Wire...is It Worth It????

mantis · May 2002

OK,
here it is the question for all.
feel free to jump right in.WIRE the all mighty question that never really gets answered does it?
How many of you stare at all the pretty colors of wire and wonder????
the Question is DOES IT OR IS IT WORTH ALL THIS MONEY????
CAN I HEAR A DIFFERENCE????
WHY CAN'T I JUST USE LAMP CORD?????

I say WHY NOT JUST USE RADIO SHACK SPEAKER'S...BETTER YEAT USE A CLOCK RADIO.....WHAT THE HELL!!!!!

No one in hear seems to have any money for wire anyway.......but you bought the Polk's........they aren't free.

Aaron · May 2002

You beat me to it! I was going to start this thread! Since you brought it up, I believe in fancy speaker wire and interconnects. However, the cheaper your gear the less you'll benefit from it. I've experienced everything from no improvement to staggering improvement with speaker wire and interconnects, and I haven't even tried that many kinds!

Aaron

mantis · May 2002

someone hears me

RuSsMaN · May 2002

You two need a room? Mantis, its not a money issue for most, just do what I asked, if you can.

Show me hard data why wire A is better than wire B. Not manufacturers claims, but hard data. That's all I ask. I love the rant, but try to make some sense, it comes across better.

Cheers,
Russ

Aaron · May 2002

Strange comments coming from someone who was praising those interconnects you picked up the other week.

Aaron

mantis · May 2002

Russ,
you want hard data.....why?Do you not have the ability to test your own theories or ones you read?
OK,
this is all I will give on my hard data...whatever that means......
I started ut with my first good wire years ago.I bought it at Bryn Mawr Stereo And Video.It was 12-2 Monster old xp wire that came in bulk rolls.I replaced my radio shack 16-2 wire that I used for many years,never really considering wire as a sound factor.I used it at first as bare wire.As soon as I hooked it up, my system sounded different.I was curious.I listened to Def Leppard Hysteria(my new cd I just picked up then)and listened.WOW it's so clear.I can hear everything going on in the music as if someone added speakers to my room for every instrument.The wire....it did all this???can't be, so I put the old radioshack wire back on and listened again.What happened???It's all closed up sounding???Again in disbelief,I switched out the cables and back came the music,crystal clear.Man wire can do all that...I never realised it made that much odf a difference in home stereo.
I used different guitar cables and heard difference's......I found Whirlwind guitar cables to sound ever so sweat no matter what guitar I plugged it into(i owned several).Now the speaker wire in home stereo make a difference as well.
I bought the Monstercable because I friend got some and raved about it.I started to buy the interconnect's for my tape deck and cd player and found the same results.Better sound quality.
Over the years,I have swapped out wire for this brand and the next,my friend would buy one kind of wire and I would buy another,we tested the wire's against each other to find some wire sounds better than others and some favor a certain kind of speaker/amp connected to it.
You see Russ,I don't speak of claims of companies prasing there products.I also don't go all techy,writing what I read.
Over the last couple of years being an Installer,I got to hear wire I couldn't afford years ago,like Nortist,Kimbercable,Transparent,MITT.These are high end cables to name just a few.
When I worked at Bryn Mawr,then turned into Tweeter,we only carried Monstercable.So instore testing was fun as I brought other wire from home and did in store test's against Monsters line.Again no techy stuff,no company babble,real world testing.
I can get as techy as the best of them as I am a trained professional.I can also resite wire claims from just about every wire company around including wire not sold around here.I go to shows,cedia,home entertainment,training with manufactors.
I install all kinds of wire in peoples homes everday.They just don't shop at our store(Soundex)or Tweeter(where I used to work).They come from all over the world,different countries,states as well.I have heard so many different kinds of wire.
But for you to sit and read this and go off on just my test's is a start but not a finish.You as in YOU need to go out there and find your own answer's.This post is a good place to get idea's on where to start.
In all my experience I have found every part of a system is equal in Importance.Even the room your system lives in makes all the difference in the world.Don't belive me....PROVE ME WRONG!
The only way to do that is do it yourself.You might learn something.You might go to the patchcord and lamp cord wires.hey if it works in your system and your happy.....cool.

TroyD · May 2002

Generally speaking, I think you would need to apply common sense. Wire that costs, say, under a couple bucks a foot, similar guage, should sound pretty similar. Which is better is probably more of question of personal preference. If you take wire that costs, say, a hundred dollars a foot, yeah, you should be hearing a noticeable difference.

Added to that, you empirically prove that the response of one speaker is better than another so the rat shack speaker vs. whatever speaker doesn't hold any water.

All I am saying is you need to compare apples to apples.

Troy

RuSsMaN · May 2002

Ok, so you heard a difference, we covered that, and thats great. What makes 14awg home depot/bulk/lamp not as good as 14awg monster? You still have not presented any data.

I'm not saying to not spend a little money on cables, if nothing else, good cable LOOKS good, and makes for a clean install.

My beef is not with you, or monster, or any cable manufacturer, and I HOPE there is a sonic difference between lamp cord and Audioquest Volcano's...There better be for the price. But basic XXXguage wire, is just that. Hell, Monster makes and packages speaker cord for RCA, do you consider RCA speaker cable sub-par?

Don't take offense, just discussing a topic, and participating in the now '**** storm' wire debate.

Cheers,
Russ

Aaron · May 2002

What's your take on the AQ Type 4+ and the MIT Terminator 4 cables?

Aaron

RuSsMaN · May 2002

Between the two, I think Audioquest has a slightly higher goosebump factor, if that makes sense, and the finish is cool.

The MIT really did nothing for me, didn't notice a difference from standard 12/14 awg cord. I've heard from some others that the Term 2 is decent, but too much coin just to 'test' it.

