Why is Polk not respected?

TroyD

....for the record, I did NOT call anyone a snob or bash thier gear. NOR did I say anyone who BUYS a Sonus or whatever is a snob. I defy anyone to show me where I did. JESUS, buy whatever makes you happy. Certainly I harbor no resentment against those who buy it or like it. NOR did I say that the RT35i is as good as a Sonus Faber bookshelf. I was making an illustration which holds water. Is the Sonus worth 700 bones more than the Polk, it DEPENDS. There is no absolute answer. These are subjective issues guys. What we COULD debate is, say if you were to say that the Dynaudio 52 pounds out deep bass more so than the RT35i. We could debate that because the manufacturers specs don't support it.

Let's clear the air once and for all. I don't give a good **** if you like new gear, used gear or whatever you want. More to the point, I never did say anything to the contrary. It's just audio gear, not a reflection on your pesonal self worth. If you decide that you need to use a receiver for a preamp for whatever reason, and you are happy I think that's great. If you are out buying gear you really can't afford because someone else told you that you had to in order to have a "worthy" system (even if I think it's idiotic), hey, COOL.

I'm just making a comment on the economic factors of the whole deal, not a frigging personal assesment. What I did say is (and I think you will find that Polk does as much R&D as anyone else) that Polk, due to the volume of sales, doesn't need to recoup as much of it's costs on a per item basis. Microeconomics 101.

Troy:mad:

gidrah

I think Polk is respected. Anybody that is familiar with them respects them for what what they are.

I like Polks and used equipment. They both have a high reward/cost ratio. IMHO $300 in used Polks goes further than $300 in new anything else.

mantis

Troyd,
If you didn't call anyone a snob, then whats all the snob words in the last few posts on page one?
I remember reading that 700 more adds to the snob appeal.
Am I just taking you guys the wrong way...????what does snob appeal mean?what does pure snob factor mean??
Nasscarman,
No more then bi iwring rt100i's.....what because there powered,Let me tell you something,You still running seperate runs to the top half....mid range and high's, and another to the sub section.If you did your homework, you'll see the logic in that setup.So whats the difference if you make your own jumper's out of the speaker wire you use????Let me ask you this,why is there 2 set's of binding posts on the back of a rt1000i's?Why didn't Polk just put one pair on the back and wire the sub Internally?Why not just make the customer use line level?Why didn't they have the line level overide the speaker level when it's sensed?Research before you post.Teach me what I don't know about bi wiring.Give it a try.

Orangetoupee,
Tired of me and my posts??? DON'T READ THEM!!!

You guys take all the fun out of this forum,You guys start with comments like "snob", and then get your ****'s in a ringer when someone says something about what you posted....
How do you know I'm not wealthy????and take great offence to the snob remark.......remember the guy who was offended by the ghetto remarks we all joked about????he didn't think it was funny,I don't think the snob joke is funny.:(

gidrah

Budget is not necessarily ghetto
Rich is not necessarily snob

Out of curiosity, using a receiver as a preamp would make a person a wanna be what? Wanna be having a preamp and DD/DTS converter to hook to that amp? Wanna be having a receiver that wouldn't benefit from an amp upgrade?

TroyD

Let me break it down into words with small syllables. Snob appeal is roughly defined as the appeal that an object has to some folks purely on the notion that if it costs more, it's better. There are some folks, and for the record I don't think it applies to anyone on the forum (I defy anyone to show me where I even inferred it), that will buy things, not just audio gear, on that premise. Usually (pay attention because this is key) : these folks couldn't tell the difference anyway. The just buy what a salesman tell them is the best. This largely explains the popularity of the Bose Lifestyle systems. Are we clear on terms now?? Henceforth, I will no longer use the term snob appeal. Will "idiot factor" suffice? This does NOT apply if you geniunely appreciate an item for what it is. If this is your case, I would say that you are a person with discriminating taste. (that's a good thing)

One thing you will never see me doing is ridiculing a person's rig or how he has it setup (a jab in good humor, maybe). I might not agree and will give my opinion if asked but I will never call someone an idiot or tell him he is wrong because (and pay attention because this is important) this is a subjective hobby. There are precious few absolutes.

