I was just sitting here pondering...

ND13

on what actually made the most improvement in my system, other than speakers. I know Jesse will say that his source made the the biggest improvement in his, but I guess that would have to do from what you started with as a source. In my rig, the biggest, bestest, and most noticeable improvement came the day I put the ELP inline. It was night and day. Don't get me wrong, I'm a firm believer in having a strong source and the Sheng Ya did make an improvement. The thing is, my AMC CD8b that I got from Sean was modded with upgraded dacs and opamps, so it was already a well above average source and I'm pretty sure that I'll always keep it around for the second rig or as a backup if needed. There's no way I can come close to it's performance for what I have in it.

So, getting to the point....

other than speakers, what piece of gear made the most dramatic improvement to your 2-channel rig? I'm not really wanting to know about your HTs, no offense. This is about reproducing music, not soundtracks.

Tour2ma

First, came my Carver M-1.5t... Prior to it, I'd never owned more than 50 wpc. The authority the Carver brought was jaw-dropping. My current Sunfire is more refined, but the move to it produced a more subtle improvement.

Second, came my SRS's. They replaced a pair of mid-line Yammie speakers (still around). 'Nuff said...

Third, came my dbx 3BX-III. This little expander is a magic box. It brings dynamics to LP's, cassettes and even FM, that are compromised out of these media.

Fourth, came my B&K AVP 2000. It replaced a "nice" Yammie pre. When I first heard the B&K in my rig, it was like a veil was lifted off of my system. Detail, warmth, soundstage all improved dramatically.

If I have to choose among the above four, it's tough, but I'd go with the Carver experience. There's just no substitute for gobs of reserve power/ current.

Adding other speakers, e.g., Maggies and CA's, have produced more recent ear-to-ear grins. Some roll tubes... I roll speakers.

Many of the added electronics, i.e., pre's, amps, DAC's, TT's, etc., through the years have produced a smile here and there, but again, more subtle changes.

SCompRacer

My tube amp had a great impact. Then the pre amp (Dodd MLP), then the source (Ah with upsampler). Surprisingly, the old Adcom GCD-575 CDP I had did very well.

The Sheng Ya is a great CDP. Just have the correct tube in the back socket (12AX7/12AU7, for power supply) and the 6922 or equivalent in the winder (I know, window). 6922's burn bright back there. No sound degredation but tube life would be short. The Sheng Ya is on par with my Ah! with upsampler which sounds as good as a Parasound Transport/Ultra 2000 DAC combo.

ND13

SCompRacer wrote:

My tube amp had a great impact. Then the pre amp (Dodd MLP), then the source (Ah with upsampler). Surprisingly, the old Adcom GCD-575 CDP I had did very well.

The Sheng Ya is a great CDP. Just have the correct tube in the back socket (12AX7/12AU7, for power supply) and the 6922 or equivalent in the winder (I know, window). 6922's burn bright back there. No sound degredation but tube life would be short. The Sheng Ya is on par with my Ah! with upsampler which sounds as good as a Parasound Transport/Ultra 2000 DAC combo.

Thanks to Victor and Rich for doing a little research on the tube complement for the Sheng Ya/Kavent/Vincent CDP. Who'd figure that the manufacturers site would be wrong, huh?? I just put the hood back on the cdp and put an Ei Elite 12AX7 in the power stage(winder) and a gold pin Amperex 7308 in the output stage. I've been wanting to utilize that tube forever and never did, because I THOUGHT I didn't have anything that only took one 6922.6DJ8/7308. So I should be hearing an improvement in afew more minutes of warm up time, hopefully.

SCompRacer

I knew something was up when he had me check it out and I found the rear tube (power supply) had twice the voltage as the window tube (output stage). Triode tubes contains two fully functioning tubes, so if you have a 1/2 bad tube in either location, you will lose one channel. I popped an EI 12AX7 in the power supply socket and lost the right channel. Tried another tube and it came back. Scary stuff, Victor would never forgive me if I screwed it up.:eek:

It shows that running two channels out of one tube works fine. Cut's your tube rolling costs by 50% too.:cool:

EDIT: It appears you can get a Sheng Ya (or Vincent) where the front tube in the winder is the power supply tube and a 6922 will glow cherry red if it's in that location. I woulda figured they would all be wired the same. Thanks for the info Victor.

polkatese

For me, it has to be the source, and strongly believed in modded source, be it DVD player/universal/CDP. One modder whom I have a lot of confidence in, is Alex Peychev. I have two of his products, and saving my coins for his next level.

aplhifi.com

heiney9

Outboard DAC 1st biggest imrovement, 2nd biggest improvement was taking time to place the speakers properly and finally, cables made a nice subtle but noticeable change. I tend to be set in my ways, but just changing things up with the cables and placement really gave my system new life. I feel right now I am at the limit of my RTA's.

Next upgrade will be new speakers and then different amplification and then different pre. That's the order I'd like to do it in, but depends on what deals come first. I'm gonna try to do it in steps so I can evaluate each change independent of the other.

H9

Early B.

For me, the introduction of a tube integrated amp made the biggest difference, by far. Next, the source (tube CDP), then speakers.

halo

ND13 wrote:

Thanks to Victor and Rich for doing a little research on the tube complement for the Sheng Ya/Kavent/Vincent CDP.