One thing I will give MIT is there termination 'lock' options, Monster does something similar. Especially when dealing with vintage, or older gear, its nice to be able to change the cable to spades, pins, or bananas with a few bucks and a 'click'.

Cheers,
Russ

TroyD · May 2002

I think that what Russ is trying to get at is not opinion but actual #'s to prove it.

IE. Is there numbers to prove that if you use Brand X that you increase your bass output and extra 3db's over Brand Y....that sort of thing.

If there is no such data than I would agree that it's all just opinion, that being the case one could definately see where there is room for disagreement.

BDT

Aaron · May 2002

I would have guessed the AQ's were better. I have Terminator 3 cables. Unfortunately I've only ever tested them on my Sony ES receiver in my little dorm/apartment last year. My freakin' Yamaha and Sony amps don't accept bananas. Even on the Sony ES receiver I did notice an improvement over the Monster Cable XP, but it was fairly subtle. The most noticable thing was an increase in the size of the sound stage. I'd really like to be able to test them out on my separates system. Oh, well. New gear is on the horizon, and it will take bananas! I suspect given a real room and a separates system, the difference between the two cables will be pretty obvious.

Aaron

RuSsMaN · May 2002

Pop them nanner's off the amp end, and get to using em in with the seperates....

-R

Aaron · May 2002

Pop them nanner's off the amp end, and get to using em in with the seperates....

How? My separates don't accept bananas or spades, only bare wire.

Aaron

TroyD · May 2002

for an objective answer.....

1. How can you say that if there is no appreciable difference on a given speaker with a receiver and separates then there is with wire. If you reason that all components are equal then if you say one component doesn't make a difference than how can another?

2. ARE there any technical specs proving the superiority of one cable over another?

I'm not trying to prolong a **** storm but I feel that these are legit questions........

BDT

RuSsMaN · May 2002

Aaron, dont you have Term 3's? They have the ICONN system, remove the banana, and use the pin into the spring clip connectors on your amp(s).....

Cheers,
Russ

Aaron · May 2002

use the pin into the spring clip connectors on your amp(s).....

They don't have spring clip connectors! The Yamaha has that funky twist thing and the Sony has a glorified clip connector. I guess I could use them on the Sony, but that would probably be a waste anyway.

Aaron

RuSsMaN · May 2002

Gotcha, I forgot which yam you had....

Cheers,
Russ

weavercr · May 2002

Speaker cable development over the last 20 years has been very disappointing, especially when you consider how many different cable marketers there have been and how much money some audiophiles are prepared to spend to get the highest quality.

To prove that assertion, it is only in the last year that I finally heard a speaker wire that can even approach my reference from the late 1970s.

That means there hasnt been any actual improvement in speaker cables in more than 20 years. This is the only component category that hasn't moved forward during that time.

SPEAKER CABLES AND THE MAGAZINES
Some audio magazines have claimed that every cable sounds exactly the same. They're wrong, but cable differences have usually been grossly overstated. They can still be an avenue to achieve the performance you are looking for. It is also sadly true that most speaker cables, particularly the ultra-expensive, are obscenely overpriced.

The so-called "underground" audio magazines will never tell you this because not only do the cable companies spend "big bucks" advertising with them, but they also give the 'reviewers' their cables for free. Why not, the cable companies typically pay 4% (or even less!) of the retail list price for them from the actual cable manufacturers.

weavercr · May 2002

A little known Fact is Polk Had the best wire. Late 70's IMO still the best.

weavercr · May 2002

POLK (COBRA) SPEAKER CABLE (MULTIPLES ONLY)- This speaker wire (8 cables in parallel) has proven to be superior to every other cable that I have compared with it, at all prices points, for over 20 years now.

The Polk is very transparent, lucid, clean and extended in the highs. It is not for those audiophiles looking for something "euphonic" to complement digital or solid-state sound. It is the most revealing cable ever made and it must be used in parallel or else it will sound lean on low-impedance speakers.

Based on long-term experiences, eight cables in parallel will work with everything, and four with most speakers*. The overall length must be as short as possible. The Polk does have one noticeable weakness; its bass is not the equal of some of its rivals in the areas of weight and impact, but its bass definition is still as good as anything made even today.

*One cable will work well with tweeters.

The History
Polk Speakers did not manufacture this cable. It was designed and manufactured by a cable company in Japan (name unknown). Polk marketed it at the time as an alternative to the early Fulton cables. They were aware of what they had, the best speaker cables around, but they marketed it in the wrong manner. They sold it in single pairs and in very long lengths. Unfortunately, that is the exact opposite of the correct method for optimizing its unequalled potential.

The result: Very few people ever heard this cable at its best.

If that wasn't enough, all of the reviewers at the time, with one noteable exception, dismissed this cable as inferior, if not actually dangerous to use (with transistor amps). This all occurred when there was the initial explosion of cable companies back in the early 1980's.

The result: The Polk was quickly forgotten.

Polk-The Science Behind It
There are no "secrets" or "magic" behind the unprecedented performance of this cable. It simply has the lowest inductance of any cable ever made, which means it is the "fastest", and it also has the most extended high frequencies.

The actual wire is very fine and pure, and it is damped on its inside and outside by polyethylene. Both the resistance and capacitance are high. The resistance will be lowered by both shortening the cable and also running them in parallel. The high capacitance is not a problem for tube amplifiers, but it can be a serious problem for unstable (usually older) transistor designs.

Identification
The Polk is round* and about the diameter of a common interconnect. Through the clear outer plastic, you can see very fine green and copper wires, bundled together, and intertwined (overlapped) with each other.

Wire...is It Worth It????

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