How to hook up LSi25 and PSW505

aat

Hi everyone,

I'm new to Polk Audio community. I would like to know the best way to setup LSi25 and PSW505 to my Denon AVR-4306 receiver. LSi25 has a built in subwoofer and that confused me with the setup.

Thanks in advance,
AAT

PolkThug

Welcome to the forum! I haven't tried to integrate a setup like that, but I'm sure somebody will chime in within the next few hours.

Regards

McLoki

You have two options,

Set the LSi25's to large and the sub to on (with the PSW505) or

Daisy chain a couple Y connectors, set the LSi25's to small and run with 3 subs.

The second option sounds interesting, but it will be very hard to get levels to match correctly with different subs being used.

Based on that, I would set them as large and adjust them so 2 channel sounds correct, then add in the 505 (on the subwoofer output) and adjust so movies sound right.

Michael

mantis

Return the Psw505 as you don't need it in this setup. If you want a 3rd sub you should have picked up the Psw1000. this sub matches better with the Lsi25's.

The avr4306 will give you trouble if you crank it up to reference. It will run out of dynamic headroom. The avr4306 is stable at a 6 ohm load. You can use it as a preamp and get a seperate 5 or 7 channel amp to drive the Lsi's correctly.

For now, wire the Lsi25's in small and Run Lfe to both subs. Make sure use a SPL meter to properly calibrate. This setup will yiled best perfromance for movies.
Running the Lsi25's in large with no sub option will yield best Music performance. You calibrate the subs by ear or using a pressure meter running Test tone to the mains or fronts. You back off the sub volume level until it's not a factor, then rasie back up until you see a Increase in SPL. The setting right before SPL raises is where the sub should be set.

Good luck with your setup. The Lsi's are great speakers

Dan

McLoki

mantis wrote:

Return the Psw505 as you don't need it in this setup. If you want a 3rd sub you should have picked up the Psw1000. this sub matches better with the Lsi25's.

The avr4306 will give you trouble if you crank it up to reference. It will run out of dynamic headroom. The avr4306 is stable at a 6 ohm load. You can use it as a preamp and get a seperate 5 or 7 channel amp to drive the Lsi's correctly.

If returns are an option, I would agree with Dan. Run with the 25's set to large and sub set to off. (This will sound the best for music as Dan said and will also force all LFE effects in movies to go to the front speakers)

Do a search on the forum for running the LSi speakers with recievers. If you have the option of returning your AVR, you may want to do so. You spent a good penny on it to not using the amp section. If you cannot return it, of course make use of it. Just for the money you spent on the AVR with the speakers you are running, I feel you could have done better.

Michael

aat

Thanks for all the tips guys.

Return is not an option. If I set the LSi25 to large and the sub to on (PSW505) per Michael suggested, how would this sound?

I don't have bi-wire cables so I'm wondering should I connect my speaker cables to the top L/R (low frequency) or bottom L/R (high frequency)? Hope I get the low and high frequency order correct.

I also have LSiC, LSiFX (side) and LSi9 (rear)

I'm using them for music, movie and karaoke.

Thanks,
Alvin

aat

I forgot to ask what do you guys reccommend for a 7.1-channel receiver?

I appreciate your help.
AAT

mantis

aat wrote:

I forgot to ask what do you guys reccommend for a 7.1-channel receiver?

I appreciate your help.
AAT

B&K avr507 s2

Dan

McLoki

aat wrote:

Thanks for all the tips guys.

Return is not an option. If I set the LSi25 to large and the sub to on (PSW505) per Michael suggested, how would this sound?

Should sound fine. With the 505 it will not sound as deep as with a better sub, but should sound ok. Music (especially 2 channel) will sound very good.

I don't have bi-wire cables so I'm wondering should I connect my speaker cables to the top L/R (low frequency) or bottom L/R (high frequency)? Hope I get the low and high frequency order correct.

As long as the brass strips are in place, it doesn't really matter where you connect them. As another alternative to biwire (not a true alternative, but better than just the brass plates: replace the brass plates with speaker wire (removing the plates that are there) and see if you hear an improvement. (some do, some dont, but for 4" of speaker wire, the cost is not that high to try it...)

I also have LSiC, LSiFX (side) and LSi9 (rear)

I'm using them for music, movie and karaoke.