Personally, I don't give a tinkers damn what people make or who is rich or who isn't. All I care, in the context of the forum, about is that folks are happy and enjoy thier gear. If you are rich, I applaud you, it takes a lot of hard work. Me personally? I'm very comfortable with my situation and envy no one.

My **** isn't in a ringer but one thing that annoys me is when some one takes comments out of context. Trust me, if I was going to call someone a snob or any other name for that matter, there would be no room for misinterpretation. I do apologize for hurting anyones feelings in the case of an honest misunderstanding. Those that know me on the forum know that if I have no problem extending an apology when it is required.

Let's get back to the fun stuff, shall we??

Troy

briancs

I think Mantis made some rather good points! All it took was someone thinking rationally, and not emotionally. There were some other good points made. Another point that I feel should be brought up is if you have the money for a BMW you will not be looking at a CHEVY or a ford. Money or wealth puts you in a completely seperate class! Yes I also feel their is some snobbery by saying "since CC sells it I don't like it as much." I am sure those guys would like to have a 60" Sony Grand Wega or the 65" XBR. CC does sell a lot of quality products. It is just that those items are lesser known and the sales councelors don't make near as much money as someone at a "snob shop" to be able to educate you on a product. They are more oriented toward a quick run-down and serving a lot of consumers. Most of the people on here probably look down on my Jensen speakers. Hell for that matter so do I! (which makes us snobs to the Jensen fans if there are any) One day you other guys may have a larger budget and be choose to buy expensive speakers. If you do that you also will be dismissing brands. The only reasoning that I see is you would be above Polk RTi's or RT's in your mind.

Aaron

You guys are hilarious!

Aaron

nascarmann

Now that I have given this a little more thought, I am proud to be a wanna be! Running my receiver as a pre,tuner,prossesor works well for me and if someone bi-wires a powered tower and it works well for them, great!:D I would hate to see anyone get there panties in a wad over an audio forum? So, with that said I may change my name to KING WANNABE!

OrangeToupee

I'm with, nascarmann, although I'm not sure if I want to necessarily be a wanna be; I'm thinking more along the lines of someone with absolute and total power ... yes, either Caligula or Mantis ... I want to control peoples every action, and especially their entertainment source.

mantis

Allrighty then,
are we all over this?I am.
I'm glad we all got all that out.......weauuuu!!

mantis

You know,
let me address one more thing,
the whole receiver as a preamp.The only thing I feel well theres a few but the major one is just wasting the internal amps.People have there reasons for doing it, thats fine.I would give this advice......just check the ouput volatge so it closer matches the amp.Sensivity plays a big role.This applies to pre amps as well.
You know I thought about this for a while and It would be cool if receiver manufactors would release a preamp based on there receivers preamp.My reasoning is that the Denon avr3801/2 has a awesome preamp,now if you add lets say a Rotel RMb-1095,for center and rears, then a rb-1080 for mains.That would be a killer setup.The only thing would hinder that combe would be the output of the Denon's preouts.The volatge could be to low for the rotel's to run at max without distortion.Thats where the game gets tricky.I know the Denon's sub preout voltage is low compared to others on the market.Is only 6 volts at 0db.

TroyD

I hope we are over it, just a case of me not expressing my thoughts succintly enough........funny though, I don't remember mantis being all sensitive when dangerboy was angry about the use of the term "ghetto", which, for the record I apologized for and agreed to abstain from using.

I don't think that the voltage output is nearly that big of an issue, in reality. The whole premise of a passive preamp is that it just adds attenuation to an output of a device. In the case of my cd player the output is 2.2 volts and it works just fine. My line of thinking is that 6 volts is mucho plenty, kemosabe.

I feel that the amps in most recievers are not near the quality of a separate amp. Period. Actually by adding an amp to power the front channels.....that allows that much more power to go to the remaining channels so I don't see it as a complete waste. I also see it as an economical way for people to start upgrading to separates. Call me a wannabe but that's how I started.

