New CD or add a DAC?

BSUfbfan

Hi all,

Now that I have upgraded my amp & preamp, I want to upgrade the source next. I am currently using a DVD/CD player for playback, and need to decide whether to buy a dedicated CD player or just add an out-board DAC. I have done a bunch of reading, and it seems alot of people out there have had good luck running a high-quality DAC with their DVD/CD players (mine's a Denon), and then they can change or upgrade their source unit at any time and still keep the DAC in the loop.

What do you guys think?

Mike

opus

Hey Mike, As a proud graduate of Meridian High class of '83 let me tell you my thoughts. I recently added a DAC ( thanks Madmax) to my gear and will never be caught without one. It has changed the way I listen and how I listen to my cd's. I am still a newbie in the audio world but I feel I can relate what a external DAC did for me. It was a economical way to upgrade and was well worth the money. I now listen at lower levels and am amazed at the detail of music. I no longer feel the need to knock things off the walls to get my kicks. For what it did for my sub they ought to include one with every SVS they sell. Could I have got this same response by upgrading the CDP? Maybe, I just don't know. Let the experts tell you that. But for this "Warrior" it was the way to go.


kevin

BSUfbfan

Kevin,

Thanks for the reply. I am actually a dredded Boise "Brave", but I now live just down the street from Meridian High, so my boys will both be "Warriors". I imagine you heard that Meridian won the state football championship last year? They were very dominant.

Glad to hear that you are liking the results of the DAC. What brand do you have? Didn't see it in your sig. I have seen the Arcam's and the Parasounds for relatively good prices. Like you, I am looking for the detail in the music and not looking to shake pictures off the wall (probably couldn't anyway with the CRS's), so this upgrade is very interesting to me.

Take Care.

Mike

audiobliss

He bought an Audio Alchemy Dac 1 or some such from madmax in the FM a while back.

danger boy

Mike,
what amp and pre amp did you just get? Here is what i would do... how does your player sound right now hooked up to your pre amp? It is connected with RCA's or digital connection?

I too use a DAC. It's an older tube DAC no longer made by California Auido Labs. High end in it's day. As recent as last night i was still amazed by it. I did an A-B compairison with and without the DAC coming out of a NAD CD player. The DAC won hands down every time with several different types of music.

I was nearly thinking of selling it off... but after hearing what clarity it brought out of the CD's. I decided not to sell it after all. Mine is Calif Audio Labs (CAL) Alpha Tube DAC. they can be had for about $350 and up. Original MSRP was $1,495 :eek:

BSUfbfan

Dangerboy,

I updated my sig. so you can see the new equipment. I am definitely loving the sound of the system, and it has gotten much better with each upgrade which has been fun to listen to the changes as I go. I just think that there is room for improvement because my Denon DVD/CD player is the model DVD-910 which is not the cheapest DVD, but definitely not TOTL either. The player is hooked up RCA level to my preamp, and I assume the on-board DAC is pretty lousy.

A TUBE DAC....very,very interesting. I didn't even think of going that route, but I will add it to my search list.

Thanks for the recommendations.

Mike

heiney9

DAC all the way. Lot's to choose from on the used end.

H9

opus

BSUfbfan wrote:

Kevin,

Thanks for the reply. I am actually a dredded Boise "Brave",

Well then we can't talk anymore. I recommend you sell your system and by a nice Bose Wave Radio:D

halo

I asked the same question a while back LINK. I got the opportunity to demo SCompRacer's Parasound DAC 2000 ULTRA and there was a slight difference.

After deciding to go with a CDP > a DAC I got a Rotel RCD-1070 CDP and got the same results in SQ that the DAC provided for less than the cost of a used 2000 Ultra.

Thanks, again, to SCompRacer I was able to audition a tube CDP - the Ah! Super Tjoeb 4000 w/ Tjo upsampler - and this time there was a major difference in SQ. Unfortuneately the Ah! - even used - was out of my price range

ND13 picked up a Sheng Ya CD-S10 tube CDP and had been raving about it LINK. A little research provided a lot of info and plenty of positive reviews. It cost much less than the Ah! so I started looking for one. After a couple of months of near misses I managed to snag one.