Thats alot of low impedance speakers for one AVR. Your next upgrade should be a separate amp. (preferably multi-channel) there are number of good ones to choose from - B&K, Adcom, Rotel, Outlaw, Cinnova, to name a few. Your reciever (and speakers) will thank you for it. I am really kind of surprized that your AVR does not go into protection even at fairly low volumes with that speaker set.

Best of luck to you. (and if you think the LSi's sound good now, wait till you hear them with a decent amp behind them)

Michael

BTW - if I forgot to mention it, welcome to club Polk...

aat

I would love to have a power amp but as you know a power amp is expensive and it's out of my budget. I'm only able to afford a receiver or a amp . Hopefully in the future I can buy a new amp. Would the new amp work well with my existing receiver or I need a pre-amp? How many many channel should I get for the amp?

In the back of the LSi25, there are some setting such as volume, control, and other options that I don't know. What should I set them to?

I appriate all your advised, very helpfull.

Thanks,
AAT

McLoki

From page 7 of your manual (on the denon avr-4306)

Speaker impedance

Speakers with an impedance of from 6 to 16 ohms can be connected for use as front, center, surround and surround back speakers.
Be careful when using two pairs of surround speakers (A+B) at the same time, since use of speakers with an impedance of less than 8 ohms will lead to damage.

Note on speaker impedance.

The protector circuit may be activated if the set is played for long periods of time at high volumes when speakers with an impedance lower than the specified impedance (for example speakers with an impedance of lower than 4 ohms) are connected. If the protector circuit is activated, the speaker output is cut off. Turn off the sets power, wait for the set to cool down, improve the ventilation around the set, then turn the power back on.

Just wanted you to be aware of it. (the LSi's are 4 ohm speakers, but can drop well below that at certain frequencies.)

Amps do cost money, but if you are open to purchasing used, you can get decent amps for not alot of cash. Just keep your eyes out on Audiogon, Videogon, the Polk Flea Market and e-bay. You should be able to amp all your channels for under $1,000 if you take your time, do your research, and don't rush into anything.

I know $1K is alot of money, but your speakers are worth the investment.

Michael

aat

Hi Michael,

Can you please explain to me about ohms? How do I prevent bad thing happens to the LSi's speakers and Denon AVR-4306?

Thanks,
AAT

McLoki

Can you please explain to me about ohms?

This is my attempt at an explanation. Don't run with what I say as gospel as I am not an electritian. This is (in basic terms) how I understand it to work though. I am sure others with more experience will chime in and correct the areas I may not be explaining correctly or fully.

With that being said:

Speakers are rated with a certain ohm rating. (4, 6 or 8 being the most common). This is an average of the resistance that they provide to an amplifier. (it is an average because at every frequency, a speakers resistance changes) The LSi speakers that you have, have a rating of 4 ohms average. Depending on the frequency the actual resistance will be above or below 4 ohms.

How that affects your amplifier is like this..... If you take an extension cord with 2 exposed ends, plug it into the wall and touch the ends together - it creates a short and will (hopefully) blow a fuse, or (hope not) the wire will get really, really hot and start a fire. A short like this will (for this example) be considered 0 ohms. There are very few (none that I can think of) amplifiers that will play with a resistance of 1 ohm. (most of them would be high end car amps or REALLY high end home amps)

Current is what controls your speaker drivers (makes them start and stop), watts is what makes them loud. (not exactly, but for this example, just go with me here) every time the resistance drops in half, (like from 8 ohms to 4 ohms) the amount of current the speaker needs to control the drivers doubles. When you start asking for the amplifier to put out more current than it is capable of bad things will start to happen. (as you approach 0 ohms the current required goes to infinity and that is why the circut blows - it can't supply that much current) In most AVR's power supplies, all channels share the current available. That means for movies when things are happening in all channels at the same time, you start dividing the amount of current available by 7.

All amplifiers have some point where if you lower the resistance to much and put to much power through the wire - too much heat will develop and it will either blow a circut (in the amp) or start a fire like the home example above. Current is the culprit here - not watts. The point that your Denon AVR starts to have difficulty is around 4 ohms based on what the manual says. - basically it can handle 6 ohms at full power. As the resistance drops (remember the 4 ohm rating of your speakers is an average - there are frequencies where they hit 2 ohms) the amount of current that the speaker demands starts going up rapidly and gets closer to the shorted out senerio that we already covered.

