MSD Ignitions

CrBoy
CrBoy Posts: 580
edited March 2006 in Car Audio & Electronics
What do you guys think about MSD Ignitions? are they good? bad? not worth it?

I would like to get one for my Jetta 2.0 (8v) like the 6AL but I'm not sure... a turbo will be installed in about 3 months or so...

Please chime in Polkies ;)
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited March 2006
    I bought one of those for my Camaro but never installed it. When you decide you want one let me know and I'll give you a good price on my NIB one. I have the rev limiter, the timing control and a shift light too. I thought all that stuff would be cool but never found the time to install any of it. Now I'm not even interested in it anymore. So it goes... :)
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • CrBoy
    CrBoy Posts: 580
    edited March 2006
    pm sent
    <|>
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  • audiobliss
    audiobliss Posts: 12,518
    edited March 2006
    I would say, yeah, it's good. However, the stock ignition system on most cars is more than capable of keeping up with the vast majority of the mods the average Joe is going to do their cars.

    However, if you can get a deal on a 'used' one (hint, hint), I'd go for it. There's certainly a cool factor involved.
    George Grand wrote: »
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  • CrBoy
    CrBoy Posts: 580
    edited March 2006
    the sequencial spark is supposed to improve fuel economy and other things... dunno
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited March 2006
    Theyre good if youre building a racing engine and want every last bit of horsepower you can get. If its a stock daily driver they aint worth it in my experience.

    Ive tried all those gadgets from the Split Fire plugs, Tornado Air Management, cold air induction you name it, and Ive noticed no difference. So now I stick to plain old Purolator air filters and entry level Champion spark plugs.
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
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    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited March 2006
    slightly off-topic, but i noticed a major difference (in numbers, not just in subjective feel) when i installed an open-air intake this week... perhaps it's as much about the car as the mod...
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • PoweredByDodge
    PoweredByDodge Posts: 4,185
    edited March 2006
    Capacitive discharge ignitions are **** in my opinion.

    The MSD-6AL (which is capacitive discharge) isn't any better than the rest. Mallory makes a virtually identical unit for half the price.

    You want a good ignition? stick with stock.

    The two best "old" ignitions you're ever going to run across (ones that work off a distributor) are the GM-HEI unit and the Chrysler 4 and 5 pin ECU units. Nothing beats them for durability and sureness of spark.

    If you want to upgrade a modern stock ignition, then there are 2 good choices.

    A) if you have a single coil with spark plug wires... get a 40 to 60,000 volt coil to replace the stock 20,000 volt one. Make sure you're using quality plugs and quality wires (8 to 10mm spark plug wires).

    B) if you have "coil in plug" technology... go out and snag some double voltage coils... it'll cost you a fortune, but it's your $$ not mine.


    aftermarket ignition isn't going to make a damn bit of difference... it's only good if your stock stuff is busted and you don't know how to fix it properly.
    The Artist formerly known as PoweredByDodge
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  • CrBoy
    CrBoy Posts: 580
    edited March 2006
    I wonder why all the reviews about MSD are so good, I have look quite a few sites and all of them say good thing about this ignitions.... DAMN!!!!!!!!!! :mad:
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  • PoweredByDodge
    PoweredByDodge Posts: 4,185
    edited March 2006
    Quite a few sites also say good things about the "Tornado" (that steel piece of junk that you shove in your air intake tube), the "electric supercharger that pushes 0.1 cfm of air!", and various "fuel additives".

    Fact is, capacitive discharge ignitions are so SIMPLE in design and CHEAP to build that any car manufacturer worth their salt would have integrated them into their stock electronics if they were any better.

    The new 5.7 Hemi uses a multi-spark system as factory equipment... it's not capacitive discharge though... but it is multispark.



