I was pulled over today!

heiney9

MrNightly wrote:

I don't know where you worked the street, but that is the stupidest statement I've ever heard. Nothing on your vehicle, especially the tag, is private. Hence, the tag. Anyone can copy a tag number down, especially police. I would ALWAYS run tags, and it the furthest things from "Shady" in the book. All tags are fair game... when I wore blue, I made tons of arrests off warrants on tags. Run the tag, find a warrant, book 'em. Probable Cause in the tag.

Anyways, had to comment on that.

Out

Why not drive around and run tags on cars parked in drive-ways and then knock on their door and arrest them. Why not just randomly knock on doors and runs people's names and SS#. It's the same principle, but less effort is needed to run a tag from your drivers seat. I think it stinks because one should atleast have probable cause/ be in violation to have their information run. And NO, I've never been in trouble with the law or ever had an outstanding warrant, etc. It just seems to give it a bit of a police state if officers are spending time running around looking up tags in the hope they can make that big arrest or issue a ticket. Again just randomly walk up to people on the street or in their offices and ask for their info to see if they are in violation of anything. As I mentioned I was randomly targeted, doing nothing wrong and having nothing wrong. It was a hassle and a waste of the officers time as well as mine. For the record I don't agree with random "saftey checks" either. I think it's an infringement on my rights and I shouldn't have to comply if I've done absolutely nothing other than drive down the street.

H9

MacLeod

It is no violation of your rights to have your license tag ran whenever they want to. Now if they want to detain and question you then they must have good reason, but to pull up behind you in traffic and run your tag doesnt infringe on your rights in any way. A license tag is a government issued document for your car and as such you have no expectation of privacy in driving around with it on your car. You do however have an expectation of privacy inside your car and therefore police cant just randomly search your car.

This is the stuff Im talking about that made me no longer want to get into law enforcement. Youre expected to fight crime but youd better not be rude or even be seen! You should just automatically know who the criminals are and walk up and arrest them.....just make sure you call them sir or ma'am as theyre shooting at you.

heiney9

MacLeod wrote:

It is no violation of your rights to have your license tag ran whenever they want to. Now if they want to detain and question you then they must have good reason, but to pull up behind you in traffic and run your tag doesnt infringe on your rights in any way. A license tag is a government issued document for your car and as such you have no expectation of privacy in driving around with it on your car. You do however have an expectation of privacy inside your car and therefore police cant just randomly search your car.

This is the stuff Im talking about that made me no longer want to get into law enforcement. Youre expected to fight crime but youd better not be rude or even be seen! You should just automatically know who the criminals are and walk up and arrest them.....just make sure you call them sir or ma'am as theyre shooting at you.

Yeah I understand and depending on the day of the week I'm on either side of the fence. I just got annoyed the 1 time they wasted my time for no reason whatsoever. I guess once in almost 40 years is something I shouldn't complain about. I'm mostly talking about cops with attitudes that just want to throw their weight around. I know quite a few cops and most are enamored with their authority and just tend to harass people, all legally of course. I just don't see the point of randomly running plates because your bored. And I know I can't generalize and if I come off as generalizing it's not intended. I still don't like check points or saftey checks unless there is a serial killer on the loose.

H9

neomagus00

MacLeod wrote:

Oh you mean one of the DNC's recent sci-fi political ads?

Now go ask a scientist about that movie and watch him ---->

they did, actually - popular science took four leading climate scientists, and they said that yes, it was overdone, and the timescale was too short, but if you consider it over months instead of weeks, they said it absolutely could happen. one guy compared it to a person slowly pressing on a lightswitch - nothing happens until he puts too much pressure on, then -click- and it all goes downhill...

none of them could say if it would happen in 1 year or 100, but they unanimously agreed that it will, eventually...

and as far as killing the earth, i give you this image of the ozone hole over antarctica... note that the colors don't seem that different, but there's less than half the amount of ozone there now as there was 20 years ago... check the legend carefully:

and it can, and has, been shown that this is not a natural thing, we are doing it... the fact that we can measure the ocean rising, even over the course of a couple years, due to melting ice, is testament to the fact that we are doing it - no natural force could melt that much ice, that fast

it is a real problem, and denying it exists doesn't help

MacLeod

Ah bull!

First off, if smog is the cause of ozone depletion then why is the ozone hole over Antartica where there is NO population?

Second, nobody denies that the average global temperature is rising, only that we have nothing to do with it! Back in the 70's the hippies were screaming about global cooling because the temperature was falling, now its rising so all of a sudden we're causing global warming.