I thought there might've been a problem with it (one tube was glowing brighter than the other - this thread may help explain it: LINK Post #'s 3, 4, 5, & 10.) so, before I knew about the tube compliment, I gave it to SCompRacer for some diagnostic work and I had to go back to the Kenwood.

I couldn't stand it :mad: (the Kenwood) - flat lefeless sound. I didn't know how long I'd be without it or if it could be repaired - so I started looking for a replacement. I stumbled on a Kavent (which is just a re-badged Sheng Ya / Vincent) & after plugging it in to the rig I noticed an immediate difference in SQ - nothing subtle about it. A little tube rolling (with the proper tubes) and It got even better .

For the price I paid for these tube CDP's I'd be hard pressed to find a decent DAC. The best part about a tube CDP is that, by tube rolling, you can tailor the sound to your liking. With a DAC or SS CDP what you've got is it. Except for db's tube dac.

danger boy

Nice Halo, good post. would love to see some pics of your CDP. Just curious. is it new or used? What tubes have you tried with it so far?

halo

Thanks db

I purchased both CDP's used. Since the Kavent is the only one I've had working properly - and since Rich still has my Sheng Ya (he's conducting his own shootout with the Ah!) - the tubes I've tried are

• 12AU7: stock Chinese 6n4, RCA blackplate, and Raytheon.

• 6DJ8: Amperx BB, Brimar, Matsushita, Ei elite gold pin

• 6922: JAN Phillips (green)

I've got more tubes here (6DJ8's: JJ Tesla, & EH) and some on the way but the Raytheon & Ei elite combo has been the best so far.

BSUfbfan

The AH! tube CD players show up pretty reasonable on audiogon. For a single source kind of guy like myself, I would probably get the best sound by purchasing the AH! and hooking it directly to my amplifier and sell my new preamp to help pay for it. Hmmmmmmmmmm. The audio world is a twisted journey.

halo

I wouldn't reccomend that. Rich tried it with his Ah! and at minimum volume on the Ah! he said it was way too loud. Look for the used Kavent's & Sheng Ya's. Almost, if not identical SQ for a lot le$$ Volume control too if you want to try and run it straight to the amp (they have slightly less gain than the Ah!).

Audiogon prices on the Ah!'s (Super 4000 with Tjo upsampler) are usually around $900

The highest price I saw a Kavent CD-731 go for was $550 but they can be had for as little as $400.

The le$$ you pay initialy for the player the more you can spend on tube rolling

BSUfbfan

Good points. I would probably keep the preamp anyway in-case I ever want to add a second source. That Kavent is a good-looking player, is that a tube-window in the middle? WOW. Very true about saving the money up-front on used and spending it on tube rolling. Thanks for all the valuable input on your tube preferences by the way.

I will keep looking at the used site's, but ordering a new sheng-ya is in the budget, and I wouldn't HAVE to pay someone to change the 240v - 120v as I can easily add a 240v outlet to my equipment location (it's located in my converted 3rd garage bay with the elec. panel).

I just saw on A-gon that someone just sold an AH! with upsampler for $750.....shoot!

steveinaz

I'd get a DAC. This gives you the option of slowly upgrading the transport, and still getting relatively good fidelity while you work your way up the ladder..

Having a good external DAC is like building a computer based on a great motherboard; it gives you flexibility and upgradability, while providing good performance along the way.

BSUfbfan

steveinaz wrote:

I'd get a DAC. This gives you the option of slowly upgrading the transport, and still getting relatively good fidelity while you work your way up the ladder..

I am seeing used tube CD players for not much more than the price of a good used tube DAC though......

fredv

I happened to audition this cdp, http://store.acousticsounds.com/browse_detail.cfm?title_ID=16536&keywords=froogle
2 weeks ago in Hong Kong. It was the sweetest cdp that I ever heard, and the price was approx half of acousticsounds (but I didn't know at that time). Unfortunately, the unit was only 220V. I was somewhat skeptical to use a stepup transformer and passed. Now I regret I didn't snap it, but I will definitely keep my eyes on this used one.

halo

BSUfbfan wrote:

That Kavent is a good-looking player, is that a tube-window in the middle? WOW.

