Better polk Subs!!

mantis
mantis Posts: 16,412
As I read some post I get the feeling I'm not alone.Polk needs a new sub.One that can play deep,20hz deep with no drop off.After 19hz drop off would be fine but not before.
The psw1200 was the only sub Polk has made that blew my socks off.It hit low and hard,suprising it was musicial as well,deep, clean,strong.....get the picture guys????
How about a LSI sub????not a black lacquer 650 but a true LSI line sub.well?????
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
Post edited by mantis on

Comments

  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited May 2002
    I agree 100%. While I think Polk subs are musical and tight and pull double duty (music/HT) pretty well, they definitely don't go deep enough.

    I will even go so far as to say a 19 Hz roll-off would not be sufficient for Polk's flagship sub. I would prefer a flat response well into the subsonic range. I've read that the depth charge scene in U-571 has some significant subsonic signal content (as low as 5 Hz). When the bulkhead pulls away from the sub infrastructure, you cannot hear it, but you should be able to feel it in the room - if not, your sub is checking out too early.

    My twin 350's roll off around 32 Hz (in my room) and are something like -15 dB at 20 Hz, with some doubling evident. They move a lot of air above 30Hz, but let's face it, they are not $1,000 subs - ya get whatcha pay for!

    Even the PSW650 can't pull an honest 20Hz out of it's hat, and it cannot do justice to "Jurassic Lunch", from what I've read.

    And the powered half of the RT3000p checks out at 26 Hz too. Although I will admit its twin 300 watt amps and four 8" woofers are impressive, the bottom halves cannot be purchased separately (unless I'm mistaken).

    It's sad the PSW1200 departed after only two years on the scene - I never had a chance to hear one. Does anyone know what REALLY happened to the PSW1200?

    Does anyone think Polk is "settling" for the PSW650 because of price point and buyer demographic considerations?

    Spec



    :confused:
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen ([email protected])
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,988
    edited May 2002
    As far as price point and demographics, I think with the LSi line, Polk could easily put a $1000 sub on the market.

    I wish I had gotten to demo a 1200, with all the hype about it, there is bound to be some truth.

    I agree, that a 'true' subwoofer (if I can use that term, for lack of a better one) should go subsonic at least at -3db down, if not better. I think one rule that is fairly conclusive, is that to do that, its gonna take up some real estate. You gotta have a big freakin box, to get down low low, and at a 'good' spl.....

    Sonotubes are a wave catching on, allowing for 'upward' not 'outward' space considerations, and are becoming fairly popular...

    Now a lot of the subs out there that don't go subsonic are not BAD subs, I'm not knocking any gear here, just want to clarify. The 3 subs I own do just about nothing below 28-32Hz...but are GREAT musically for what they do do. (do do?)

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Just a side note, musicians pipe in...does anyone find it odd that the Bag End goes flat to 8Hz with an 'accordian' type surround, as seen in musical instrument speakers? (and the only sub I have seen to employ this type of driver for home use)


    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • hoosier21
    hoosier21 Posts: 4,404
    edited May 2002
    Does anyone think Polk is "settling" for the PSW650 because of price point and buyer demographic considerations?

    Does anyone know what REALLY happened to the PSW1200?

    Don't know for sure, I am not Polk. But I am willing to bet the PSW1200 was dropped because of lack of sales. Polk is a very high volume company now, and if they were selling 1 PSW1200 to 20-25 PSW650 they had a board meeting, the numbers were not there and it got axed.

    My 2 cents.
    Dodd - Battery Preamp
    Monarchy Audio SE100 Delux - mono power amps
    Sony DVP-NS999ES - SACD player
    ADS 1230 - Polk SDA 2B
    DIY Stereo Subwoofer towers w/(4) 12 drivers each
    Crown K1 - Subwoofer amp
    Outlaw ICBM - crossover
    Beringher BFD - sub eq

    Where is the remote? Where is the $%#$% remote!

    "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us have...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
  • hoosier21
    hoosier21 Posts: 4,404
    edited May 2002
    More thoughts

    Russman, don't forget the Bagend and the Paradigm Servo-15 and the Velo's use some type of feedback control circuitry that enables or at least greatly helps them to reach the depths of subsonic bass. This control of the driver plus the cabinet size Equals mucho bass.

    The Polk PSW1200 has a large box, good power and 2 of Polks best car subwoofer drivers. ( I can't believe I past up a floor modle that was never plugged in for 375.00 at a dealer)

    Polk, (until the recent LSi line) was sold at mass supermarket outlets, the 1200.00 price tag was much more than the "usual" Joe6pack wanted to spend. Most fall backwards when the PSW650 does not include the rest of the speakers "650.00 just for that one speaker?"
    Dodd - Battery Preamp
    Monarchy Audio SE100 Delux - mono power amps
    Sony DVP-NS999ES - SACD player
    ADS 1230 - Polk SDA 2B
    DIY Stereo Subwoofer towers w/(4) 12 drivers each
    Crown K1 - Subwoofer amp
    Outlaw ICBM - crossover
    Beringher BFD - sub eq

    Where is the remote? Where is the $%#$% remote!