Think about this, a single volcanic eruption spews out more greenhouse gasses than we have in history (we've only been industrialized a little over a century). Now there have been and continue to be constant volcanic eruptions all over the globe all the time. Do you think its logical that all these eruptions dont bother the earths climate yet the .0000000000000001% of stuff we put in the air does?

Another thing, its recently been discovered that Mars is experiencing global warming too. Does that mean there are SUV's on Mars? Or maybe the cause lies in something that we both have in common....THE SUN!

The sub is millions of times the mass of the earth and a big ball of nuclear gas that burns for 10 billion years. Do you think its going to burn at the same temperature all the time? Hell no! If the sun is burning at 10 million degrees, a change of 20-30 degrees is so miniscual as to not even be noticed but to us it will change the climate. Simple solar flares cause changes in our climate.

Also, the track the earth follows in its orbit is billions of miles long. Do you think it orbits on the exact same path every single year? Its very possible it varies by a mile or two closer or to the sun and that would change the climate.

My point is that there are far too many logical and more possible explanations for the earths temperature to be rising over the last few years to be blaming it on us who have only been industrialized a century and couldnt affect this 4 billion year old planet.

neomagus00

MacLeod wrote:

First off, if smog is the cause of ozone depletion then why is the ozone hole over Antartica where there is NO population?

an excellent question, one i've never considered... i will research it and let you know (even if i don't like the answer )

Second, nobody denies that the average global temperature is rising, only that we have nothing to do with it! Back in the 70's the hippies were screaming about global cooling because the temperature was falling, now its rising so all of a sudden we're causing global warming.

you're using 70s hippies as evidence??

Think about this, a single volcanic eruption spews out more greenhouse gasses than we have in history (we've only been industrialized a little over a century).

true, a large eruption yields an enormous amount of crap. it sends a lot of it into the upper atmosphere, where wind disperses it around the entire earth. combined with the dust that accompanies the gases, this tends to cool the earth, rather than warm it (a measurable and confirmed effect). i cannot immediately find an answer to what happens to these gases, but i'll get back to you.

Another thing, its recently been discovered that Mars is experiencing global warming too.

i've not heard this... do you have a reference i can read?

on the sun - it is true that there are variations in our orbit, and in the sun's output, but these are reasonably well-understood, and their effect has been taken into account, and it's not enough to cause the rise we've seen. a tidbit - we know the sun operates on a roughly 11-year cycle. the last max was in 2000 (with an echo in 2002), which puts us exactly in the doldrums of the sun's cycle... we should be at the coolest of the past 11 years, but we're not...

My point is that there are far too many logical and more possible explanations for the earths temperature to be rising over the last few years to be blaming it on us who have only been industrialized a century and couldnt affect this 4 billion year old planet.

we killed the dodos, a millions-of-years-old species, in a matter of years... we absolutely could wreck this planet in a matter of days, if we wanted to...

exalted512

neomagus00 wrote:

on the sun - it is true that there are variations in our orbit, and in the sun's output, but these are reasonably well-understood, and their effect has been taken into account, and it's not enough to cause the rise we've seen. a tidbit - we know the sun operates on a roughly 11-year cycle. the last max was in 2000 (with an echo in 2002), which puts us exactly in the doldrums of the sun's cycle... we should be at the coolest of the past 11 years, but we're not...

I'm sorry, but even with our technology today, theres no way anyone or any computer can take in all the variables and sum up to one simple conclusion.

Hell, our weather forecaster cant even tell if its going to rain in 4 days, how in the hell are they supposed to know that we should be decreasing in temperature as an entire planet
-Cody

bobman1235

neomagus00 wrote:

they did, actually - popular science took four leading climate scientists, and they said that yes, it was overdone, and the timescale was too short, but if you consider it over months instead of weeks, they said it absolutely could happen. one guy compared it to a person slowly pressing on a lightswitch - nothing happens until he puts too much pressure on, then -click- and it all goes downhill...

none of them could say if it would happen in 1 year or 100, but they unanimously agreed that it will, eventually...

I'm trying not to get involved in the rest of this argument that will go nowhere, but that movie was a joke by anyone with half a brain, let alone real scientists. I don' tknow what grade school they took your "scientists" out of, but the physics alone are enough to make it unwatchably stupid and unrealistic. Last I checked, that was science.

MacLeod

Space.com
Enterprisemission.com
Space.com
The Speculist.com

Those are some links on Mars warming.

And no, greenhouse gasses being spread around the atmosphere will WARM the earth. Greenhouse gasses trap the suns radiation inside the atmosphere but dont stop them from coming in. This is what has happened on Venus. The atmosphere is so thick that once the radiation is in, it cant eascape so it stays inside and continues to heat up as the radiation builds. That is why Venus is the hottest planet in the solar system at over 900 degrees, hotter even than Mercury which is closer to the sun!


