Bi-amping RT1000i's

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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited June 2002
    Scott Scott Scott....

    You disappoint me man. Go read the 1000 manual on polkaudio.com..... Top post for the mid AND tweet, bottom is speaker level input for the powered sub....Same for the 2000.

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • nascarmann
    nascarmann Posts: 1,464
    edited June 2002
    There are two sets of binding post - one for the tweeter and one for the mid-driver

    I dunno? I don't think so? How does the signal get to the sub?

    KING BI-WIRE
    Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,199
    edited June 2002
    Can I jump in here one more time???
    The fact or not if the speaker is truly biwired as Ken put it is a valid point.I agree with it to an extent.If you gain sound quality as I did and Another guy did( I forget his name,I'm so bad with names..sorry)then let it rest.True bi wire as you guys call it or not.The fact is by seperating the lows from the midbass and high's make an audio difference.I have heard it from wire to wire.I have changed out my wires more then most sane people do.
    Can someone post exaclty what bi wiring means to you or as a fact so everyone can understand where everyones comming from???
    I will start with my simple thinking on bi wiring.If any speaker has 2 sets of binding posts on the back of them,If you run seperate 2 conductor speaker level wire to both posts from the same output of a given amp,Isn't that bi wiring in it's simplest form?Correct me if I'm wrong.Please so i and everyone else can get to the bottom of the bi wiring thing.I'm all ears,eyes,whatever.
    I just want to know where your thinking is.:)
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,199
    edited June 2002
    mlware was his name sorry dude for not remembering.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited June 2002
    Mantis, what the eff did we discuss last night, you damn well know that aint bi-wiring........

    Cheers,
    Russ

    I don't care if it made a sonic difference or not, I hope it did, but it is NOT bi-wiring!!!!! The midbass and tweet are connected to the same post...what else is there to discuss???

    C'mon Mantis, tell the good people here what you told me last night, we seemed to be on the same page.....

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,199
    edited June 2002
    Russmann,
    I just wanted your full story on Bi wiring, not looking to justifiy why I do 2 my speakers.I think alot of other people in here could benifit from us all posting are take on Bi wiring.
    The midbass and tweeter connected to the same post isn't answering the bi wiring question, only to powered towers.What about all other kinds of speakers?
    Why would Bi wiring benifit a speaker or not?
    If a speaker can truly be bi wired,what benifits should one hear?And why would it make a difference?
    Thats All I want to know.You guys talk about what can't be bi wired , you made your point 10x over, but Why don't we turn this post around and talk about how to do it right and why.
    Are you with me on this???
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited June 2002
    Uhhh, let me sober up for sec....

    Seriously, it can make a HUGE difference, in this subjective hobby we have. Seperating the mid and high freq's can provide an astonishing difference in some speakers, and minimal if any in others. Right out of the box, for the most part, I believe if the manufacturer gives you the option, thats one big clue to use it.

    One thing I have been pondering, is how bi-wiring, on certain speaks mind you, may actually lower the impedance....Therefore obviously giving you a sense of better sound by the amp pushing more raw power (assuming your amp is up to the load)...

    Bi-wire some 800's, take them from 8 ohm to 5.3 ohm or some such... draw more dynamic power? Just my **** cheeks flapping here mind you...

    Cheers,
    3 Sheets Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,199
    edited June 2002
    the difference in Ohm load I have never thought about it,I can find out,but not sure why the load would change.
    As I have seen it, amps with lighter loads could run cleaner and more dynamic.Most amps have a sweat spot, in Ohms.Some like more and some like less.
    Thats a good question i will have to think about more.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • scottvamp
    scottvamp Posts: 3,277
    edited June 2002
    Scott Scott Scott....
    You disappoint me man. Go read the 1000 manual on polkaudio.com..... Top post for the mid AND tweet, bottom is speaker level input for the powered sub....Same for the 2000.
    Good call Russ, I did not check the manual. But it sounded good, right. Hey, I have been drinking Corona's since I got home today. But, I do remember that my CS400i is set up to be bi-amped that way. I will try not to dissapoint u anymore but u have to grade me on a drinking curve. Hee! Haa! :p
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited June 2002
    Man, look at the load of wind I posted about ohms above.... Made pefect sense last night, and not a lick of sense today...

    Jeez I need to TURN of the pc when consuming multiple glasses of cold suds.....

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • nascarmann
    nascarmann Posts: 1,464
    edited June 2002
    Jeez I need to TURN of the pc when consuming multiple glasses of cold suds.....

    Yah, but not close to the stupidity I show the other night after Mr Seagrams got ahold of me?:D
    Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited June 2002
    Yeah, I didn't make any 'moves' on other forums members at least...

    Man, you wanted to kiss Mantis, that is effed-up....

    Cheers,
    Hungover Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • nascarmann
    nascarmann Posts: 1,464
    edited June 2002
    OK! Let forget all that!

    KING SMOOCHER
    Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited June 2002
    Once and for all,

    This is MY take on how biwiring works.

    In a biwiriable speaker there are separate power inputs (binding posts) that correspond with the frequency ranges associated with the crossover point(s). In a 2-way speaker the freqs are crossed over at a fixed point and there are binding posts to the high freqs and low freqs. You HAVE to power both of them either with birwire cables or one cable and a jumper between posts. Remove the jumper and the nonpowered side gets no power. No power no sound. How simple is that? If you accept that, then Ken's test is valid and we can agree that the RT1000i can't be biwired.

