Would I need a seperate CD player for music.

P-Town Polk · February 2006

Hello all.
First off im not too big on cranking up my polks with music but would wonder if I was to get a dedicated cd player for music only (not through DVD player) would it make a difference? I was reading some specs on certain cd players and was wondering what I should look for in a quality cd player, either it be multi or not. I think the DAC ratio may have something to do with it and also the DB noise??

runnin'
polk monitor 60's
monitor 40's
monito 30's
CS1
PSW 10
Pioneer elite

not extacly the music set up BUT still i want the best of what I can get out of my system and if adding a cd player will help music sound better than I'm in.:cool:

thank you all ahead of time, your time is greatly appreciated.

mantis · February 2006

What DVD player do you have?

P-Town Polk · February 2006

pioneer dvd player, entry model not elite. was 80 bucks. new

steveinaz · February 2006

Honestly, given your current components, I doubt a "modest" dedicated CDP will make any difference. I don't say that to be a snob, just being realistic about how subtle the difference would be even in a high-end system. Alot would be dependant on how much you're willing to spend; adding a $300 CDP would be a waste, IMO. You may begin to notice things light tighter, deeper bass, smoother midrange and less digital glare with a more expensive player, but that's gonna take more money...

There's 2 instances where I may be full of ****:
1. You do have golden ears
2. You are ready and willing to spend $750+ to get you some substantial improvement

steveinaz · February 2006

In my experience (read that, my opinion) you've 3 tiers of CDP's at/under $1k:

1. $0-$300 (your run-of-the-mill) CDP
2. $301-$750 (a step up, better DAC's, usually some unique engineering, better build quality)
3. $751-$1000 (very good, not flagship but very respectable performance when compared to the "big" boys, excellent build quality, extreme attention to details, ie, power supply, wire routing, transport isolation, etc.)

These prices would be suggested Retail on a new unit, not 'street pricing, ebay, etc. Just a rule of thumb for me, and a personal opinion.

P-Town Polk · February 2006

yeah it seems so. I find it funny that my system is worth close to $2500 and it is modest, but i guess that how it goes. It kind of like cars.......a new BMW or Lexus...or the high end bently for 350,000 grand? who could actually afford that..maybe 50 cent. There should be a seperate forum for people who spend 20,000 dollars on their system and call it high end. They would have a lot more in common..

steveinaz · February 2006

Well, "modest" is a relative term. To your next door neighbor running an emerson boombox, you & I have "esoteric systems"..LOL. Just don't want you to waste money on something that has the potential to be very subtle depending upon it's associated equipment. Then again, if you have a golden ear, you may hear differences in even a modest CDP. I don't have golden ears, nor deep pockets.

I couldn't justify spending a grand on a CDP on mine in all honesty. I have about $6500 in mine and I consider it "mid-fi." You've got a nice base system there, if it does what you like, and raises the hairs on your neck, that's all that matters. I'm just thinking that you might want to move into seperates before looking at a dedicated CDP---to make it a worthwhile upgrade.

P-Town Polk · February 2006

thanks steve. I think your right. my neighbor already hates me!

Hoop · February 2006

If you're really an audiophile, you might see some benefit I guess.

Personally, I saw no benefit in it. I have a similar speaker setup and probably a similar receiver and worse DVD player.

It is nice to have multiple outs on your DVD though so you can connect one to CD on your receive and not have to worry about having to mess with playback formats (5.1 vs 2.0 or 2.1).

shack · February 2006

P-Town Polk wrote:

yeah it seems so. I find it funny that my system is worth close to $2500 and it is modest, but i guess that how it goes. It kind of like cars.......a new BMW or Lexus...or the high end bently for 350,000 grand? who could actually afford that..maybe 50 cent. There should be a seperate forum for people who spend 20,000 dollars on their system and call it high end. They would have a lot more in common..

Part of the reason it is "modest" is that the cost/value of your setup is driven up by the sheer volume of gear. Just the way it is for HT. There are several folks here who run DVD/CD players that will run $2,500 and NOT be considered "high end". While your Polks aren't entry level, they are below at least 3 other Polk lines in terms of cost/quality (RM, RTi and LSi) and only the LSi line is approaching "high end". That said...you have a nice system...modest or not.