We didnt kill the do-dos. Did you know that 98% of all the species that ever lived on the earth are extinct? Where did they all go? We certainly didnt kill them. Thats evolution. Species that cant cut it go extinct, its the way of things.

Think about this, go to Colorado and look at Pikes Peak. 14,000 ft. Now it was formed by the earths continental plates slamming into each other and forcing the rock up and form Pikes Peak. Now ask yourself, what made it stop? Know what, it hasnt stopped! Its still going on, only too slow for us to realize it. Again, the earth has been around for 4 billion years, weve been around a few thousand. That is such a tiny and insignifigant amount of time. The earth is so much more massive and complex than we can hardly comprehend and to think that we can destroy it or severly alter it by driving SUV's or using aerosol hair sprays is just not logical! To quote Pai Me, "compared to me, youre as helpless as a worm fighting an eagle!"

exalted512

MacLeod wrote:

We didnt kill the do-dos. Did you know that 98% of all the species that ever lived on the earth are extinct? Where did they all go? We certainly didnt kill them. Thats evolution. Species that cant cut it go extinct, its the way of things.

insert hoping the liberals go extinct joke here
-Cody

1996blackmax

MacLeod wrote:

Dude, you know that on the oceans floor there are geysers of oil spewing into the ocean up from the earths crust at the rated of millions of gallons a day? This has been going on for eons. Notice that there arent any pools of oil on top of the ocean and its still blue?

This planet has been here for BILLIONS of years and bigger than most people can comprehend. We couldnt change the climate or destroy the oceans or atmosphere if we wanted to.

No lessons needed here Mac, I actually have read a little bit in my time. I am not as ignorant as you may think .

MacLeod

Well that was intended for Neo. He's kind of a hippy so you have to take it slow with him otherwise youll lose him.

1996blackmax

MacLeod wrote:

Well that was intended for Neo. He's kind of a hippy so you have to take it slow with him otherwise youll lose him.

Wow
:eek:



Made me laugh out loud again!

neomagus00

MacLeod wrote:

Well that was intended for Neo. He's kind of a hippy so you have to take it slow with him otherwise youll lose him.

okay, even i thought that was funny

from the journal Discovery, this article describes the major eruption of a volcano in 1993, which did indeed lower the temperature over most of the earth

this article from NASA agrees with the mars warming, but reasons that we don't know enough to figure out why... perhaps it's just coming out of an ice age, who knows... in any case, it does not necessarily relate to our problem... i didn't read 'enterprisemission.com' or 'thespeculist.com', those are an enthusiast site and a blog, respectively... gotta have good sources to have a good argument

cody - you are very correct, we cannot predict everything, but we most certainly have the ability to predict large-scale events, to a degree... read that volcano article, it describes exactly what we do have the capability to predict, and to what degree... weather is different, because the distances and times are so much smaller (one county compared to one country, and one day compared to one decade)

mac - true, we didn't kill 98% of the species out there, that was an example to show that we can destroy pretty much anything we want, except roaches...

pikes peak - i'm not entirely sure what your point is, perhaps you could expound a bit?

bobman1235 - i agree with you that this will not go anywhere, but i stopped reading that article after a few paragraphs... i'd ripped too many holes in it by then to bother continuing... i'd be glad to read anything else you might care to link to, though, but know that you're talking to a physics guy, so i demand proof and reliability insofar as you can prove anything reliably in climatology... i can tell you what i thought of in in more detail if you like, so i can show you i'm not just pulling this denial out of my arse, but i didn't want to type it all out if i didn't have to

and i'm minorly offended that blackmax equated my point of view with ignorance, if that matters to anyone :rolleyes:... those of you that know me know that me getting offended is rather rare...

PoweredByDodge

... i love how ill informed persons, fearing change, or even fearing their own demise, believe they can deny a problem away.

sorry, that only works with illegitimate children.

98thumpin

i dont like it when cops give u trouble about a damned sticker woopded do dont they have criminals to capture

MacLeod

The Pikes Peak analogy was meant to show just how A) the earth moves around in terms of millions of years. A change in something over 20 years is so miniscual as to not even matter and to show how helpless we are in the face of Mother Nature.

Whatchu talking about Vinny? We're not denying a problem away we're just not jumping on the bandwagon that "Oh my God, the earths temperature has climbed 2 degrees, it must be because mankind is destroying the earth!" That is a totally ridiculous statement. We inhabit 11% of the earth's surface and have only been industrialized for 100 years but yet we've managed to completely screw up the earths atmosphere that has survived billions of years of world wide fires, world wide floods, world wide volcanic eruptions, world wide bombardment from asteroids and comets, solar flare eruptions, magnetic reversal of the poles, constant bombardment of cosmic radiation with no problem but your Dodge Ram has finished it off? Bull manure!