    MSD jobbers are "good" when you're **** outa luck for an ignition for a hot rod of a restoration -- or when your daily driver breaks down and you plum don't know hwo to fix it -- its infinitely cheaper and easier to buy a 150 dollar MSD unit and slap it in than it is to diagnose and fix the OEM equipment... however, if the OEM stuff is working properly and tuned properly, then there is no reason to change.
    The Artist formerly known as PoweredByDodge
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited March 2006
    The Tornado is a flat out rip off. I used to have a Suzuki Samurai with 66 horsepower. Sine it was so underpowered and always running at 100% I noticed even the smallest increase in horsepower, fuel mileage and engine temp. Synthetic oil made a big difference in engine temp. A Dynomax cat back exhaust kit made a noticeable seat of the pants difference in horsepower, a K&N filter did nothing, neither did a cold air induction kit. The Tornado did nothing at all neither did Splitfire plugs. A Random Technology hi flow catalytic converter made the biggest difference.

    And like I said, if youre building a super high horse power engine or racing engine than a MSD ignition is a good match but for an every day OEM vehicle its not going to matter.
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
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    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • Red230SX
    Red230SX Posts: 211
    edited March 2006
    Actually the Hemi no longer has the waste-spark setup like my 04 Hemi Ram
    has. It wasn't cost effective for Chrysler to redesign the ignition at the last
    minute before the Hemi was released but they figured out there was no gain
    to the waste spark setup and went with standard coils on the 06+ Hemi's.


    My Hemi has dual coils at each plug and when #1 fires on intake it's firing
    #6 on exhaust. It doesn't do a damn thing other than add more complexity
    of wiring. The 06+ Hemi's and the 05+ SRT's are all one coil for one plug with
    no waste spark.
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  • Red230SX
    Red230SX Posts: 211
    edited March 2006
    Cold air inductions rarely work the way they claim but there are a few exceptions
    to that..

    The Ram Air (bottom breathing) setup I ran on my C5 Corvette was good for
    an HONEST 15 rear wheel horsepower, yes that's hard to fathom but on the
    Corvette the aerodynamics coupled with the tunneled radiatior shroud system
    which is where the bottom breathers tie into, really do work.
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  • Red230SX
    Red230SX Posts: 211
    edited March 2006
    Oh and FWIW the MSD 6-AL was the only thing that would burn all the fuel
    I ran through my 452 CID Big Block Mopar in my Demon.

    I ran an MSD 6-AL with a 7K Pill (Studder Box) with an Accel Supercoil (60Kv)
    and Accel 300+ Race wires (8.8mm)

    I tried every single Mopar "Hot rod" ECU box they made for my ignition and
    nothing would keep the Demon from fouling out plugs. As soon as I yanked
    out the ECU and went with an MSD my problems were solved, plus I gained
    the rev limiter which I also needed.

    But mind you that was on an OLD car with a hellatiously worked over big block.
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  • PoweredByDodge
    PoweredByDodge Posts: 4,185
    edited March 2006
    i'm fouling plugs like a **** in the 88, but i've only got a 20kv coil... going to swap out to a 40 or 60 (have accel yellow 8mm wires already). i may go to the mopar orange box... not sure yet.
    The Artist formerly known as PoweredByDodge
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  • Red230SX
    Red230SX Posts: 211
    edited March 2006
    I tried the Orange, Chrome, Black spent way too much money and none of
    them worked for me.. But I was running a fairly radical cam with tons of
    overlap and that was the problem at idle speed (heh.. WHAT IDLE?) it would
    load up.
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  • CrBoy
    CrBoy Posts: 580
    edited March 2006
    This thread proves that I don't know **** about engines... LOL :p
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited March 2006
    ask! learn! it makes engine geeks like them annoyed, but they're usually cool enough to answer your questions...

    except pbd, he won't... :D
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • CrBoy
    CrBoy Posts: 580
    edited March 2006
    ^I know that's the only way...
    soooooooooooo..... based on everybody's opinion the MSD will be useless in my case.... breaks system upgrade here I come!!!! :D
    <|>
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  • Red230SX
    Red230SX Posts: 211
    edited March 2006
    How can you upgrade a "Break" ? Break it worse? :)

    Just razzin ya...