I would tell you a better source could make a difference for music. I always think improving the source is a good place to start. Very good CDPs in a reasonable price range can be found in this thread:

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35737

If you want a multiformat player that would give you a good quality audio as well as DVD playback, the Cambridge Audio DVD-87 seems to be getting some attention lately for around $270. Here is a link to Audio Advisor to check it out.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=CAMBDVD87&product_name=DVD-87%20DVD%20Player%20-%20Silver

With any of the players listed in the above threads you could see what a better source can do in your rig without spending a lot of money. Worth a shot IMO.

F1nut · February 2006

It all starts with the source, IMO. This is what will happen, you'll upgrade your cdp and then you'll realize that your other gear is limiting the cdp playback, so you'll upgrade that gear and then you'll realize that the cdp is now the limiting factor, so you'll upgrade it again only to realize that your other gear is limiting the new cdp and on it goes..............

Seriously, if you're after better sound, keep upgrading until you're happy.

adam2434 · February 2006

For CDs, are you using the DAC (digital-analog convertor) in the DVD player or receiver? If you only have a digital audio cable (optical or coax) from the DVD player, and are not using any stereo RCA cables, you are using the DAC in the receiver. Try the receiver's DAC if you're not already.

In my experience, the DAC in a Pioneer Elite receiver is better than the DAC in an inexpensive DVD player. I have owned 2 Elite receivers and a non-Elite DVD changer.

In my modest-by-many-standards system at the time (which was based on the original NHT Super Series) I could hear subtle, but not insignificant, differences between the DVD player's DAC, receiver's DAC, and stand alone CD player. Not surprisingly, sound quality was
CD player > receiver DAC > DVD DAC

My current CD player was only $350, and the one before that was about the same, a Marantz 67se. I could also hear definite differences between them, and sometimes regret selling the Marantz.

The only way you'll know if a CD player is a worthwhile upgrade is to set a budget and try some players. A lot of it will depend on your ears, listening habits, and music tastes. Give us a budget, and we can provide some suggestions.

cfrizz · February 2006

WAAAAA!!!! Jesse, that is about as helpful as telling him to buy every CDP on the market!!!:D

F1nut wrote:

It all starts with the source, IMO. This is what will happen, you'll upgrade your cdp and then you'll realize that your other gear is limiting the cdp playback, so you'll upgrade that gear and then you'll realize that the cdp is now the limiting factor, so you'll upgrade it again only to realize that your other gear is limiting the new cdp and on it goes..............

Seriously, if you're after better sound, keep upgrading until you're happy.

mantis · February 2006

In your system you own now, I see no need for a better cd player. Make sure you use quality Inerconnects between your DVD player and Receiver VIA cd input. Use the Digital for DVD playback.

If you decide to upgrade your system, speakers would be my first choice, then receiver then source to match.

Dan

Mike Reeter · February 2006

What many of us has come to realize is,that,if you want GOOD quality music playback,you almost need to start setting up a dedicated 2-channel rig.

You have the makings of a very GOOD Home Theater system,but,if you want more out of your CD's think about a seperate rig for music only.

I know this might sound extreme,but you can purchase very good used gear at a decent price and have a killer 2-channel setup for less than you might think.

Amp./pre-amp./CD player/a pair of good musical speakers and some good cables and your there...You can find some very good intergraded amps. well worth the money if you shop around.

dragon1952 · February 2006

How do you listen to music. Do you sit in the sweet spot and take it all in or is it mainly for background music? If background then you probably won't notice a whole lot of difference. If the latter then IMO I think you could definitely spend no more than $400 new or used and notice a decent improvement. Maybe as low as $150-$200 used like an Onix XCD-88 or NAD C521i or a little more for a Music Hall CD-25 or a NAD C541i.

P-Town Polk · February 2006

I listen to music as more of a background source, so I think my set up may be just fine for now until i move it to a bigger room. Its seems that a lot of people talk about how the listeners ears are and if they are good or not...well, the weirdest thing happen today. I have had my system with digital cable(comcast for 4 months now and enjoyed digital cable on modest levels. Well, earlier today I was messin' around up stairs and all the sudden the dialoge increased and open-ness increased atleast 10db, meaning that -30 now sounded like -20. It was so obvious that I ran down stairs to see if someone was turning up the volume. NO ONE WAS THERE. Now 75% of the channels are ear bleeding loud. I was worried at first thinking something blew but I found nothing wrong. I think my speakers are beyond break in and I have them Bi-wired. Somethings going on, but I cant figure it out. its almost like someone turned up the channel levels of each speaker to max. does anyone know whats going on...since when does digital cable sound as clear and MORE loud than a DVD. Its like DTS cable, it almost hurts.....does anyone else have this problem? Or has comcast gracefully upgraded by audio tracks for cable????:rolleyes: yeah right....
Im not bluffin here it was night and day difference. Did I damage my system?

ohskigod · February 2006

sounds like a digital cable issue. just play a dvd (a known steady source) and see how it plays. my system can sound goofy on my digital cable on occation when there are problems.

or perhaps the signal from the dig cable is switching your reciever between surround modes, which can sound wierd too. just play the dvd and see if everything is ok with the rest of the system that way before you panic

F1nut · February 2006

cfrizz wrote:

WAAAAA!!!! Jesse, that is about as helpful as telling him to buy every CDP on the market!!!:D

But Cathy, it's all true.

danger boy · February 2006

P-Town Polk wrote:

Hello all.
First off im not too big on cranking up my polks with music but would wonder if I was to get a dedicated cd player for music only (not through DVD player) would it make a difference? I was reading some specs on certain cd players and was wondering what I should look for in a quality cd player, either it be multi or not. I think the DAC ratio may have something to do with it and also the DB noise??

runnin'
polk monitor 60's
monitor 40's
monito 30's
CS1
PSW 10
Pioneer elite

not extacly the music set up BUT still i want the best of what I can get out of my system and if adding a cd player will help music sound better than I'm in.:cool:

thank you all ahead of time, your time is greatly appreciated.

Here's my take on this. Why not purchase a CDP you like.. demo it in your house with your gear.. and then keep it if you notice a difference.. or return it if it doesn't meet your expectations. (Check first to make sure the store will let you return it though with no restocking fees).

Sounds like a win win situation to me.

I personally, prefer to listen to CD's using a CDP. I have done my fair share of listening with a DVD player too. There is nothing wrong at all using a DVDP for CD listening.

steveinaz · February 2006

adam2434 wrote:

In my experience, the DAC in a Pioneer Elite receiver is better than the DAC in an inexpensive DVD player. I have owned 2 Elite receivers and a non-Elite DVD changer.

Good point Adam...

cfrizz · February 2006

I know Jesse! That's whats so scary!!!:eek: WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!:D

F1nut wrote:

But Cathy, it's all true.

Willow · February 2006

P-Town Polk wrote:

I listen to music as more of a background source, so I think my set up may be just fine for now until i move it to a bigger room. Its seems that a lot of people talk about how the listeners ears are and if they are good or not...well, the weirdest thing happen today. I have had my system with digital cable(comcast for 4 months now and enjoyed digital cable on modest levels. Well, earlier today I was messin' around up stairs and all the sudden the dialoge increased and open-ness increased atleast 10db, meaning that -30 now sounded like -20. It was so obvious that I ran down stairs to see if someone was turning up the volume. NO ONE WAS THERE. Now 75% of the channels are ear bleeding loud. I was worried at first thinking something blew but I found nothing wrong. I think my speakers are beyond break in and I have them Bi-wired. Somethings going on, but I cant figure it out. its almost like someone turned up the channel levels of each speaker to max. does anyone know whats going on...since when does digital cable sound as clear and MORE loud than a DVD. Its like DTS cable, it almost hurts.....does anyone else have this problem? Or has comcast gracefully upgraded by audio tracks for cable????:rolleyes: yeah right....
Im not bluffin here it was night and day difference. Did I damage my system?

Was it by chanse HD cable? I notice that in HD the volume has to be turned up a bit more when it's in DD and some commercials are not DD and this makes it seems much louder.

aaharvel · February 2006

i noticed a big difference when i went from newer model changer to older model single-tray. From bright and brittle to neutral and dry. However, if you're not using the analog connections, then it makes no difference.

danger boy · February 2006

aaharvel wrote:

i noticed a big difference when i went from newer model changer to older model single-tray. From bright and brittle to neutral and dry. However, if you're not using the analog connections, then it makes no difference.

me too. I went from a new Marantz carousel changer to a 10 yr old NAD. big difference in sound quailty, using analog or digital outputs.

Would I need a seperate CD player for music.

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