    "I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us have...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,014
    edited May 2002
    My personal opinion is that there are some designs for an LSi sub floating around in Polk's HQ somewhere....

    I'd bet anything they are waiting to see how the LSi line sells, who's buying them and for what purposes before they introduce a sub.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,412
    edited May 2002
    I spoke with Polk some time ago about the psw1200 and your right.I didn't sell well,it was to big and heavy.When Polk came out with the psw1200, it was the wrong time(I don't agree )all other companies were making smaller sub as thats what the market demanded.
    The psw1200 is something to be proud of on Polks behalf.It was a monster of a sub.I get to hear it from time to time as my partner still own's it(I can't seem to use the Jedi mind trick on him to let me have it).Its awesome.I makes my psw450 sound like a piece of............fill in the blank.
    The psw650 doesn't compare as I was going to uy one a least 50 times over,i don't think it's much better than the psw450.There to many other subs better out there.
    They really need to make a flagship sub.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • BBUBBA
    BBUBBA Posts: 66
    edited May 2002
    POLK make the PSW1200 again!!!
  • rskarvan
    rskarvan Banned Posts: 2,374
    edited May 2002
    Polk... if you won't mass distribute the PSW1200 thru circuit city & stuff... .how 'bout making it available direct ship from Polk via Club Polk's... "Club Shopping".

    This way, those that really want it can get it !

    Or, are you going to make US look at non-polk companies to get a sub that hits hard and deep. Polk needs to listen to their enthusiasts more. You took the SDA series away from us. You took the PSW1200 away from us. It just ain't right.
  • scottvamp
    scottvamp Posts: 3,277
    edited May 2002
    Love my PSW1200. Big and heavy--- that is what I like about it. One look at it and you know that this sub means business. The price-- ya that is how important a good subwoofer was to me. I think the Polksters who were serious about bass picked it up. I think the price was a bit much for the average Polkie. Let's face it if people were running multi thousand $ speakers they were not looking at Polks line at that time. Anyway this sub kicks a$$. It was the right chose for me. It hits very hard and low. :eek:
  • har_navalta
    har_navalta Posts: 957
    edited May 2002
    Quote:
    __________________________________________________
    Polk... if you won't mass distribute the PSW1200 thru circuit city & stuff... .how 'bout making it available direct ship from Polk via Club Polk's... "Club Shopping".

    This way, those that really want it can get it !

    __________________________________________________



    rskarvan... I like your idea, Yes Polk management making it available directly to all members of the club...Club Shopping.
    If you want Polk Flagship items, JOIN THE CLUB!


    Brilliant idea... Cheers!



    :lol:,
    Har
  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,014
    edited May 2002
    I wouldn't hold my breath.


    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • MxStYlEpOlKmAn
    MxStYlEpOlKmAn Posts: 2,116
    edited May 2002
    YOu can get a awesome M & K sub for 1400$, push pull dual 12 inch drivers...its AWESOME!
    Damn you all, damn you all to hell.......
    I promised myself
    No more speakers. None. Nada. And then you posted this!!!!
    Damn you all! - ATC
  • Ron-P
    Ron-P Spaceman Spiff Posts: 8,504
    edited May 2002
    My single 15" Tempest Sonosub begins to roll off at 22Hz, not before. Looks to be damn close to the PSW1200.

    I was hoping to get below 20Hz, but I'd need to port the sub to get any lower. After spending $350 on building it and achieving the results I did, I couldn't be happier.

    In my eyes, subwoofers are way over-priced. How much was Polk asking for the PSW1200?


    Peace Out~:D
    If...
    Ron dislikes a film = go out and buy it.
    Ron loves a film = don't even rent.
  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,988
    edited May 2002
    Sealed sub @ 22Hz, don't see that very often......

    Impressive Ron, very impressive.

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • Ron-P
    Ron-P Spaceman Spiff Posts: 8,504
    edited May 2002
    I am amazed myself. But the SPL meter does not lie. I was told, depending on the tube size I could reach 18Hz with a sealed enclosure. But, size was a constraint for me.

    Feeling the bass is awesome. You cannot hear a thing, yet your pants, shirt and chest just vibrate. I had one guy last week, stand up and shack it off, the vibrations were so strong.

    You know that sound your voice makes when you talk into a fan. When I run the AVIA LFE sweep, my voice does the same thing.

    Utterly F'ing amazing.


