green/red/blue vs red/white/yellow

MrNightly

Ok. Allow me to show my ignorance for a minute.

On my cheapo memorex DVD player, it has the audio out in red/white and vid out in yellow (S-vid also available) and then on the other side, it has component out in green/red/blue.

What, if any, is the best way to go? I always hear component is the best, but what does that all mean? The red/white are the audio out, and the yellow is the video. What is really gained by putting all three into the green/blue/red component out side?

Thanks for humoring me.

David

Oh ya, do you turn on progressive scan or not?

danger boy

If you are just getting into home theater you will no doubt be confused by a lot of the jargon. And since the term component video is sure to befuddle just about everyone, here's a little primer on the subject. It might sound a little technical at first, but if you've got a DVD player, read on for some important information.

Starting at the beginning: RGB

Believe it or not, your eyes can see only three colors—red, green, and blue. All of the other colors and shades of the spectrum you perceive are the result of your brain interpreting the mix of red, green, and blue signals coming from your eyes. Pigments of your imagination, you might call them. (Sorry.)

Therefore, since your eyes only see red, green, and blue, a video system needs to capture and reproduce only red, green, and blue, or RGB as it's called. The camera must capture RGB on the front end. That information must be delivered accurately to your television or projector which must display RGB. By varying the intensity of red, green, and blue, every color of the spectrum can be reproduced. Voila. Perfectly natural color on your screen.


Component video consists of three signals. The first is the luminance signal, which indicates brightness or black & white information that is contained in the original RGB signal. It is referred to as the "Y" component. The second and third signals are called "color difference" signals which indicate how much blue and red there is relative to luminance. The blue component is "B-Y" and the red component is "R-Y". The color difference signals are mathematical derivatives of the RGB signal.

Green doesn't need to be transmitted as a separate signal since it can be inferred from the "Y, B-Y, R-Y" combination. The display device knows how bright the image is from the Y component, and since it knows how much is blue and red, it figures the rest must be green so it fills it in.

So what does all this mean to you?

If you want good picture quality, there's some amazingly good news here. The news is this: DVDs are encoded in component video!. This is a big step forward since VHS tapes and laserdiscs are encoded in composite video. So the signal information in those media is already diminished and compromised. But DVD is a different animal—not only is it more compact and easy to use, but a much higher quality format is on the DVD itself. All you need to do is take advantage of it.

To do that, you need a DVD player with component video output, and a television or projector with component video input. You can connect the two with a three-wire component video cable. When you do this, you transfer the high quality signal from the DVD straight into your display system without it ever being converted to composite video. The result—better detail, a cleaner picture, and more accurate and richer color.

But wait, there's more. Let's say you are one of the vast majority of consumers out there whose DVD player doesn't have component video outputs or your television or projector doesn't take component video input. What you then have is two connection options.

First, you can do what most people do--use the simple yellow (RCA) video jacks. Actually this cable is often bound together with the audio connectors to make it even easier—yellow for video and red and white for audio. Couldn't be easier, right? Big mistake.

The second connection option (the better option) is that you can use the clumsy 4-pin S-video jacks. This often requires a trip to the electronics store to get a more expensive cable. Most people don't want to bother. So they use the yellow RCA jacks because they are labeled VIDEO, and because that's the cable that came with the DVD player. Once they hook it up and turn it on, they find that the picture looks better than their VCR. So they are happy and forget about S-video. This is of course the wrong thing to do.

Why? Because by using the yellow RCA video jacks, you are forcing your DVD player to down-convert all that great component video information on the DVD to lowly composite video in order to transmit it to your television or projector. You lose much of the picture quality that the DVD can deliver by doing this. OK, it looks better than your VCR. But you aren't getting the best picture you can get.

So the alternative, S-video, is a MUCH better solution. An S-video cable actually carries two separate signals, one for luminance (Y) and one for chrominance or color (C). The Y signal is the same as in the native component video format. And the C is simply a combination of the B-Y and R-Y color difference signals. (Sometimes you will see S-video referred to as Y/C.) By keeping luminance and chrominance information separate on two wires it prevents most of the signal degradation that is inherent in the conversion to single-wire composite video.

So. If you've got a DVD player and want to give yourself an instant video system upgrade, replace the composite video RCA cable (the one with the yellow plugs) with an S-video cable (round connector with four little pins). It's simple and inexpensive, and you will get a much better picture.

Use component video if you have it

If you have component video output on your DVD player and your TV or projector can take that signal, use it. DVD players with this output usually have three RCA jacks which are color-coded green, blue, and red. They are labeled either Y, B-Y, R-Y, or alternatively Y, Pb, Pr, or Y, Cb, Cr. For practical purposes they are all the same thing. If your television or projector also has the same three RCA jacks, just connect them with a three-wire component video cable making sure the colors match up on both ends (or you can use three standard composite video cables to do the same thing).

Frequently a projector will take component video, but only through a VGA port, commonly a 15-pin D-sub like the output ports on a PC. In this case you will need a cable that has the three RCA jacks on one end for the DVD player, and a 15-pin D-sub VGA connector on the other. You can order this cable from most projector manufacturers that market projectors with this interface.

Progressive vs. interlaced component video

We've got one more important thing to cover on this topic. Component video comes in two flavors—progressive and interlaced. If you don't know the difference, read The Difference between HDTV, EDTV, and SDTV, then come back to this page.

There are three basic kinds of DVD players. First, there are those that have composite and S-video outputs only. Second, there are those that have composite, S-video, and component video interlaced (480i) outputs. Finally, there are those that have composite, S-video, and two forms of component video—component interlaced (480i) and component progressive (480p) outputs.

People often make a big mistake these days by going out to buy a DVD player knowing that "component video" is an important thing, but not being aware that there are lots of DVD players that output "component-interlaced only" and not component-progressive. Both products will say they are "component video" compatible, but if you don't know the difference, you can end up buying something you don't want. If your current video display system takes component-progressive 480p (or you intend to get one that does), you will need to make sure your DVD player offers this as an output as well.

It is important to know this when buying a projector or TV also. There are projectors on the market that will take component-interlaced 480i, but not component-progressive 480p. Some with take both, and some will take neither. The best picture quality will often come from matching a DVD player with a projector that both have component progressive 480p.

If a projector specification sheet says that it takes component video, DO NOT assume that it takes both 480i and 480p unless it specifically states that it is 480p or component-progressive compatible. Sometimes a specification sheet will state component video compatibility, but it means 480i only.

(NOTE: At this writing, if the line item "Component video" on our Projector Database specification sheets says "yes" it means that the projector will take either 480i or 480p but not necessarily both. We are presently in the process of upgrading our Database to include specific indications as to compatibility with component 480i and 480p individually in order to eliminate this confusion. But until that is done, be aware of the issue if you are currently buying a projector or large screen TV for your home theater.)

Conclusion

The way to get the best DVD picture is to use component video connections (if you have them) between your DVD player and your TV or projector. Component-progressive is preferred when you have both progressive and interlaced options.

For the vast majority of DVD users who don't have component capability in either their players or their display systems, the next best thing is S-video. If you are one of the large majority of DVD enthusiasts who are running composite video out of your DVD player and inadvertently degrading the picture as a result, give yourself a quality upgrade--get an S-video cable as soon as possible.

MrNightly

Wow. Very good info. Thank you Danger for that read. I learned a lot from it.

So, here's my second question. I have my DVD player running straight into my 3805 and my TV doing the same. From the article above, it sounds like I should run my DVD player into the TV then the TV into the ARV. If this is the case, I would need 2 (TWO) sets of component cables would I?!?

Should I rewire my config to do this? Or is it ok to run the DVD into the AVR and the TV into the AVR as well and let the Denon do what it was meant to do?

What to do...

WOW: I just looked online and noticed that a nice set of component cables are $100+ easy. Is it really worth it? From S-Vid??? Remember that would be x2 if I had to use two sets... yikes

thanks again

opus

MrNightly, I can't believe after my BFD/calibration lecture that I gave you that you would seek advice elsewhere:D. DangerBoy said exactly what I would have:rolleyes:

After reading Dangerboy's post I have a question. Will a SD tv display a 480p picture? I thought that they would not.
And for you MrNightly, how are you getting the audio from the dvd player to the '05?

HAPPY EASTER................kevin

Frank Z

No, a standard def. tv/moniter will not display a progressive scan signal. SD sets are interlaced only. the only way to see a progressive scan picture is to use an HDTV, or an EDTV (480p max resolution).

MrNightly

opus wrote:

MrNightly, I can't believe after my BFD/calibration lecture that I gave you that you would seek advice elsewhere:D. DangerBoy said exactly what I would have:rolleyes:

After reading Dangerboy's post I have a question. Will a SD tv display a 480p picture? I thought that they would not.
And for you MrNightly, how are you getting the audio from the dvd player to the '05?

HAPPY EASTER................kevin

It was rather informative

Regarding the player, I am running a red/white for audio and a yellow RCA for vid out to the 3805. Then I am running a yellow RCA monitor from the '05 to the TV.

I believe my tv has a built in HD tuner, whatever that means. It does accept component, and the player does as well. I just need to know how to hook all of it up

Happy Easter to you as well!

Frank Z

If you have multiple video sources (DVD/CATV/DBS) and only a limited number of component video inputs (one) on the tv, then you'll have to route component cables from all of your sources to the receiver and use it for video switch duties. Very simple and straight forward. Hook up the sources to the appropriate jacks on the receiver and then connect the Component Video Out from the receiver to the Component Video Input on the TV.

opus

MrNightly wrote:

It was rather informative

!

rather informative is my middle name. Well nevermind. Pm me your address(again) and I will send you a set of component cables to use for a while. See if you like it. People helping people:)

MrNightly

Frank Z wrote:

If you have multiple video sources (DVD/CATV/DBS) and only a limited number of component video inputs (one) on the tv, then you'll have to route component cables from all of your sources to the receiver and use it for video switch duties. Very simple and straight forward. Hook up the sources to the appropriate jacks on the receiver and then connect the Component Video Out from the receiver to the Component Video Input on the TV.

HA. Well, since I only know what DVD is outta the above mentioned three video sources (DVD/CATV/DBS), I'm gonna think I only have one source (DVD).

I can use one set of component cables from the DVD to the Receiver, and then I will need to run another set from the Receiver to the TV? That doesn't seem like the best way, is it? Or is it the only way?

The 3805 can handle 4 different component cables (3 in, 1 out) So I run the DVD to the Video 1 input, and the run the second set from the Monitor out to the TV set. Got it.

I think.

Either way I need two sets of cables. Phew. 6footers usually long enough? Anyone have good suggestion where to pick these up fairly cheap?

Frank Z

CATV = Cable TV
DBS = Satellite TV

MrNightly

opus wrote:

rather informative is my middle name. Well nevermind. Pm me your address(again) and I will send you a set of component cables to use for a while. See if you like it. People helping people:)

Very generous. I might take ya up on it. PM sent.

McLoki

MrNightly wrote:

It was rather informative

Regarding the player, I am running a red/white for audio and a yellow RCA for vid out to the 3805. Then I am running a yellow RCA monitor from the '05 to the TV.

You really want to get a digital audio cable (either Coax or optical - whatever your DVD player supports, you have free on the back of your 3805, or is cheaper) You will not be able to run Dolby Digital or DTS until you get a digital cable.

For video, I would run component (or DVI/HDMI if your TV supports it) straight from your DVD player to your TV. (you can leave the yellow cable you have in place now run to the TV so you can change settings with the 3805's on screen menu.

Let us know what you think of it,

Michael

george daniel

Alot of good information DB, great read

MrNightly

McLoki wrote:

You really want to get a digital audio cable (either Coax or optical - whatever your DVD player supports, you have free on the back of your 3805, or is cheaper) You will not be able to run Dolby Digital or DTS until you get a digital cable.

For video, I would run component (or DVI/HDMI if your TV supports it) straight from your DVD player to your TV. (you can leave the yellow cable you have in place now run to the TV so you can change settings with the 3805's on screen menu.

Let us know what you think of it,

Michael

Digital audio cable? Is this different than the Red/white that I am using now? I can select DD PL2 and DTS now on the receiver and it plays as normal.

Video wise, I can run component, (No DVI/HDMI on the TV) from DVD to TV. (Currently running DVD to AVR and TV to AVR).

As you can see, I know practically nothing about cables... interesting learning though. Thanks guys!

"Noob in the house"

opus

David, what kind of digital output does your dvd player have?

MrNightly

All I know is I am using a cheapo Memorex DVD player from Target ($49) and it has one set of composite, one s-vid and one component. I couldn't tell ya if it even has digital output. (It did say it is Dolby Digital on the player tho, with Pscan. Not that it helps much.)

I'll look up the model of my TV and DVD when I get back home from Easter sunday lunch with the folks. Mmm, good eatin here.

http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL027363&pathId=120&page=1 I think this is the one I have.

opus

get your pm first before dinner;)

MrNightly

opus wrote:

David, what kind of digital output does your dvd player have?

Kevin, it's got a Coaxial digital output.

Is this ok?

I've also got a Sony DVD player from HTrookie that I won in a karma.. but when i compared side by side with my cheapo player, couldn't tell a difference in picture quality. Duh.. didn't think the cables would matter that much Once I get up and running, I'll have to do a side/by/side again to see.

McLoki

Just to test it on the cheap - unplug the red wire from your DVD player and plug it into the digital Coax output. Unplug it from your AVR and plug it into the Digital Coax input (number 1).

You may need to do some work with the inputs to associate the digital Coax to selecting the DVD input on your reciever. (don't have the Denon so not sure how to do it)

Fire up a movie with decent surround effects (not to mention an LFE track) and see if you notice a difference. (I bet you will)

Michael

opus

Come on Polkies, there has to be someone out there that can can lend MrNightly a spare coax cable for a try out. Mine is on my DAC and he's not getting that:D I'm sending a component cable out Monday


kevin

Frank Z

PM me your addy

PolkThug

MrNightly, if you'd like me to come over and look at your setup, let me know, I'm in Shawnee as well.

MrNightly

You guys don't have to send cables I can go out and buy them ha.

I'm sure I'll need plenty, 'cause heck, it is a system that I've build from my shoe box in the closet cable wise

PT, If you had spare time, heck that'd be awesome! As long as you didn't laugh at my setup. remember, it's just temporary. I'm about a block SE from Shawnee Mission PKWY and Antioch. Let me know if you were serious, and I'll shoot ya my addy.

In the meantime, I'll check what Michael said to ensure the red I have isn't a beautiful coax cable in disguise. Here's to hoping.

But I know I'll need at least one set of Component cables regardless, but nobody has really pinned down how all that hooks up yet... guess I'll just plug and play until I fry something.

MrNightly

McLoki wrote:

Just to test it on the cheap - unplug the red wire from your DVD player and plug it into the digital Coax output. Unplug it from your AVR and plug it into the Digital Coax input (number 1).

You may need to do some work with the inputs to associate the digital Coax to selecting the DVD input on your receiver. (don't have the Denon so not sure how to do it)

Fire up a movie with decent surround effects (not to mention an LFE track) and see if you notice a difference. (I bet you will)

Michael

Ya, the only difference I heard, was sound only played from my Left Front Main. That's not what's supposed to happen is it?

Isn't there like an article I can read on how to hook a DVD, TV and AVR all together with Digital cables so I don't have to keep buggin' you guys?

If I grab a Coax cable, will that replace red/white or just compliment them? I know the Component cables will replace S-vid/yellow RCA.

Frank Z

The only way to get a dd 5.1 soundtrack, or DTS soundtrack to play is to connect your source (DVD player) to your receiver via a Toslink (fiberoptic cable) or a Digital Coax cable. You may need to go into your receivers On Screen Display (OSD) to turn on those inputs too.

BTW, most receivers are set up so that you must have an S-Video Connection between the receiver and the TV in order to display the OSD.

Frank Z

Almost forgot...lose the red and white audio connections. They carry an analog signal only and you don't need them unless you are connecting an SACD player.

McLoki

MrNightly wrote:

In the meantime, I'll check what Michael said to ensure the red I have isn't a beautiful coax cable in disguise. Here's to hoping.

I can save you the trouble of hoping.... It is not a digital audio cable. It should work as one in a pinch though. I should have had you disconnect the white cord. You forgot the part where I said you have to change the input source on your Denon reciver to point at the coax 1 port rather than the analog inputs.....

Change that and it will work. I will work, but I would still purchase a digital cable when you get your component cables.

You should be able to run the component cables from your DVD player straight to your TV. Use the cable you have now for a VCR or something and that will give you the ability to use the Denon on screen menu as well.

Try the hookup again and change the denon input this time....