Another way to think of current is to think of a water hose filling a bucket. The water is voltage, the pressure of the water coming out of the line is current, and the hose itself is resistance. If you want to fill the bucket in x amount of time - as the hose (resistance) shrinks, the pressure (current) has to increase accordingly. As the hose gets larger (say a 4" pipe compared to a garden hose), the amount of pressure drops dramatically to maintain the rate that the bucket fills up with water as a constant.

How do I prevent bad thing happens to the LSi's speakers and Denon AVR-4306?

Don't listen to multi-channel music or movies at a loud volume. (now there is an aswer that while truthfull, is no help what so ever....) At the first sign of stress, (sound from the speakers is not as clear, the soundstage (how enveloping the sound is) starts to collapse, etc.) turn it down.

You can hurt your speakers by trying to play music or movies at a higher volume than the amp can provide (this kind of damage is from peaks in movies or music - happens fairly rapidly).

Your amp can be hurt by playing at a volume that is to loud for to long. There is a thermal circut in your AVR that will shut down your reciever if it gets to hot. This temp will take a while to develop and will usually happen in the middle of a movie (perhaps during or twords the end of a long action sequence). While long term, I don't think it would be considered good for your amp, I don't know if it will hurt it if it happens once or twice. The way to help prevent it (other than adding an external amp or different speakers) is provide your amp with good ventilation. Don't stick it in a closed cabinet, or if you do get a couple of computer case fans and run them off the trigger output on the back of your avr. (the trigger should be close to the 12 volts the fans need, and just lie them on top of your avr above the heat sinks. - maybe even put one on the back of your cabinet to blow hot air out....)

I am sure others will chime in with different suggestions.

Michael

aat

Michael,

Thanks for explaining, it helps me better understanding. I will save money to buy a amp to drive the LSi25s.

What is consider high volume or the max volume that I should use on the Denon AVR-4306? I believe the DB range is from -79 to 5. I usually have the volume at -10db for movie and Karaoke. Some time my guests just crank the volume up to -5db b/c they think it's not loud enough.

F.Y.I; I'm addicted to this Polk community already .

Thanks,
AAT

aat

Hi experts,

Do you think I'm better of with 5.1-channel or 7.1-channel setup (Denon AVR-4306, LSi25, LSiC, LSiFX, PSW505, LSi9)?

Thanks,
AAT

mldennison

aat,
that is a very nice setup you have there! i would try starting off with 5.1 for now (probably remove the lsi 9's) and see if you have any problems with the receiver. if you are listening a comfortable volumnes and are having protection issues or the sound is not really what you were hoping for, i would then try removing the lsifx's and see if that is any better. as for seperate amplifiers, the nice thing is that you can move in stages. if you have the space on your rack, you can definately go 2 channels at a time and you shold see some big improvement as well as move out of danger fast. once you get your 25's off of the receiver you will reduce your risk considerably i would think.

brendy

Being that you have so many low impedance speakers the best bet is to set all as small.This way the 4306's amp will not have to deal with low bass,which takes the most power.Running the LSi's as small & using the LFE unfiltered input will benefit your amp section of the 4306 and give excellent sound with both music and movies.

McLoki

brendy wrote:

Being that you have so many low impedance speakers the best bet is to set all as small.This way the 4306's amp will not have to deal with low bass,which takes the most power.Running the LSi's as small & using the LFE unfiltered input will benefit your amp section of the 4306 and give excellent sound with both music and movies.

While in general I would agree with you, the LSi 25's have powered subs in them (the 10" woofer has an amp built into the speaker) and he may get better sound by running the subs built into the 25's (with the fronts set to large) and running all other speakers as small. Just a thought - I am sure he will (or should) try it both ways and determine what he likes better.

Michael

aat

All good ideas, I will try them out.

What would be the best way to connect the built in sub from the LSi25s to the receiver?

Do I need to connect my PSW505 sub?

Thanks,
AAT

JohnMade

Sorry to barge in...

AAT, I am thinking about getting LSI25 myself for listening/watching to music/video and karaoke. I am wondering how your LSI25 perform with karaoke. Some of my friends told me that LSI25 is not recommended for karaoke used.

I am a newbie.....