Ok Parents, Your Thoughts On This

cfrizz

http://www.local6.com/news/8345157/detail.html

reeltrouble1

Mountain out of Mole Hill. A 12-13 year old crying to his Daddy says it all. A good lesson turned bad. Walk a mile in shoes, remember that one. There was no danger involved or safety issues, I applaud the school, there only mistake was picking a Jewish symbol. If they had said people with a blue star can drink out of this fountain, people with a red may not, it would of been less controversial. But they did not, so now they just have to take the heat.

RT1

Skynut

It seems pretty extreme since there was no advance notice.
Kids need to learn something about it before they engage in an experiment.

I might be peeved also if my kid were chosen to wear the star.

reeltrouble1

So a parent gets peeved, so what, tough tootsies. A parent might reinforce the learning lesson if they thought about it.

RT1

zombie boy 2000

reeltrouble1 wrote:

Mountain out of Mole Hill. A 12-13 year old crying to his Daddy says it all. A good lesson turned bad. Walk a mile in shoes, remember that one. There was no danger involved or safety issues, I applaud the school, there only mistake was picking a Jewish symbol. If they had said people with a blue star can drink out of this fountain, people with a red may not, it would of been less controversial. But they did not, so now they just have to take the heat.

RT1

+1
you'd be surprised how much anti-semitism still exists in some areas.....
my family uprooted itself from suburban Atlanta to move to rural Kentucky after getting a Green Acres itch while my brother and I were in high school...
one week in and my brother was called "Christ-killer" while riding the bus...
that comes from home, and it didn't take long to reach the "mouths of babes"

Skynut

That is true, after this experience the parent needs to sit down and discuss what took place.
It is important to remember History and how it impacts everyone.

audiobliss

linked article wrote:

"He was crying," Tinnelly said. "I said, 'What are you crying about?' He said, 'Daddy, I was a Jew today.'"

Sounds like it was an effective lesson.

steveinaz

Similar to the eye color exercise done in the 60's that the teacher caught hell for. Good experience in my book.

ND13

He should have been upset. Don't you think the real Holocaust victims were a little upset???

I do agree that, at the very least, the parents should have been notified of what was going to take place. I think it COULD have been done better.

shack

Heaven forbid the little darings were "traumatized".... Great way to learn a lesson as to how people should never, ever be treated. How better to understand an injustice than to experience that injustice?

Cathy...Since you are a black woman...how would you have felt if they had been told they were black children of the 40s 50s aond 60s and had to endure what those chidren went through.

HBombToo

Hell I went to Catholic school and remember the same sort of excercise which I'll never forget. How the hell else can a child learn that predjudice of any sort is WRONG???!

That said, I was floored the other day when my daughter asked what was wrong with her friend Addison because her skin was black. I promptly explained to her that there was nothing wrong and the difference is just the same as why I have blue eyes and she has brown... Natalia looked at me and said, "Thats good because really I like playing with Addison."

Henry

ohskigod

I think the parents would have minded less if they were given a heads up of some kind. lets put it into persepctive.

you just had a long day at work, you drive home in traffic. your tired, cranky. You just want to go home and schedule some serious couch time to unwind, then, all of a sudden, your kids crying because of what hapenned in school. Its not a simple explanation to handle with a kid when its somethng liek a holocaust experiment. That parent had no explanation for there kids, because they didnt knopw. After a long day at the office, I would be pretty pissed to be put in that position.

Some adequate debriefing time for the kids would have probably helped too. Counselors, hell even holocaust survivors to explain why the kids went through what they went through, to drive the point home.