Chief Whisper From **** (of the Asstalker tribe) who peacfully coexists with the kingdom of King Wannabe

tony27

i live in the ghetto and even though i dont like it, i can still grow my tomatoes

nascarmann

Chief Whisper From **** (of the Asstalker tribe) who peacfully coexists with the kingdom of King Wannabe

The Asstalkers will always be welcomed by the Wannabes!:D

madmax

I like systems with a certain amount of snob appeal. (stuff you look at and say if money were no object you would buy it) If you can get it at CC then it doesn't qualify. I also like stuff that performs 10% less than the best stuff but costs 90% less. I like homemade stuff too so long as it is built correctly and sounds reasonable. My system so far is a combination of the above. I think performance is where you find it. As far as I can tell if you are willing to buy used stuff and take your chances you can have whatever you want at reasonable prices. So what if it was first class LAST year. I don't care because I couldn't afford it last year. This year I can.
madmax

Micah Cohen

DING!

Round over!

Guys, keep in mind what I said earlier: This thread is being seen by the big brains in the front office. If you guys act like children, they will treat you like children, and all your good input and insight will get trivialized.

I think you're worth more than that. Prove it.

Sheesh. Behave.

MC

hoosier21

I agree 100% Mantis, using a receiver for a pre-amp is a big waste of my 3802's internal amps, but like I posted somewhere and you "wished" Denon (or others) would make, Show me a Pre/Pro that you can get for 600.00-800.00, I really don't get it. Use the SAME cabinet same remote same everything, pull out the internal 7 channel amp, list price 800.00 to 900.00, dealers sell it for 650.00 700.00 internet guy sells it for 450.00 to 500.00, they could not make enough of them. I bought my 3802 for 628.00 or so from the internet (I am sure I have no warranty) best deal for a preamp I could find, and the internal amps are used 0% of the time.

TroyD

Excellent point, which is one of the things I was trying to get at....a pre/pro is a pricey proposition. I think the cheapest that I have heard of is the Outlaw that goes for about a grand.....

I'm sure that there are tradeoffs for using the receiver instead of a pre-pro ( I haven't looked at the specs or done a demo so this is just spitballing) but it is more economical. It would to me seem to me that an economical way to put together a pretty decent HT/2channel rig is a receiver, 2 channel amp for the LR and a monoblock or bridged amp for the center and hook the rears up to the receiver....

BDT

rskarvan

REGARDING"
I read a book by John Delorean awhile back titled "On a clear day you can see General motors". In it, there was a description of the actual differences between an early seventies Cadillac and a Chevrolet Impala. the difference in cost to produce was about $500, the difference in price was several thousand dollars. Just a thought when comparing items.

MY THOUGHTS:
It is a serious mistake to think that cost and price are related at all. I know thats a big leap for some people... but, lemme explain... Costs are fixed. Labor is contracted (whether or not they produce). Economies of scale reduce unit cost with higher volumes - regardless of whether or not they sell. A chevy is less costly than a prowler simply because its a higher volume model.
Likewise, a prototype 4-cylinder econobox is more costly than any corvette. This is where snob appeal comes in. Snobs prefer unique new technology at low production volumes - regardless of cost. There is no reason that Thiel's, B&W, Martin Logans, etc, can not be made as inexpensively as Polks. Likewise, there is no reason that Bose sells for the same price as Polks. Its simply marketing.

Rolls Royce markets low volume at high profits. That doesn't make them any better vehicle. They are simply playing the game at a different part of the supply demand curve. But, its the same economics either way.

nascarmann

I bought my 3802 for 628.00 or so from the internet (I am sure I have no warranty) best deal for a preamp I could find, and the internal amps are used 0% of the time.

hoosier21

Welcome to my Kingdom!:D All WANNABES are welcome!

hoosier21

Beleive me I am a Charter member of the Wannabes.

gidrah

I wannabe a wannabe, but I don't know. Just because I have an amp that Stereophile says "makes speakers sound better than do tubes", I guess I'll just put in in the closet and use the amps from my JVC.:p

Where's the showcase?