I've now heard 'hi-fi'

read-alot · March 2006

audiobliss wrote:

read-alot
I had no idea you were so close. Was Wednesday your frist visit to Custom Home Hi-Fi? What was your general impression of the store? If you remember, who was it who helped you?

I didn't mean to imply the B&W's were the best speaker or that they would trump SDA's or anything like that. I just thought that system sounded much superior than my system. I'm sure the SDA's would have at least as much of the commanding presence and room-energizing capabilities as the B&W's.

audio, That was my first visit to the new store. I thought it was ok but back in the room with the B&Ws it seemed damp and musty like the carpet had been wet. I should have clarified my post to state that I was expecting to leave with my feelings hurt about how that system killed my little rig.
What was the ticket on that setup?

I-SIG · March 2006

shack wrote:

While I often prefer the experience of a live performance, I more often prefer the sound of a good recording.

Sorry this is late joining back in, but I hear. The thing I to keep in mind about recordings, whether they be studio or live, is how they reproduce the actual environment where the musicians are playing the music.

Wes

audiobliss · March 2006

read-alot wrote:

audio, That was my first visit to the new store. I thought it was ok but back in the room with the B&Ws it seemed damp and musty like the carpet had been wet. I should have clarified my post to state that I was expecting to leave with my feelings hurt about how that system killed my little rig.
What was the ticket on that setup?

Wow, I didn't notice any of those things about the back room, lol! I probably just couldn't keep my eyes off that Bryston equipemtn and remote!

What was the ticket on that setup? Probably my background. Coming from improperly setup Klipsch speakers with a myriad of poor to good equipment behind them, the B&W and Bryston combo was amazing! However, if I were accustomed to a sweet SDA setup, I might not have liked it near as much.

I think I've decided to, as cheaply as possible, get as much out of my system as possible before throwing up my hands and admitting I bought the wrong speakers. I should have a CDP on the way soon, and next will be a tube preamp, hopefully a Dodd ELP.

At the moment, I'm inclined to think I won't dabble much with cables and wiring. I just hope I'm able to position these speakers at least more optimally.

read-alot · March 2006

Let me rephrase- How much was that system we listened too?

I know they asked me $750 for the Rotel but I didnt look at what the Brystons
or the B&Ws ticket was.

audiobliss · March 2006

Oh, LOL! I totally misunderstood what you said. The Rotel was $700 or $800. Since he told you $750, I assume he told me $800 (wonder why

). The Bryston BP25 preamp was $2,600, and the amp was $3,300. I'm not sure what the B&W's cost, but I'm sure someone else here can tell us what they cost.

Tuesday I only listened to the 803D, and didn't much pay attention to what else they had. Do you remember what the other B&W's were? I'm planning on going back tomorrow afternoon.

BOWLMAN · March 2006

audiobliss, Glad to hear you listened to the B&W 803D speakers.The 803S costs about $5,000 the 803D is an upgrade it costs between $6,000-$8,000 depending on the dealer. I own a pair of 703s cost $3,000 , but you get full price when you upgrade to a higher level.Check out the 800D...

audiobliss · March 2006

I've been trying to think of albums and particular songs that I want to listen to through this B&W rig (and any other rigs I end up 'auditioning'). My list is based more on what I know and love, than what is well recorded, since so far, I don't know what is well recorded. So far, here's the list:

Alabama:
Born Country

Allison Krauss:
When You Say Nothing At All

Big Mon:
Darlin' Corey

Billy Joel:
And So It Goes
The Night is Still Young
The Stranger

Brad Paisley
Whiskey Lullaby (duet with Allison Krauss)

Chris Isaak:
King of the Road
Wrong to Love You

Delbert McClinton:
Have a Little Faith In Me
Miss You Fever

The Eagles:
Hotel California

Elvis Presley:
I Really Don't Want to Know
Make the World Go Away
Suspicious Minds
Always On My Mind
Guitar Man

Eric Clapton:
White Room
Crossroads

Floyd Cramer:
Last Date

Frankie Valli:
Silence Is Golden
December, 1963

Garth Brooks:
Mr. Midnight
The Storm

James Taylor:
Carolina
Fire & Rain

I'm sure that list isn't really comprehensive, but that's what I've come up with so far. Now, my question is this: How should I take those songs to the store(s) to listen to them? Should I just slowly bring in a few CD's at a time and listen to them? Or should I make a CD with those songs on it? I was planning on ripping all the songs to my hard drive via EAC in .wav format and then making a CD, but then I got to wondering if that'd be kinda shooting myself in the foot. Do you think It'd make a big difference to my ears (ha, like anyone can answer that one) to use a copy instead of the original?