It all started quite by accident. I happened to be behind my rig and noticed the tube in the back glowing brighter than the one in the front. The positions of the the tubes are different on my Kavent and my Sheng Ya. My Sheng Ya has the 6V tube in the back and the 12V tube is up front - whereas my Kavent has it reversed. When I noticed the tube glowing I asked Rich to check it out. A week later I bought the Kavent, noticed the same problem & thought it was too much of a coincidence so I contacted the manufacturer. I couldn't do it with the Sheng Ya since it is made in China but the Kavent is a Vincent/Sheng Ya imported to the USA and modified by Kavent @ KAVD. One e-mail to them and the mystery was solved.

ND13 wrote:

Who'd figure that the manufacturers site would be wrong, huh??

They didn't have it wrong - the specs state that the CDP has a 6922/6dj8 tube output - which it does. The 12V is for the power supply - they just "forgot" to mention that :eek: Maybe it was lost in the translation

Now to the original question:

For me it all happened in stages. I got an improvement EVERY time I made a change.

1. Rotel separates > Onkyo Integra receiver
2. AMP:Parasound Halo A23 > Rotel 980BX
3. IC's:Signal Cable Analog Two's > AQ Sidewinder's
4. CDP:Sheng Ya CD-S10 > Kenwood DP-5070

Speakers - I started my Polk journey with R50's and I've tried Monitor 10A's (Peerless), 10B's, Monitor 11's (Peerless), RTA 11T's (upgraded), to RTA 15TL's (upgraded) with a brief experiment with some Carver AL III +'s.

halo

SCompRacer wrote:

EDIT: It appears you can get a Sheng Ya (or Vincent) where the front tube in the winder is the power supply tube and a 6922 will glow cherry red if it's in that location. I woulda figured they would all be wired the same. Thanks for the info Victor.

I was typing my reply when you edited the info bud Thanks for all the help BTW

adam2434

Going to separate amps (Audiosource Amp Threes monobridged) from a receiver (Pioneer Elite 45TX) to power my LS90s.

Yep, they're entry-level amps. But even so, the dynamics, transients, separation, bass slam and control were significantly improved - music sounds more alive and forceful.

danger boy

I know you said no HT. BUT, i now ACTUALLY use my HT rig for 2 ch listening.

Two weeks ago i got an Outlaw Audio 990 pre amp. I have been re-listening to my CD's again.. (in 2 ch. bypass/stereo) just to hear more out of them again. Going from a receiver to this pre amp has made more difference/improvement than any other piece of gear i've ever purchased new or used.

I know others will say source.. but for me. it's been the pre amp. The pre amp made everything ELSE sound better. I always thought my Marantz 4300 CD was a piece of doo doo.. now I know it's not. It was my crappy receiver that was holding back the entire system. No matter what source.. hands down it's the pre amp IMHO that will make the biggest difference in a system. (assuming your system is seperates).

halo

heiney9 wrote:

I feel right now I am at the limit of my RTA's.

You aren't there yet bro Give the silk domes a try and rebuild those x-over's. New speakers they will be

heiney9 wrote:

Next upgrade will be new speakers H9

:eek: :mad: See above

ohskigod

going to tube pre's made a huge difference in my mind. it just gave me the sound I wanted.

Going the tube cd player route with the Jolida, while not the dollar for dollar best improvement, was a huge step in the right direction for me. It's gonna be a while before source is an issue again for me.

I put the Carver Platinums in third only because it wouldnt help a system without the right equipment. cant just chuck these things on any piece and see a huge improvement. It takes the right stuff behind it, and alot of effort in correct placement to get what you want out of these.

My Carver amp, while fourth, really openned the system's capabilities and performance. Just gobs of good power on tap, and sound is allright by me. Maybe a little to light for the amazings? but emphasis on little, and there are not many speakers that are cheaper than mid size cars this thing wont drive.

madmax

Early B. wrote:

For me, the introduction of a tube integrated amp made the biggest difference, by far. Next, the source (tube CDP), then speakers.

Same for me. The tube amp started it all by making such a difference.
madmax

Shizelbs

For me it was going to seperates. In my case, specifically the amp.

steveinaz

My speakers made the biggest improvement, followed by my DAC.

hoosier21

bobby pin then q-tip, major improvement

reeltrouble1

When I added electricity.

RT1

reeltrouble1

Ok, seriously, well, as serious as I can be today.

The Rig is a by definition a System of interdependant parts. The problems of any System are Systemic to that System.

Therefore:

If the Rig is dependent upon its individual parts
and one of the parts is changed
then the way the parts function together is changed

RT1

W WALDECKER

i cant put a definitive label on which component made the most difference in my two channel rig. it has more to do with how well the sum total of the parts interact with each other. my system has great Synergy and that is why it is hard to put my finger on exactly which component has made the most difference in my rig. everything makes a difference.thanks....WCW III

reeltrouble1

Exactly William. You cannot change any one component without causing change to the entire system.

RT1

wingnut4772

For me it was speaker placement and acoustic treatment. I use my Ht rig for 2 channel so the next biggest improvement was the Earthquake amp.

organ

TUBES baby!

I remember getting my Dyna and hearing it for the first time on my LSi9. Sure it wasn't the best synergy but all the good things about tubes soared through the speakers. I can honestly say that it was the first time I heard the mids sound "right" in my system.

Airplay355

My MF integrated, hands down.

TroyD

When I stopped wearing pants.

BDT

organ

Airplay355 wrote:

My MF integrated, hands down.

I hope to experience the high end of SS soon with my LSi9. How many w/ch is your MF?