Undocumented workers have rights too?

goingganzo

i say buld the great wall of mexico deport any one who dont belong and any one form iran sence they said if we hinder them getting nukes they would blow the us back to the stone age.

mrbigbluelight

mrmusicman wrote:

Mabe we could build some, "camps".:eek:

They are being built, Mrmusicman.
They HAVE been built.

http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/fema.htm

That's from a quick Google search. I'm using my son's laptop, without my desktop's files, so I'll apologize for the semi-kook site posted. There are more authentic, responsible sites out there with some pretty interesting information. Look and you will find. The facts are out there.

There ARE massive camps built throughout the U.S, with "barracks", paved roads, etc. HUGE camps. Fenced camps. Protected by double-rowed fence topped by concetina wire.
"Future military camps, fenced to keep people out." Thoughful viewpoint.
But the concertina wire doesn't face outwards, to keep people out.
It faces inward, to keep people in.

If this is true, as presented, than one would have to ask, I believe, the question: "Why ?".


As several posters have noted, once you start fining and jailing the employers who employ illegal immigrants, than the problem of illegal immigration rapidly grinds to a halt.
The government hasn't taken this obvious step. Why ?
"Official" government stats put the number of illegal immigrants in this country at 12 to 18 million. That figure is laughable. Actual numbers are probably closer to 25 million. Possibly more.
Since 1973, there have been approximately 30 million abortions performed in the United States. (neither pro nor con on that issue, just stating figures).
The level of illegal immigration approximately replenishes that number.

Why would the government wish to replenish the ranks of generally lower to middle class citizens ?
Two words: cannon fodder.

View the world around you. What do you see ?

Tour2ma

PhantomOG wrote:

... while they don't pay taxes...

Wow, I did not know that they are exempt from state sales tax... Probably get a break on their rent as well, I guess.

They pay the state exactly what you and I pay in good, old, state-income-taxless Texas... around 8.25% of their disposable income...

And before you go off on them not paying the IRS, many do, e.g., those working on a true payroll like hotel and restaurnat workers. And if they're on a payroll, they pay SS and Medicare as well. And even though their wages are often below poverty levels and their IRS tab would be zero, they can't file a return. Furthermore, they'll never reap any SS benefits.

Skynut wrote:

we get held to a higher standard than the rest of the world.

It's got nothing to do with "the rest of the world". It's the standard to which we hold ourselves accountable. Just like it used to be for torture... You want to reduce ours to the level of say... oh, I don't know... France? Or maybe Russia? Lead the way...

Demiurge wrote:

Why should businesses be punished by the government that lets them in? I find it a tad ironic. Government provides illegals with free education and health care, but we want to fine businesses for hiring the same people that our government welcomes here with open arms? Interesting double standard.

Enforce the laws we have, put up a damn wall, secure it, and then deal with the problems within the border. That's where you start, but nobody wants to talk about what would actually solve the problem.

The folks who say send them all back are just as crazy. How the hell are you going to deport 11-20+ million people? Not going to happen....

Demi, to paraphase Fred Gwynn (R.I.P.) in "My Cousin Vinnie"...
"That sir, was a concise, lucid argument."

Even if we could round them up, it could be runinous for the economy.
Full article

But on your voting block comment, 40% of the legal Hispanic population voted Republican last go 'round... and as we both know, Democrats didn't vote at all...

Polk65

The secret agenda is to increase the birth rate.

With Hollywood actors divorcing as fast as they marry, the rest of us busy buying and paying off toys and not raising babies, the birth rate is declining.

There is a need for bodies to contribute to the system for retiree benefits.

What needs to be done is enforce our open borders, hold court judges accountable, and export those that feel everything is entitled to them to a commie country instead of allowing them to set one up here.

As for immigrants, continue lotteries or get a sponsor. My family waited to get here legally and that's how I feel.

bobman1235

Tour2Ma wrote:

And before you go off on them not paying the IRS, many do, e.g., those working on a true payroll like hotel and restaurnat workers. And if they're on a payroll, they pay SS and Medicare as well. And even though their wages are often below poverty levels and their IRS tab would be zero, they can't file a return. Furthermore, they'll never reap any SS benefits.

Huh? I was under the impression that an illegal immigrant can NOT be paid on a regular payroll. How do you take taxes out of someone's pay if they dont' have a social security number or some kind of work visa? It makes no sense. I'm not involved in payroll stuff so I legitimately don't know the answer to this, but it just doesn't make sense to me. Hiring illegals IS illegal, despite the fact that it isn't enforced that much, but if you put them on the payroll you're ASKING to be caught.

Polk65 wrote:

The secret agenda is to increase the birth rate.

With Hollywood actors divorcing as fast as they marry, the rest of us busy buying and paying off toys and not raising babies, the birth rate is declining.

There is a need for bodies to contribute to the system for retiree benefits.

Doesn't that aluminum foil hat get uncomfortable after a while? Illegal immigrants don't contribute to retiree benefits. They take away from them, if anything. Helping make LEGAL immigration easier would help retiree benefits, but that's not happening.

Tour2ma

b-man,
False documents...

Legit businesses, e.g., Holiday Inn, Acme Meats, etc., require some documentation, they just don't scrutinize it. I'm sure companies pay in cash under the table, but that's a bigger risk to the employer than being fooled by a birth certificate that's in crayon.