Thanks!

Joey_V · March 2006

ABliss...

I heard the BW 802D and 803D powered by the Rotel RB1090 (which in side by side comparison, beat out the Krell 400xi and Rotel RB1091 monos) today. I must say, those BW are superb. They were very resolute and I'm liking the new BW Diamond tweeters more and more each time I hear them. The older aluminum tweeters still found on the 804S is no match - overly sibilant and difficult to appreciate.

The new Diamonds are truly a marvel - better than JM Lab's beryllium I think. Cohesive, resolute, yet in complete control. I like it a LOT.

Now... did the 802D (properly driven) at $12K make me think twice about my $11K Martin Logan Summits? I wont lie.. sure, but still no cigar... though if there were no Summits, I wouldnt mind dumping that cash in the 802D.

Oh.. but I have to hear the Wilson Sophias ($12K) first...

.

Enjoy my friend... that BW system you are digging (provided it's the Diamond series) is truly a shoulder above the previous BW generation... truly a phenom of a speaker.

I am generally apathetic towards BW speakers (especially those without the FST driver) due to price, but I believe that the 803D, 802D are truly superb. Are they worth the cash? Depends if you have it. If you dont, you probably wont.

Joey_V · March 2006

BOWLMAN wrote:

audiobliss, Glad to hear you listened to the B&W 803D speakers.The 803S costs about $5,000 the 803D is an upgrade it costs between $6,000-$8,000 depending on the dealer. I own a pair of 703s cost $3,000 , but you get full price when you upgrade to a higher level.Check out the 800D...

The 803D cost $8K at my dealer - and I'm sure this is at all dealers since 3 dealers quoted me the exact same price... prior to any haggling.

A truly superb speaker I must say. Listening to the D's again with proper amplification has changed my overall opinion of the BW brand.

audiobliss · April 2006

So, what's the consensus about using burned CD's as demo discs?

danger boy · April 2006

audiobliss wrote:

So, what's the consensus about using burned CD's as demo discs?

personally i wouldn't do it.. and i don't want to start any kind of argument. but the original is going to sound better IMHO. a copy or burned CD is just that a copy.. although a exact digital copy.. it may still lose some audio quailty or be subjected to compression.

danger boy · April 2006

audiobliss wrote:

So, what's the consensus about using burned CD's as demo discs?

personally i wouldn't do it.. and i don't want to start any kind of argument. but the original is going to sound better IMHO. a copy or burned CD is just that a copy.. although a exact digital copy.. it may still lose some audio quailty or be subjected to compression.

shack · April 2006

audiobliss wrote:

So, what's the consensus about using burned CD's as demo discs?

It's all I use as a demo. I have two burned discs with about 15 songs each that I take whenever I demo gear. It is a true audio copy with no compression so SQ is every bit as good as the original tracks. I get comments all the time from the sales people about the quality and selection of the music I use. It is well recorded, demanding, revealing music that I like and it lets me get a really good demo of the gear.

audiobliss · April 2006

Ok, it's settled; I'm making a demo disc. As soon as I figure out how to use EAC, that is.

unc2701 · April 2006

danger boy wrote:

personally i wouldn't do it.. and i don't want to start any kind of argument. but the original is going to sound better IMHO. a copy or burned CD is just that a copy.. although a exact digital copy.. it may still lose some audio quailty or be subjected to compression.

1)Unless you add compression, it's not going to be on there. If it's an exact digital copy, you will not lose audio quality in the copying stage (see below)

2)I've done bit comparisons on subsequent rips using EAC and I've done comparisons with the ripped vs original. In both cases they were identical. In case you're wondering, I was REALLY bored at work (and I managed to do the comparisons using SAS, if any of you know what that is. Yep, bored).