    Ok trivia time.. How many degrees of Crankshaft Rotation are there in one full
    four stroke engine cycle?
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  • CrBoy
    CrBoy Posts: 580
    edited March 2006
    360... 720 degrees? where are the smart guys when you need'em... :D
    <|>
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  • Red230SX
    Red230SX Posts: 211
    edited March 2006
    720 is correct :)
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  • CrBoy
    CrBoy Posts: 580
    edited March 2006
    Yuju... I'm just half stupid! ;)
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited March 2006
    ooh! i actually knew that! yay me :p

    give us another...
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • PoweredByDodge
    PoweredByDodge Posts: 4,185
    edited March 2006
    its oddly worded....

    but yes, a normal 4 stroke car motor, it's half of one crankshaft rotation for each stroke ... intake, ignition/combustion, power, and exhaust... 4 * 0.5 = 2 rotations for a full "cycle" of a SINGLE cylinder.

    every cylinder is out of sync with the others, so, good look figuring out how many it is from when cylinder 1 starts until cylinder 8 finishes... probably 2.1 or 2.2 or who the hell knows.

    ... far as my problem motor.... its a stock roller cam... higher compression heads, but basically a stock motor --- i idle at 800 by choice (supposed to be 700-ish) but i've got a slightly higher stall converter to compensate. it could be just break in taht's causing te fouling.... i haven't even driven the damn thing yet.
    The Artist formerly known as PoweredByDodge
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited March 2006
    what means 'stall converter'?
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited March 2006
    Correct me if Im wrong Vinny but its the point where the engine RPM's need to be for the automatic transmission to move the vehicle. Say your stall is at 1000 RPM's, youll need to get the engine up to at least 1000 RPM's for the transmission to move the vehicle.

    A torque converter has basically 2 propellors inside. One is attatched to the engine and the other to the tranny. When the engine spins its propellor fast enough, it stirs up the tranny fluid enough to spin the tranny's propellor which in turn spins the driveshaft. Now thats an extremely elementary explanation of how it works but thats because I have a very elementary understanding of auto trannys.
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • neomagus00
    neomagus00 Posts: 3,899
    edited March 2006
    this howstuffworks article helped me understand what you're talking about... the term 'stall converter' seems like it's a part, though i do see what you're saying
    It's not good, very fundamentally simply not good. - geolemon

    "Its not good enough until we have real-time fearmongering. I want my fear mongered as it happens." - Shizelbs
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  • MacLeod
    MacLeod Posts: 14,358
    edited March 2006
    Wait til Vinny chimes in. I could be way off but that is the way Ive understood it for a while now.
    polkaudio sound quality competitor since 2005
    MECA SQ Rookie of the Year 06 ~ MECA State Champ 06,07,08,11 ~ MECA World Finals 2nd place 06,07,08,09
    08 Car Audio Nationals 1st ~ 07 N Georgia Nationals 1st ~ 06 Carl Casper Nationals 1st ~ USACi 05 Southeast AutumnFest 1st

    polkaudio SR6500 --- polkaudio MM1040 x2 -- Pioneer P99 -- Rockford Fosgate P1000X5D
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  • audiobliss
    audiobliss Posts: 12,518
    edited March 2006
    Yeah, that's a good elementary explanation. I would elaborate on it, but I can't! :p
    George Grand wrote: »
    Jstas wrote: »
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    In Use
    PS3, Yamaha CDR-HD1300, Plex, Amazon Fire TV Gen 2
    Pioneer Elite VSX-52, Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-82ii, RC-62ii, RS-42ii, RW-10d
    Epson 8700UB
    In Storage
    [Home Audio]
    Rotel RCD-02, Yamaha KX-W900U, Sony ST-S500ES, Denon DP-7F
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII, Parasound P/HP-850, ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Klipsch RF-35, RB-51ii
    [Car Audio]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP, Memphis 16-MCA3004, Boston Acoustic RC520
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  • 98thumpin
    98thumpin Posts: 649
    edited March 2006
    go msd kicks butt
    John Tyler Birch

    home audio system:

    Denon avr-1907
    Sony dvd/cd changer 5 disc
    nakamichi BX-100 tape deck
    2 Polk Audio monitor 70's
    Velodyne DPS-12 subwoofer
    RCA TV
    NAK 600 tape deck
    Monster power line conditioning power center
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