    Peace Out~:D
    If...
    Ron dislikes a film = go out and buy it.
    Ron loves a film = don't even rent.
  • scottvamp
    scottvamp Posts: 3,277
    edited May 2002
    In my eyes, subwoofers are way over-priced. How much was Polk asking for the PSW1200?
    Most paid around $900, but just the two 12's in it cost over $500. 24" of cone area. Huge Polk Power Port from hell. The rest of the money for the type of amp and the furniture build quality of the subwoofer was well worth it. At the time I was looking for a more expensive sub. Anyway spent about 10 years building car sub encolsures that would shatter windshields. Never had any interest in making a home sub. Getting the right sound for music and movies is too important. Sure I can put together a booming sub that will sound good to Snoop Dogg and look like something that I pulled out of my SUV but having an accurate/quality sub for my HT it must perform and look stunning. I can not cheat my self those extra points for DIY. What I am saying is that if I can make a sub that sounds as good are better than the (lets say PSW1200) (that even Polk brag about) for $350 than I would go into bussiness myself. :eek: 2cents
  • jeberhart
    jeberhart Posts: 69
    edited May 2002
    This all brings up another question for me. I still have the printed matter that came with my Monitor 10Bs in 1989, and I swear those damned speakers claimed a rating of 20hz, whereas my much newer 450 sub is rated down to 25 hz. What the hell is the deal? How could a sealed speaker that's 13 years old, with a tweeter and two mid/bass drivers and a passive bass radiator, be rated at 20 hz, while a dedicated sub is rated at 25? I've always wondered about this.
  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 16,412
    edited May 2002
    not all subs/speakers are created equal.
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,988
    edited May 2002
    Your monitor 10 20Hz rating is more than likely 'overall', in other words probably at the -10db downpoint. Polk rated/rates (some?) of their speakers with a +/- 3db, and an 'overall' (+/- 10db) rating to boot.

    In my opinion, anything more than the -6db downpoint is pretty much useless......

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,014
    edited May 2002
    What would Russ know?he is just a no-experience, talk out of his arse **** anyway....

    A lot of "lesser" speaker companies will only publish overall freq. response. An article I read, and I haven't done any scientific testing of this, is that really anything -3db is a waste of time.

    my advice though is to go listen....your answers lay there.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
  • ezc
    ezc Posts: 426
    edited May 2002
    I hear you! I also wish that Polk would offer a sub in the LSi line! I have a 650 that has been in for repair 2 times in 3 months. Both times they replaced the amp. I hope Polk would build a sub that would play low & be right at home in HT & music & match the LSi line.
  • goingganzo
    goingganzo Posts: 2,793
    edited May 2002
    polk meeds a bigger driver like a 15 or 18 but 2 12 dont have the area of 24 inches you use 3.14*r^2 to get area and the more air you move the lower and louder it cam play
    now the sub i would like to have is a ib sub they are the best. i saw a 4 15 inch ib sub it looks stelar i bet it hit. with subs size dues matter but the larger you get the more delay you get i would live to have 4 15subs i in each corner that would rock
  • phd500
    phd500 Posts: 75
    edited May 2002
    If one of you guys wants a PSW1200 go to the flea market forum. There is one for sale under PSW1200 for sale. Check it out
  • tony27
    tony27 Posts: 49
    edited June 2002
    polk needs to build better subwoofers to stay competitive!!!!
  • 2low4fathos
    2low4fathos Posts: 2
    edited June 2002
    i have POLK GNMX subs and they play 20 HZ all day long,its not about the subs,its about the box.
  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited June 2002
    Welcome to the forum!

    You are quite correct. The same driver in different size enclosures will roll-off at different frequencies.

    There are two ways to get really deep bass - a very large and properly tuned enclosure, or a smaller enclosure with major equalization and accordingly huge wattage requirements (ala Bob Carver and his Sunfire series).

    I prefer the former, but the latter has a loyal following too.

    Spec
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen ([email protected])
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
  • sgtgto
    sgtgto Posts: 310
    edited June 2002
    Hi Dr Spock:

    I really don't appreciate you using God's name in vain on this forum and I am sure he doesn't either.:supermad:



    Gary
  • jeberhart
    jeberhart Posts: 69
    edited June 2002
    Golly gee whillikers and gosh darn that George Clooney anyhow...:confused:
  • Dr. Spec
    Dr. Spec Posts: 3,780
    edited June 2002
    First of all, it's Dr. Spec, not Dr. Spock. I prefer not to be associated with the famous childrens care doctor, nor the Vulcan on the original Star Trek series. My shooting buddies gave me the nickname, and it's stuck ever since. Something about my photographic memory and being able to memorize the reams ballistic data required for long range shooting.

    As jeberhart alluded, it's a quote from "Oh Brother Where Art Thou". George Clooney's character uttered that line in the public store while he was trying to buy Dapper Dan hair treatment, and the clerk only had FOP.

    There's a lot worse out there than an innocent PG-13 movie reference to the word "goddammit". I'm no threat to Christianity, and I'm sorry if I offended you.

    Doc
    "What we do in life echoes in eternity"

    Ed Mullen ([email protected])
    Director - Technology and Customer Service
    SVS
  • scottvamp
    scottvamp Posts: 3,277
    edited June 2002
    I'm thinking that somebody is feeling like an **** about now. If saying "god's" name in vain offends you on a web site forum---you got alot of issues in this world man. I never heard of "god" listening to Polks either. Weird. Man now "I'm" going to burn in "hell". :rolleyes: :eek: