MSD Ignitions

Red230SX

A torque converter (non lockup) is comprised of a front shell, rear shell and
a stator. The insides of the front and rear shell look like a "Nautilus" and have
fins. The stator rides on a one way bearing in the center of the shell halves
which are welded together.

The front of the converter bolts to the engine's fly wheel and the back side of
the converter has "ears" which enguage the fluid pump inside the automatic
transmission.

As the fluid flows through the converter pressure and flow rises untill the
stator reaches a point where it directs the fluid in a way that there is a
viscous copupling acheived. The unit then acts as one piece via a fluid
coupling.

Below that point of "stall" the stator will spin freely and will not allow the
torque converter to acheive a viscous coupling state.

When someone says they put a "High Stall" converter in thier car it means
that the stator will not stall untill a high RPM range. Your average street
car's auto tranny stalls at idle RPM or slightly above idle RPM. On a race car
that is not practical because the engine's powerband is signifigantly higher
than that of the stock conveter and thus time and engergy is wasted.

If you have an engine which begins to make high horsepower and torque
figures at, say, 4000 RPM then you would want a converter that will stall
to 3500 or even 4500 RPM to allow the engine to lay down nearly all of it's
horsepower and torque right at the moment the conveter reaches it's fluid
coupling state.

Or you can go the way of the Powerglide. Add two fluid pumps, remove the
Torque Converter completely and install a "Trans Brake" which is a custom
designed valve circuit that will hold the gear sets "between" reverse and
forward untill a selonoid is tripped at which time it "drops" the tranny into
gear (while you are holding the throttle at redline) of course you need to
have a fully worked full race tranny to do this, and it also helps to have 18"
wide full slicks

neomagus00

ahh, i see how it all comes together now... thanks!

PoweredByDodge

ding ding ding - we have a weiner - er i mean winner.

Mac, you're pretty much right, but Red did a great job of explaining it in detail...

its not a 'stall converter' as much as its a "torque converter with a higher stall rating". just an adjective.

Red230SX

"High Stall Converter"

audiobliss

Oh, I'm not listening to that red230sx. He said automatics run on pixy dust...he can't know what he's talking about...

PoweredByDodge

automatics do run on pixie dust... didn't you get the memo?

Red230SX

Bliss,

Yeah but it's derived from the same stuff IBM uses, you know? The IBM Server
Self Healing Pixie Dust (the pink stuff) good stuff!

disneyjoe7

Red230SX wrote:

Torque Converter completely and install a "Trans Brake" which is a custom
designed valve circuit that will hold the gear sets "between" reverse and
forward until a solenoid is tripped at which time it "drops" the tranny into
gear (while you are holding the throttle at redline) of course you need to
have a fully worked full race tranny to do this

OMG that must be a killer on an "Auto Trans" holding it self between gears.

BTW very nice post, I myself know something about stall converters but your post would have made mine like a 3rd grader vs College Grad.

HiPerf360

PoweredByDodge wrote:

Capacitive discharge ignitions are **** in my opinion.

The MSD-6AL (which is capacitive discharge) isn't any better than the rest. Mallory makes a virtually identical unit for half the price.

You want a good ignition? stick with stock.

The two best "old" ignitions you're ever going to run across (ones that work off a distributor) are the GM-HEI unit and the Chrysler 4 and 5 pin ECU units. Nothing beats them for durability and sureness of spark.

If you want to upgrade a modern stock ignition, then there are 2 good choices.

A) if you have a single coil with spark plug wires... get a 40 to 60,000 volt coil to replace the stock 20,000 volt one. Make sure you're using quality plugs and quality wires (8 to 10mm spark plug wires).

if you have "coil in plug" technology... go out and snag some double voltage coils... it'll cost you a fortune, but it's your $$ not mine.


aftermarket ignition isn't going to make a damn bit of difference... it's only good if your stock stuff is busted and you don't know how to fix it properly.

Where the **** do you get your information?????

HEI and Mopar performance ignitions pail in comparison to MSD.

Mallory- was good about 15 years ago

Accel- was good about 25 years ago

MSD is on the cutting edge of quality and design for ignitions.

HiPerf360

CrBoy wrote:

I wonder why all the reviews about MSD are so good, I have look quite a few sites and all of them say good thing about this ignitions.... DAMN!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

Because they are...

Go to a race track and look at the different ignition systems....

over 90% will be MSD

5% will be a MoTec or Bosch derivitve...

The othe 5% will be all the rest.