Now how do illegals "take away from retiree" bennies?


EDIT: At least we agree on the dangers of Aluminum poisoning... although I suspect there's a tongue firmly planted in cheek 'round here. At least I hope there is...

Skynut

I would say (off the top of my head) that the retiree benifits that are being used up are because the gov. takes our social security money and spens part of it to offset their expense for public services like county medical centers and welfare. The illegals are actually getting free services here, if they can get across the boarder and have a child on our soil that child is a citizen. The parents now have a right to be here with that child. The parents also have a right to all our services in order to help them raise their "American child". They don't have any reason to go out of their way to teach the "American child" how to speak english because we force the schools to teach in spanish.
So what do we have? We have an entire family of imigrants living here legally because they managed to get across the boarder in time for one of their however many kids to be born on American soil.
They do use up our social benifit money and I believe they are using it up faster than it is being replenished.

I read an article (I couldn't find it now to save my life) that was written about the best way to ruin a society. The items that stood out to me were as follows.
1. Divide the people by allowing them to form groups that stick to themselves and don't socialize with other people in the society. Done by alowing them to assimilate into society without learning how to comunicate with others outside their group.
2. Provide more social benifits than can be sustained by the economy.
3. Rally people around causes that keep the political parties against each other and the number of political parties to a minimum. (like 2, rep/dem)

These were the three that really stood out. Keep voting people fighting each other so they are pre-occupied and the same 2 political parties will stay in power.
Keep people from communicating and they can not form larger groups that would be harder to control.
Empty out the social systems so the common people can never get far enough ahead to be threatening to the status quo.

Perhaps this is all just incoherent ramblings but when I read the article it really made sence to me.
The author was not trying to make a point about one party vs. the other he was simply saying that in his opnion we are doing (by accident) many of these things that he claims have been the downfall of many wealthy civilizations before us.

Tour2ma

Doesn't strile me as incoherent, sounds like a recipe for control. Not sure we are there yet, but if not, we ain't far away.

With to your comment regarding illegals sapping the SS Trust Fund, I did a little SS searching and found this:

The Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996.

This "welfare reform" legislation, signed by the President on 8/22/96, ended the categorical entitlement to AFDC (Aid to Families with Dependent Children) that was part of the original 1935 Social Security Act by implementing time-limited benefits along with a work requirement. The law also terminated SSI eligibility for most non-citizens. Previously, lawfully admitted aliens could receive SSI if they met the other factors of entitlement. As of the date of enactment, no new non-citizens could be added to the benefit rolls and all existing non-citizen beneficiaries would eventually be removed from the rolls (unless they met one of the exceptions in the law.)

Section above is very deep into this web-site: http://www.ssa.gov/history/briefhistory3.html

I still wasn't sure how to square your SS statement with the above summary. I thought maybe if I looked at the "exceptions to the law," it'd help. First search took me here. No wonder SS is such deep shite, the outline of one act scrolls on and on and on... Took one more shot using "non-citizens" in place of "illegal immigrants" and it produced this:
http://www.uscis.gov/graphics/services/SAVE.htm#one
I think the answer is there... just need a decoder ring.

I also did a bit of searching on "birthright citizenship" and found this study of 38 countries. Twelve of the 38, including us, grant them unconditionally. More interesting is that joining us in the twelve are Mexico and Canada.

Mike682

interesting

ND13

Virginia Sanchez, who lives near the railroad tracks that carry Central Americans north to the U.S. border, said such shootings in Tultitlan are common.

"At night, you hear the gunshots, and it's the judiciales (state police) chasing the migrants," she said. "It's not fair to kill these people. It's not fair in the United States and it's not fair here

When was the last time we maliciously and knowingly shot illegal immigrants???
Is this the type of propaganda that is being spread down there?? If so, I'd think there would be less coming across, don't ya think??

Skynut

Another way the money is being used to fund illegals is we are required to educate all children here. Legally or not.
This helps overcrowd the classrooms and spread the teachers thin. Like 35 students per teacher.
On top of that we must provide bi-lingual teachers so part of the class can be taught in spanish.
My boy has to sit through the lecture while the teacher switches back and forth between languages.
The school in the little town I live in has 2% english speaking students.
2%!!
My newly aquired stepson was supposed to go to this school and be part of the 2%.
The other 98%? Spanish.
We had to transfer him to another school so he could have a decent ratio of languages. (I think it has over 50% english but I don't remember) We have to drive him to and from this new school since they will not bus students from outside their district.
The reason was not to get him away from the foreigners but to put him somewhere that he can comunicate with most of the people.

cfrizz

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20060419185109990018&ncid=NWS00010000000001

MacLeod wrote:

The best way to fix out illegal immigration problem is first to crack down on the employers that hire these illegals. Fine them $10,000+ for each illegal found in their employment. Start strict enforcement of this and youll see most of the 12 million illegals over here heading for home.

Skynut

"I really feel angry because this is an injustice," he said through a translator. "It's an injustice because one person, who come from another country, why can't you work?"

He said through a translator.

Here is a big part of the problem. If he can't understand the language how can he possibly understand the laws?

Ignorance to the law is no excuse. (for a citizen but a foreigner?)