Both the older and newer Kavent CDPs have a tube window with led lights - you can shut them off or choose between three levels of brightness. The older Sheng Ya has the same thing but it has a larger window. The remote for the Kavent is a sturdy piece of aluminum - very heavy.

BSUfbfan wrote:

Very true about saving the money up-front on used and spending it on tube rolling. Thanks for all the valuable input on your tube preferences by the way.

I've only scratched the surface as far as rolling - most of the 6dj8's were swapped out with the Raytheon 12au7 up front. I will say that as soon as I put that Ei in the back my jaw hit the floor. I was stunned at the difference in SQ between the Ei elite and all the others.

BSUfbfan wrote:

I will keep looking at the used site's, but ordering a new sheng-ya is in the budget, and I wouldn't HAVE to pay someone to change the 240v - 120v as I can easily add a 240v outlet to my equipment location (it's located in my converted 3rd garage bay with the elec. panel).

Very cool! :cool:

BSUfbfan wrote:

I just saw on A-gon that someone just sold an AH! with upsampler for $750.....shoot!

There will be others. Patience is the key

halo

BSUfbfan wrote:

I am seeing used tube CD players for not much more than the price of a good used tube DAC though......

Yup, that's why I went the CDP route

BSUfbfan

Halo wrote:

There will be others. Patience is the key

Indeed! There is a company that sells the Sheng Ya CD-10 on ebay for $536 shipped to my door (including tracking number). He has great feedback, but I would be nervous ordering from over-seas.

Anyone ever done this?

halo

Ordering the Sheng Ya - be it from ornec.com or that particular seller on eBay - it's going to ship from China. Ornec is a company that specializes in this stuff and, as far as I know, they use FedEx and the price is very similar if not the same.

fredv

BSUfbfan wrote:

Indeed! There is a company that sells the Sheng Ya CD-10 on ebay for $536 shipped to my door (including tracking number). He has great feedback, but I would be nervous ordering from over-seas.

Anyone ever done this?

There is a hidden cost - custom duty.
I did a similar thing in the past. The shipping company (TNT) sent me a bill 2 months later to reimburse the duty and handling fee - about $43 for an item that costed $250.

BSUfbfan

Halo wrote:

Ordering the Sheng Ya - be it from ornec.com or that particular seller on eBay - it's going to ship from China. Ornec is a company that specializes in this stuff and, as far as I know, they use FedEx and the price is very similar if not the same.

Gotcha, I'd rather use the specialist any day....

halo

fredv wrote:

There is a hidden cost - custom duty.
I did a similar thing in the past. The shipping company (TNT) sent me a bill 2 months later to reimburse the duty and handling fee - about $43 for an item that costed $250.

Customs can be affected by the shipping co. UPS adds fees up the wazoo.

heiney9

Here's a nice combination. Monarchy Dac's are absoultely excellent. High end, high quality, mid price. When I do my upgrade this piece is on my short list.

Tube Dac w/ line stage tube amp. Might as well consider all options

http://www.monarchyaudio.com/tubedac.html

H9

BSUfbfan

Alright guys,

So I have pretty much decided on a tube CD player, now the tough question. It seams that the import CD players, such as the Sheng Ya, have a pretty loyal following and great reviews. But, if there is ever an issue, what do we do with these units to get them serviced? Is it worth paying a few hundred extra for a used American built player such as a CJ to be sure that service can be performed at a later date?

I value your opinions, thanks.

Mike

steveinaz

How about a Ah! Njoe Tjoeb?

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/view_category.asp?cat=37

halo

The Kavent (US version / conversion of the Sheng Ya) is available from HERE. They are located in New York - phone # (914) 815-1267. I'm sure they come with a warranty.

On the other hand, if you went with the Sheng Ya from China you could have two new players for less than the cost of one new Ah! You might want to check with ornec and ask about warranties.

The Sheng Ya & Kavent are built like tanks - btw.

McAlister Audio can perform repairs and or modifications. He is in Canada & it's worth the postage.