    The benefits? Theoretically, Once the highs and lows have been separated in this fashion, the strong current pulses and surges that a woofer demands will not interact with the highs. A true separation of labor if you will. This is simply not possible with a powered tower.

    Hopefully, I don't need to add that bi-amping is the same principle except instead of using 2 wires from one amp, you are just using 2 amps. (which introduces other issues)

    That's my take, I'm OUT on this subject.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited June 2002
    Ug, man, I'm gonna puke from this post, I swear. Pickled eggs and Slim Jim's a spewin....any minute now....

    -R
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited June 2002
    this is pretty tedious, I admit.......mantis did ask a question though, and I don't like to leave a question unanswered.....


    Ima leave some warm creamed corn somewhere....

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,199
    edited June 2002
    OK,
    the only thing I don't understand is why a powered tower can't be bi wired.If you remove the jumpers,run speaker level to the top post, only the mid bass and tweeter work, the sub doesn't.The same happens if you remove the jumpers and run only speaker level to the sub, the sub goes but the top is now off.
    Thats the only thing I can't understand why everyone say you can't bi wire them.
    I can see you guys got an understanding on this mad topic.
    The 2 things I see is the fact its powered and the mid bass and tweeter aren't seperate.Did you know that there is a crossover in the top, not bi wirable as only one set of posts for the top,I can see that, but thats not the only part of the speaker.From 90 hz and down the sub has to reproduce.So As I see it the only bi wirable seperation of the speaker is removing the 90hz and down from the mid bass driver.There is where I see the bi wire ability in that type of speaker.
    I think i'm gonna join the drinking club.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • nascarmann
    nascarmann Posts: 1,464
    edited June 2002
    I think i'm gonna join the drinking club.

    :lol: Now your making sence!:lol:

    KING DRUNK
    Oh, the bottle has been to me, my closes friend, my worse enemy!
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited June 2002
    Right Dan, there IS a crossover on top but the bottom set of binding posts don't have anything to do with that crossover, it's as you say, speaker level to the powered sub.

    Look at it like this, if you ran speaker level to a powered sub with an RT35i, used the adjustable crossover and then ran a separate speaker wires from the sub to the 35i and a set of wires from the amp to the 35i's, is that bi-wired? No it's not. That is in essence what you guys are doing. Hey, if it works for ya, cool but it isn't biwired.

    I could be talking out my arse here but that's the way I understand it.

    Troy
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,199
    edited June 2002
    I agree with the rt35i thing but the rt1000p's are built in.
    I can rest ashore.It's fine.
    Lets end it with not quite bi wired but seperate speaker level to the sub section.I can live with that.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited June 2002
    OK, I'm just saying the principle is EXACTLY the same. Instead of two separate cabinets it's just one cabinet but the wiring principle is the same.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,199
    edited June 2002
    Its time to join the drinking club...cheers!!
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • vicentre
    vicentre Posts: 23
    edited June 2002
    After reading all the back and forth, i finally said freak it! i chucked the clips and ran wire to the top post from my amp and separate wires to the bottom posts of my RT1000is and i'll be damned if it didn't sound better. So the morale of this story is wether you want to call it bi-wire, bi-amped, under-wire, ghetto, or trailer park, it doesn't matter really. if i sounds better to you, go for it. At your own risk, of course.:p
    Home Theater Man Cave

    Display-Samsung PN60E550 | Receiver-Onkyo TX-NR809 | Sources-OPPO BDP-103, PS3, Apple TV | Speakers-PolkAudio; mains-RTiA7, center-CSiA6, surrounds-RTi70, back surrounds-RTi38 | Sub-SVS PB-1000 | Sennheiser HD-650 headphones | Schiit Audio Vahalla Headphone Amp | Pro-Ject Debut Carbon Turntable | Musical Fidelity V-LPS Mk II Phono Amp with upgraded power supply | Monster MP HTS 1600 power center
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  • rskarvan
    rskarvan Posts: 2,374
    edited June 2002
    Ok... I'm starting to become convinced that bi-wiring is a good idea - I have RT800i's. Would someone plz. explain WHY bi-wiring is a good idea? I don't understand the physics behind the bi-wire phenomina. Wouldn't replacing the jumper plate with some good quality wire be just about the same as bi-wiring?

    Maybe I don't understand it...
    Lets say you have a Denon 3801 receiver.
    You will run TWO sets of wires back to each out output?
    The 3801 has support for rear surrounds and two sets of side surrounds. Thats 10 speakers. Now, you are going to run double the wires into this thing for some magical improvement in sound? I just don't get it.

    Now, bi-amping, I can understand. Replacing a cheesy conductor plate (thats gold plated)... may make some sense too. Even going to a marginally bigger gauge (lower number) wire will reduce the resistance and have an effect. Maybe this is the bi-wire phenomina afterall. By doubling the number of wires, you are, in effect, doubling the cross sectional area of the wire and halving the wires resistance. Resistance = resistivity * length / cross-sectional area. Going to a bigger gauge speaker wire would have the same effect (or, even a larger effect since area = pi * radius^2nd).

    Would somebody from the ghetto or trailer park please explain?
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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,199
    edited June 2002
    Vicentre,
    Glad you tried it.And I see you got an Improved sound,thats exactly what happened the first time I Bi Wired my speaker's.I know everone has there opnion on how and can be bi wired,I don't care what people want to call it.It makes an audio difference.
    The entire reason of all my posts where to inspire someone to go try a wire test and post back results.
    I like to hear other people and what they came up with.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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