1996blackmax

neomagus00 wrote:

and i'm minorly offended that blackmax equated my point of view with ignorance, if that matters to anyone :rolleyes:... those of you that know me know that me getting offended is rather rare...

My comments were geared towards Mac, not you neo. Deep breath . I was just stating that I am not as ingnorant as Mac probably thought I was.

MacLeod

See, I told you. Hippies. Theyre awfully touchy.

98thumpin

yes they are but may i ask how this convo got turned into a debate on earth health

MacLeod

You must be new here. We here at Club Polk pride ourselves on being the Grand Champions of thread derails! I dare say, we're the best on the internet at it!

PoweredByDodge

the earth was also not always inhabitable to human beings...

point is -- yes, by default, the earth will recover... but in order to do so, it will probably become so polluted that we all drop over dead... at which time, it'll start a billion year long process of rebirth.

and actually - i'm not bitching about cars so much as nuclear power plants, coal power plants, and dirty industry.

MacLeod

Nuclear power is one of the most effecient and cleanest sources of energy we have! We need more of em!

neomagus00

blackmax - okay, we're cool

mac - all those volcanic eruptions, magnetic reversals, etc. you speak of... what do you think they did? that's right, they caused the mass extinctions we've seen in the fossil records... this is the next one... and pbd's got it, if we push it too far and hit the edge, the earth will recover, in millions of years, but will we still be here, and will it be the earth we remember? and don't say that's just evolution, because evolution doesn't include your Ram...

you did get one thing right, we are helpless in the face of nature, but it doesn't work the other way around... and the earth doesn't necessarily operate over millions of years... consider that a volcano eruption can affect the entire earth's climate beginning in a matter of weeks... granted, the effect is gone in a matter of years, but it's a matter of what you consider a 'permanent' or 'considerable' effect...

and yay nuclear power! we agree on something!

PoweredByDodge

nuclear power is very efficient and clean --- until you have to figure out where to dump the waste.

98thumpin

im not to new but i guess im new enough

MacLeod

neomagus00 wrote:

mac - all those volcanic eruptions, magnetic reversals, etc. you speak of... what do you think they did? that's right, they caused the mass extinctions we've seen in the fossil records... this is the next one... and pbd's got it, if we push it too far and hit the edge, the earth will recover, in millions of years, but will we still be here, and will it be the earth we remember? and don't say that's just evolution, because evolution doesn't include your Ram...

you did get one thing right, we are helpless in the face of nature, but it doesn't work the other way around... and the earth doesn't necessarily operate over millions of years... consider that a volcano eruption can affect the entire earth's climate beginning in a matter of weeks... granted, the effect is gone in a matter of years, but it's a matter of what you consider a 'permanent' or 'considerable' effect...

First off, the volcanic eruptions do cool the earth by blowing debris into the atmosphere and that blocks the sun light, but I was talking about all the greenhouse gasses that are released by an eruption. The very same gases that are supposedly changing the climate right now due to our SUV's.

Oh my freaking God. So you seriously think we're heading for a mass extinction from global warming? C'mon man! The constant bombardment of radiation from space and the sun, the constant volcanic eruptions, the fissures leaking methane gas into the air and the oil pouring into the ocean from the sea floor are natural and part of evolution. The tiny little amounts of crap we put in the air is so little its not funny. I go back to my "trying to change to color of the ocean with a dropper of food coloring."

And a volcanic eruption can effect the climate due to the debris blown into the atmosphere and its gone in a matter of days not years.

Like you said, we are helpless in the face of mother nature. We can effect small, localized changes in the earth but we couldnt create a mountain if we wanted to, we couldnt create a volcano if we wanted to, we couldnt destroy the ozone layer if we wanted to.

I dont understand why the climate alarmists see the climate changing over the last few years and automatically assume its the beginning of a mass extinction. The earth has been around for 4 billion years. Do you really think its been at the same temperature the entire time? The earth, atmosphere, sun, radiation, orbit and a billion other things are constantly changing.

Just remember, the 70's were all about global cooling because the temperature had been dropping over the last several years. We cant predict the weather more than 3 days in advance. So how are we supposed to know that we'll all be extinct because of SUV's in the future?

98thumpin

well i got my stupid inspection sticker this morning 15 dollers for a damn sticker.

1996blackmax

A few years back someone stole my sticker. I went down to the DMV, showed them my registration, and still had to pay $10 dollars to get one. Not cool at all!