My initial impression is, good lesson, could have been a great idea if not for what appears to be piss poor execution.

petrym

Parents should have been notified of the content of the day and the proposed scenario with the option of withdrawing their child. The children should have been told they were going to participate in a school-wide scenario but not what the scenario was to ensure they would be unprepared.

audiobliss

I don't quite get why the parents should have been notified. It was just an illustration to make a point. There was no discrimination. There was no deprivation. Sure, some had to stand for the day or couldn't use the water fountain or had to stand in the food line longer. Unless you got a broken leg, standing in class ain't gonna kill ya; unless you've been running outside all day, no water ain't gonna kill ya; and unless you've been without food for a few days, waiting in line longer ain't gonna kill ya. Should the teachers notify the parents everytime they're going to construct a model of the universe? Or of DNA? Or make cards for Mother's/Father's day?

dorokusai

I think they should have put pink triangles on some of them as well.

bpadget

It's a public school and the school board and community should have notification and opportunity for input in all matters of curriculum. The school administration over-stepped their bounds.

audiobliss

Zero wrote:

AB,

Haven't you been home school most of your life?

Aye, from second grade. Would've thought you needn't ask.

McLoki

ohskigod wrote:

Some adequate debriefing time for the kids would have probably helped too. Counselors, hell even holocaust survivors to explain why the kids went through what they went through, to drive the point home.

My initial impression is, good lesson, could have been a great idea if not for what appears to be piss poor execution.

+1

A great idea with poor execution. The "experiment" should have gone on for 2/3 of the day followed by a school meeting in the gym to explain what happened that day and how it relates to what happened to people in the holocaust.

A handout could have gone home with all the kids explaining the experiment to parents as well. This handout would provide additional information the parents could share with their children to help highlight the purpose of the experiment as it relates to the holocaust and discrimination in general.

Advance notice to the parents should not have been needed, but information from the school to help parents understand the experiment (and giving the parents some ideas of good ways to answer the inevitable questions) would have gone a long way towords preventing the backlash they are getting.

Michael

irishaz

Just another example of whiny kids and incredibly whiny parents. I have four kids in public school and not only would have applauded the school's efforts, I would have reinforced the lesson when they got home.

Parents are so freakin' ridiculous these days. My kids don't even get graded using A's and B's, etc. any more. Now it is some touchy-feely, retarded grading scale that is supposed to make kids feel better about themselves. Unbelievable. These are the same parents that don't want kids to keep score when they play sports.

The school taught all the kids - both sides - a valuable lesson. So one little whiny kid got their underoos in a bunch. If one of my kids came home crying after that lesson (and they wouldn't), I would have lit them up. I imagine that some of the kids that were involved might have actually learned something about themselves and the dangers of discrimination. The school doesn't need my permission to teach that...

bpadget

audiobliss wrote:

Or make cards for Mother's/Father's day?

How about the child whose mother died last year or the Jehovah's Witness, who doesn't celebrate Mother's or Father's day? As simple and silly as it might seem, the school could be in serious trouble for proceeding with this "experiment" without notifying everyone who might be involved

Demiurge

bpadget wrote:

How about the child whose mother died last year or the Jehovah's Witness, who doesn't celebrate Mother's or Father's day? As simple and silly as it might seem, the school could be in serious trouble for proceeding with this "experiment" without notifying everyone who might be involved

That's sad, and speaks to the oversensitivity of society.

bpadget

Demiurge wrote:

That's sad, and speaks to the oversensitivity of society.

You can't have it both ways. The school was trying to teach sensitivity on a grand scale and failed to observe sensitivity on a individual scale.

Polkersince85

Like Steveinaz said, the exercise is "similar" to the study done in Iowa in the mid 60's. The one day exercise apparently was a crude attempt to recreate the Iowa study. Sounds like the Instructors had an agenda and wanted to influence the children. In the Iowa study. the exercise went on for a longer period and the children swapped roles with 'teaching" in the mix. Probably better executed than the more recent one. As for the whiners. maybe give them a Xbox360 with their choice of three games and let them sleep in for a week. Maybe that will make them feel better. Don't want to hurt anybody's feelings do we.

MacLeod

I think the whole thing is stupid. Call me crazy but I believe school should be about teaching reading, writing and arithmatic and thats it. Leave the social engineering out of it! Public education is a joke in this country and next to terrorism, is about the biggest problem we've got! Yay vouchers!!

bpadget

I have more objections to this experiment. This could actually have some long term unintended consequences. There is going to be a group of students that were will not understand the difference between being persecuted for a day and being persecuted for a lifetime. They'll come away from this with the attitude that "Hey, it wasn't that bad."

cfrizz

Very good question Shack!