Now the CD-R media might be more likely to induce jitter in a particular system, but as far as getting the music over to the disc, you'll be fine.

heiney9 · April 2006

danger boy wrote:

personally i wouldn't do it.. and i don't want to start any kind of argument. but the original is going to sound better IMHO. a copy or burned CD is just that a copy.. although a exact digital copy.. it may still lose some audio quailty or be subjected to compression.

No arguing here, but with a program like EAC it will be an exact bit for bit copy. That's what it was specifically designed for. I can't say for other ripping programs, but EAC is the real deal and it works...quite well.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

H9

audiobliss · April 2006

After ripping with EAC, how would you recommend burning to a CD?

crazy · April 2006

I thought of adding to this thread - I spend the better part of yesterday listening to 802D running on McIntosh gear. I couldn't believe how good it sounded. The rocks songs was alright - I mean they were a little better than say the 803 or even the 804, little crisper and better sound stage. But when I put on a classic Dave Brubeck Quartet piece - Take 5 - the thing just transformed the room into a club with a live band playing. It was unreal and at the end of the performance, I almost wanted to get up and clap - it was that real. After the audition, the same song on the 804s and the 703 sounded like crap!

Joey_V · April 2006

crazy wrote:

I thought of adding to this thread - I spend the better part of yesterday listening to 802D running on McIntosh gear. I couldn't believe how good it sounded. The rocks songs was alright - I mean they were a little better than say the 803 or even the 804, little crisper and better sound stage. But when I put on a classic Dave Brubeck Quartet piece - Take 5 - the thing just transformed the room into a club with a live band playing. It was unreal and at the end of the performance, I almost wanted to get up and clap - it was that real. After the audition, the same song on the 804s and the 703 sounded like crap!

This is why you dont listen to super speakers before you can afford them... or are willing to afford them.

crazy · April 2006

Joey_V wrote:

This is why you dont listen to super speakers before you can afford them... or are willing to afford them.

I agree - however, I treated this as having just gone to an amazing concert.

read-alot · April 2006

read-alot wrote:

I probably should mentioned that my system is now.

SDA 2 (RDO silk domes)
Phase Linear 400 (modded)
Dodd ELP (separate power supply) (E188cc SQ tubes)
Outlaw ICs
MIT Shotgun 2 speaker cables
Panny rp82 that the 1072 will replace for audio (Im keeping it for video)
HSU STF 2

Just scored a set of original SRS and called Helen today for the silks so the big boys will replace the 2s.

danger boy · April 2006

read-alot wrote:

Just scored a set of original SRS and called Helen today for the silks so the big boys will replace the 2s.

Nice.... good going.

read-alot · April 2006

Thanks, I am very happy. I listened to a pair of these back when I bought the 2s but couldn't afford the 3 grand at the time as my family was very young. My CRS set just lost their RDO upgrade for the time being, I have the right side silked until the next load gets here.

audiobliss, sorry to highjack your thread man. I just use the burner that came with my notebook. My wife uses an external Memorex that does DVD and CDs.

audiobliss · April 2006

No problem, read-alot. This thread was pretty much dead with regards to its original subject anyways, so it's no big deal. Congrats on the speakers!

audiobliss · May 2006

Well, today I did some more auditioning. I brought along my Ted Nugent, Big Mon, and Frankie Valli CDs. Instead of the 803D's, they had the 802D's hooked up to the Rotel RCD-1072 and Bryston gear.

I popped Ted Nugent in frist. I was really surprised. Not in a good way, however. The music was just as how I've heard Sid refer to B&W - dry and lifeless. I just couldn't get into the music at all. It totally lacked any element of emotion. All the drums and guitar sequences I love so much were there, in spades, being produced very powerfully, but it just wasn't captivating in the least. I began to suspect I liked the 803D's better, but then I remembered I hadn't played this material on them before. So, I put in my Big Mon CD, which I have played through the 803D's before.

It was back. It was amazing. The music was, somehow, emotional and involving again. Just how I had remembered it on the 803D's. I guess the B&W's aren't really suited to reproducing such music as Ted Nugent. But I still think I preferred the 803D's over the 802D's, though I'd have to listen to them both again to be sure.