Michael

OK - I looked it up for you, Hook the red wire to the coax out on your DVD player and to the coax 2 input on your 3805. that should solve you sound issue provided you hit DVD on the 3805 to play DVD's. (disconnect the white wire this time....)

Edit - BTW - information was found on page 20 of your manual... If you don't have it - you can get it here...

MrNightly

McLoki wrote:

I can save you the trouble of hoping.... It is not a digital audio cable. It should work as one in a pinch though. I should have had you disconnect the white cord. You forgot the part where I said you have to change the input source on your Denon receiver to point at the coax 1 port rather than the analog inputs.....

Change that and it will work. I will work, but I would still purchase a digital cable when you get your component cables.

You should be able to run the component cables from your DVD player straight to your TV. Use the cable you have now for a VCR or something and that will give you the ability to use the Denon on screen menu as well.

Try the hookup again and change the denon input this time....

Michael

OK - I looked it up for you, Hook the red wire to the coax out on your DVD player and to the coax 2 input on your 3805. that should solve you sound issue provided you hit DVD on the 3805 to play DVD's. (disconnect the white wire this time....)

Edit - BTW - information was found on page 20 of your manual... If you don't have it - you can get it here...

Sweet. I got it all set up properly with the "Fake" coax cable. I'll need to pick up one of those soon, and see if I can do a comparison to notice the difference. The sound did seem to open up quite a bit! Thank you.

I noticed when playing the Matrix lobby scene, that it only let me select Dolby Digital this time, and not DTS: Neo 6. I guess that is a good thing, because it recognized that the Matrix wasn't in DTS. Cool.

I guess I'm alittle confused about the component wires still, but when i get some, I'm sure it will make sense. Once I connect them from the source to the TV, isn't the signal lost if I change back to a RCA cord from the TV to Denon? It seems that I am sending Excellent signal with the Components, then crappy signal from TV to AVR?

Maybe I'm way off...

Sami

MrNightly wrote:

Ya, the only difference I heard, was sound only played from my Left Front Main.

You unhooked the right channel and put it into coax connection. I bet you forgot to change the sound source from analog to COAX1 (or similar) and now you are only getting the analog left channel. Unhook both left and right, hook the other to DVD COAX and AVR COAX, select the source and you should be good.

adam2434

I think most of this was said in previous posts, but thought it may be helpful to break it down into discrete steps.

If you do not have a cable or satellite box, this would be the simplest set-up:

1) DVD's video - component cable directly from DVD player to TV.

You would need to switch to this video input using the TV's remote when watching a DVD.

2) DVD's audio - digital coax from DVD player to receiver.

Verify that the DVD player's digital audio output is set-up correctly by setting the digital audio output to "raw" or "bitstream" or "Dolby Digital/DTS" using the set-up menus in the DVD player. You will know it's set-up properly if Dolby Digital or DTS lights up on your receiver's display when you select a respective sound track on a DVD.

You may also need to assign a digital coax input on your receiver. For example, set coax input 1 to "DVD" using the receiver's on-screen menus. Again, if Dolby Digital or DTS is lighting up on the display, you're good to go.

3) To get the receiver's on-screen menus to the TV - run composite video (single yellow RCA, cheap/freebe cable is fine) from receiver's "video out" or "monitor out" to a composite input on the TV.

You would need to switch to this video input using the TV's remote when using the receiver's on-screen menus.

4) TV's audio (assuming you have cable TV hooked up directly to the TV with no cable or satellite box) - 2 scenarios here:

a) If you have digital/high def cable service and if your TV has a built in digital/high def tuner - your TV may have a digital output (coax or optical) that will allow you to send Dolby Digital to the receiver. In this case, run digital coax or optical from the TV to the receiver and assign a digital input on the receiver as in 2) above.

b) If you have analog cable service, just run standard stereo RCAs (red and white) from the TV's audio out to a stereo input on the receiver. You could then choose a surround mode like Pro Logic II for TV broadcasts.

Let us know if you do have a satellite or cable box, as that will change things and require more video cables.

Also, I like to recommend Acoustic Research Pro Series II (some Best Buys carry them) and bluejeanscable.com for decent, inexpensive video and digital coax cables.

Adam

reeltrouble1

Wow, you guys are the best. I wish I had the patience to type all that out!!!

RT1