in day lit rooms.

LCD's only show these artifacts on poor signals, not on good ones which one the transition to digital takes place will be rare.

Neither shows true scales of grey and neither is better at them. Where one may go blacker, the other may do better greys to whites.

High ended units just cost more and have the tendency to drive high color saturations making them go cartoony. If you took a lower priced TV and a high priced one, got them ISF calibrated, they would be with a few percentage at best different. But the lower ended one with this ISF calibration would cost less overall than the higher priced one either calibrated to be equal and right or non calibrated.

If I truely believed a "SONY" type ideal I would not own Polks!!!!

bvette94

I have the pioneer 5060 hd plasma and i love it . it has the best color the blackest blacks and a nice black frame. the grey frames on the panasonic create a contrast and tends to distract you from the image. I got bb to deal when i bought mine. I saved $1000.00 off the price in the store.I told them i saw it cheaper at costco. get the pioneer you wont regret it.

Toxis

greyest greys maybe... plasmas can't even make a black when turned off.

Lsi9

Its been said by me before...SXRD is the Best picture out there bar none...including 1080p DLP