I also managed to swing by Elite AudioVideo. Bart was just as nice and cordial as ever, and was more than happy to get things going in the main speaker room for me. I told him I had been listening to some B&W's earlier, so he hooked up a pair of Monitor Audio Gold Reference 20 speakers. (Note: Those are from the previous line, not the new Gold Signature line.) This system was fed by a NAD C521 CDP and a B&K pre and amp, though it also went through one of those little switching boxes.

I started off with Ted Nugent again. At first I was a little disappointed again, because though the music came through great, his voice was very recessed sounding, as if he were far removed from the scene. But I quickly got used to that and just decided that's the way it was recorded, and soon came to be seriously impressed with these little speakers. They're very noticeably smaller than my Klipsch, but boy are they every bit as commanding! It really was astonishing to see such small floorstanders to fill up the room with such confidence and authority. The more I listened, the more I was amazed by them. They produced every little detail down to the tee, and the bass was nothing short of spectacular.

Next I put in the Big Mon CD, and it was every bit as phenomenal as it was on the 802D and 803D. Finally I put in my Frankie Valli CD, and it sounded great, too.

This particular pair was in a beautiful gloss black finish, and were on sale for $2,000 for the pair, down from the $3,500 regular price. They seriously have me thinking, though I most definitely don't have the money for them.

Lemme close by saying that, after having listened to the 803D and 802D for hours before, I would not in the least bit be disappointed to end up with those MA GR20 speakers instead, though I'm sure I would want to hear the B&W's a few times just to assure myself.

I'm still in shock of what such a small little speaker can do!!

Joey_V · May 2006

Sometimes I feel that emotionality is very dynamic and can change easily given different moods and preconceptions of a product. I dont really like to base my thoughts of a speaker's capability based on emotionality too much, atleast I try not to.

That said, glad you found a solid speaker for less.

However, I am surprised that you said you had to adjust to the sound and you claim it to be the way it was recorded.... how are you able to come to that conclusion? It seems to me that if you convince yourself that's how a song is recorded, that idea in your head TOTALLY biases you towards that speaker - and changes your affinity towards emotionality for the better.

My .02.

min888 · May 2006

This happens to me before too, I went into a high end stereo store and the guy put on the 800D with some seriously expensive McIntosh amps and it sounded wonderful, so wonderful that I went home and decided to sell all of my stuff because mine was sounding like crap. I had the B&K Ref50 surround pre-amp driving a pair of Denon POA-1500 bi-amping the SDA-SRS (original version). Sold the piece of crap B&K. I somehow found this forum and began to tinker with the placement of the SRS and getting new electronic gears, now I think my system sounds much better, maybe close to the B&W now, it maybe worse than the B&W but it's not 30K worse than that B&W setup. I think I'm going back there to see how much worse my rig is compare to the B&W.

audiobliss · May 2006

Why did I finally 'accept' that that's the way the CD is recorded? Because that's the way it has sounded on three different systems so far...and that's every system I've played it on. Excpet for my car system, which doesn't count since I still have the factory speakers.

Since I waited to admit that until I was listening to the Monitor Audio speakers, I also admit that the 802D's deserve a second chance. However, I was so blown away by the Monitor's power, presence, and detail, that I'm not sure a second chance will help much. Especially considering the drastic price difference.

organ · May 2006

Bliss,
Now you should track down the exotic electrostats, ribbons, planars, etc and see what they have to offer.

SRS_fan · May 2006

ok, i have the SRS and love them so i had to hear these $8k B&W series speakers.... FOR ME... no way--technically superior but without the ability to change a mind set. In my opinion,,,, the sound should make you feel not analyze. I do not listen for things but let the rush' decide. Its easier for me to tell what I like in this manner. Of course it could be the wire, preamp, amp, ozone layer etc. but in the end {the 'hi-end' store was doing their best to make a match - B&W has a sales rep to guide them in a optimum set up?

That being said.... I drove quite a distance to audition the 10k Summits and .... bought them! {did my best to take the floor models} -

7 more days and they should be here. {If you have a chance... the summits need to be on your list to visit}

Joey's system is posted over on the Logan site and Sweeeet! A pleasant suprise to see a crossover to the Polk sight.

* Music is my drug of choice *

I've now heard 'hi-fi'

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