HiPerf360

PoweredByDodge wrote:

i'm fouling plugs like a **** in the 88, but i've only got a 20kv coil... going to swap out to a 40 or 60 (have accel yellow 8mm wires already). i may go to the mopar orange box... not sure yet.

If you are fouling plugs the tune up is incorect or your plugs are to cold.

HiPerf360

Red-

Got your e-mail-

Will respond later today.

See ya

Red230SX

HiPerf360 wrote:

If you are fouling plugs the tune up is incorect or your plugs are to cold.

The tune was fine... The problem was that I had 76 degrees of valve overlap
plus a fairly broad LSA on the cam. It made for a miserable idle, in fact it
would not idle below 1200 RPM and the amount of vacuum through the intake
tract caused the boosters to surge even at "idle" speed. Of course the ignition
could not keep up with that much fuel at idle.

I ultimately solved the problem by going with an MSD 6-AL with an Accel
Supercoil and eliminated the junk mopar ECU box and upgraded to a Holley
1050CFM 3 Barrel (Factory carb from a Baldwin Motion Phase III Camaro)
which had annular discharge boosters, 50cc accelerator pumps, four corner
idle circuits etc.. It was basically a streetable dominator (but did not use the
dominator body it was the 750 DP Body with massive work in the venturii).

After that was done it never fouled another plug and I am sure I also made
more horsepower in the process. The car was a monster

98thumpin

to much unburnt fuel =fouled plug

HiPerf360

Red-

I was not referring to the motor in your Dart?? but PBD'd 88 truck. I don’t think the cam is that large in his truck?

Mopar engine and cylinder head configurations really like the 4500 series carbs over the 4150 as the main body is taller and it sends a better signal to the boosters. With extremely low vacuumed at idle I usually jus block the front and rear power valves and raise the main jets to compensate it. But then you have to change or drill the intermediate passages in the metering block or the drivability will be shot.

With the cost of all the jets, air bleeds and metering block changes plus the initial cost of a good carb EFI looks that much better of an option for my 67 sb barracuda. And now that I am proficient with the mapping software I can make fine adjustments very quickly without spilling fuel everywhere.

neomagus00

98thumpin wrote:

to much unburnt fuel =fouled plug

was this a question or a statement?

Red230SX

Jon,

Demon but I will let it slide this time

Yep the 4500 would have solved the problem but the 4150 I was using
was a fully worked over carb right out of the box and it did work perfect.

When I was trying to make a brand new 3310 work, pfft that just didn't
happen at all, I had the boosters surging so bad it was laughable they
just dumped...

I was going to actually do the eliminated Power Valves and swap Jets around
but that's when I came across that 1050 and it saved me the hassle.

EFI is the way to go..... With something along the lines of Accel DFI it's
easy to tune in the car, at the track, on the dyno etc...

HiPerf360 wrote:

Red-

I was not referring to the motor in your Dart?? but PBD'd 88 truck. I don’t think the cam is that large in his truck?

Mopar engine and cylinder head configurations really like the 4500 series carbs over the 4150 as the main body is taller and it sends a better signal to the boosters. With extremely low vacuumed at idle I usually jus block the front and rear power valves and raise the main jets to compensate it. But then you have to change or drill the intermediate passages in the metering block or the drivability will be shot.

With the cost of all the jets, air bleeds and metering block changes plus the initial cost of a good carb EFI looks that much better of an option for my 67 sb barracuda. And now that I am proficient with the mapping software I can make fine adjustments very quickly without spilling fuel everywhere.

HiPerf360

Thats right...

I always liked the Demons... Killer emblem!

Actually I think I will go with a Mo-Tec system, a little overkill for a drag car but I am used to the tuning of them and already have a computer set up for it.

Red230SX

Yeah Motec is a bit overkill but if you have the diagnostic equipment that's
half the investment

98thumpin

neomagus00 wrote:

was this a question or a statement?

it was a statement

Red230SX

98thumpin wrote:

it was a statement

2 + 3 = Chair!

HiPerf360

Red230SX wrote:

Yeah Motec is a bit overkill but if you have the diagnostic equipment that's
half the investment

Compliments of the GM Performance Division

deepinya

Red230SX wrote:

2 + 3 = Chair!

oh crap I shot pepsi out of my nose when I read this.

it burns = you DIE!!!

audiobliss

this thread=getting stupid

neomagus00

yeah, but you = postwhore, so it's all good

audiobliss

a;sdlkfjei=iejfklds;a of course assuming the multiplicative commutative property.

And yeah, I just posted that to gain a +1. I think it worked.

MacLeod

Ill let you slide and wont break out the filter on ya because this post was pretty funny:

audiobliss wrote:

this thread=getting stupid