All I can tell you is that I grew up in "Free State" Boston Mass. I didn't know that Boston had a racism problem until 1973-4 when it was declared that Boston public schools were segregated & had to be desegregated!

I didn't understand why us kids in Roxbury, Dorchester, & Mattapan had to be put on a bus and driven all the way to South Boston & Charlestown when we could have walked up the street to the school there! (I was fortunate enough that I wasn't one of the ones picked to do this.)

I didn't understand why all these white people were yelling & screaming at innocent kids.

When I asked my Mom & Dad, then they tried to explain to us about racism & that SOME people don't like us for the color of our skin. BUT it is not everybody! There are good & bad people of all colors & nationalities.

Naturally I read about slavery & the Holocaust in grade school, but didn't really have a frame of reference. Until in HS when we spent an entire semester learning about the Holocaust & watching Winds Of War for class & they even brought a survivor to school who told us about it & showed us his tatooed arm labeling him as a Jew! He also informed us that blacks & homosexuals were also labeled. Then I could understand about the Holocaust.

I wish I had gotten the same kind of info about racism. It wasn't until I was an adult & I watched some movie depicting the 50's & 60's racism of the south that I truly learned what went on & got it confirmed by a friend at work who lived in the south during that time what would go on.

This movie shocked the hell out of me, cause I knew that blacks had to go to the back of the bus. What I didn't know is that they had to pay up front, then GET OFF & get in from the back door cause they weren't allowed to walk past the white people! I was incensed! I just didn't have a clue.

Our parents didn't dwell on this kind of stuff even though they no doubt were subjected to it. I asked my Mom about it & she said that during WW2 when workers were needed badly all over, she was always turned away from jobs that were in Charlestown & South Boston.

But hey they didn't want some black woman doing one of thier jobs, anymore than they wanted black kids going to school with their kids some 30 yrs later!

So in answer Shack, the next lesson that should be taught is pick up the kids in a bus & all the white kids should be forced to pay & then get off & walk to the back door to get on! & make sure they only use the restroom in the basement. And they can only have a squared of small section of the cafe in which to eat lunch, & make sure it isn't what all the black kids are eating, etc.

This will do more for showing these kids what racism truly is a lot better than ANY history book!

shack wrote:

Cathy...Since you are a black woman...how would you have felt if they had been told they were black children of the 40s 50s aond 60s and had to endure what those chidren went through.

reeltrouble1

bpadget wrote:

You can't have it both ways. The school was trying to teach sensitivity on a grand scale and failed to observe sensitivity on a individual scale.

Yea its all about the individual, otherwise eff it, Army of One baby.

I am reminded of the phrase "its your world I am just living in it."

The school did not fail its objective. The lesson appears to learned, hope it sticks, of course exposure to discrimination of a group can certainly teach one how to discriminate against a group.

RT1

Demiurge

bpadget wrote:

You can't have it both ways. The school was trying to teach sensitivity on a grand scale and failed to observe sensitivity on a individual scale.

Oversensitivity is what it is. Coddling to every tom, dick, and harry's need is a waste of time and leads to crap like this.

In any event I agree with Macleod.

AsSiMiLaTeD

yeah, let's just leave the social engineering up to the parents...sure that'll work...

audiobliss

And so you'd rather leave it up to the government and whoever they decide to hire? Yeah, sure...that's a better alternative.

I think God needs to just kill us all with another flood and start over again!

MacLeod

Polkmaniac wrote:

yeah, let's just leave the social engineering up to the parents...sure that'll work...

Exactly! Its the parents job to instill morals and values in their kids, not the governments. It has no business being in public schools.

Thats the beauty of school choice. You want your kids to go to a Catholic school and learn those values, then you can send them there. If you prefer a Jewish school, or a non-religious school or even a public school, you can send them there.