Amp choosing and wiring help

deepinya · February 2006

Ok I got a question about wht AMP to buy and how to wire it up. My original thread is HERE in case you wanna read up on it.

Heres what I have planned out.

Eclipse cd8445 (already have this)
MMC6500 front
MMC690 rear
No sub for now but I MAYBE looking at (2) 8" ones cause space is important. I wanna see how it all sounds before deciding if I even want subs.

Now here are the questions
Do I want
400.4 to power my fronts and rears
400.4 (bi-amped)for my fronts 300.2 for my rears
300.2 for fronts 300.2 for rears
300.2 for fronts 400.4 for rears plus channel 3+4 bridged for my sub (if I choose)

Keep in mind that (2) 300.2 will cost the same as (1) 400.4. I really have no clue how loud 125 watts is. I can turn my stock system up all the way and I wish it was twice as loud/clear at times.

I know most of you will say forget the rear speakers but when I turn off my rears in my stock rig, it sounds as if Im missing something. WIll two 8" subs fill that void? Im not sure.

Ok now onto the wiring questions.

I see a lot of premade dual AMP kits online. Im probably gonna go that route but I dont know what gauge kit (4,8,2?) to look into for the system Im looking to build. For the actual speaker wire I will go to my local shop and grab some street wire.

If anyone has any tutorials for what I may need that would be great. Im looking to have this whole thing done before the march 5th weekend. As a thanks I will provide pics.

deepinya · February 2006

A different question about the mmc6500. Should I put the tweeter in the stock spot next to the windshield or in the door panel where I see some people putting it? I can probably figure a way to put it in the mirror too.

thanks!

MaC03 · February 2006

See the thread I just posted if you decide on the 400.4. $264 at SD with coupon.

MacLeod · February 2006

Get a single 400.4 and run all 4 speakers off of it.

Get a 4 guage wiring kit from your local shop which will be big enough if you decide to add an extra amp later.

Put the tweeters where they sound best. Get some 3M double side tape and try them in different locations and wherever they sound best, thats where you mount em.

1996blackmax · February 2006

If you are not going to have passengers, foget the rear speakers. Put that money towards a sub. I would get the 400.4 to biamp the components.

deepinya · February 2006

dammit blackmax we've gone over this already!

Ill make you a deal. If I get a sub and still feel like Im missing something YOU buy me some mmc690's!

deepinya · February 2006

I see a lot of different AMP kits and the pricing depends on the brand.

I see
jl audio
stree wires
scoche

All these kits come with the same equipment (4g, fuses, etc) but price ranges drastically.

Is a wire a wire or will paying more money get me better sound?

Greg Peters · February 2006

I wouldn't say "a wire is a wire".

Ever bought cheap jumper cables that you kept stored in the trunk, and when you finally uncoiled them to use, the insulation had degraded, cracked, and fell clean off?

For your main power wire from battery through the firewall, it pays to have some good insulation on there that will stand up to engine compartment heat, oil, flexing, etc. It pays to protect it with a wire loom and some harness tape, too.

Even if you put a loom over it in all in places where it matters most, power wire that is snaked all through the car to your amplifiers should ideally be able to stand up to all kinds of things- it would be a **** to have a dead short somewhere (even if fused right near the battery, like it should be) because some insulation cracked over time and your bared wire contacted vehicle ground.

Pick a reputable brand, and protect the wire you run from any potential pinch points (think in terms of a collision). Run a fuse close to the max current draw for all down stream components, and keep in mind that most amplifiers draw enough current to cause a fire in the event of a dead short (however brief, before your fuse blows).

Pick the power kit you will be able to deal with best during install. Some kits have connections that require a specific crimper (or soldering), and some have set-screw type connections at the fuse block, distribution block etc. If you don't plan to solder or buy a large crimper, the set screw type of connections may cost a little more but save a bunch of work.

Unless you are dealing online, convince a sales person to crack open a package for you to look at (or check the bulk rolls in the install dept.). Quality varies brand to brand (and even within different lines from the same manufacturer). The kits do save you some money over buying all the pieces individually. You can usually buy whatever you need (over and above what is in the kit) from bulk stock for not much more.

audiobliss · February 2006

Excellent advice above. Take it and fly with it. There is definitely a point of diminishing returns with wires (as there is with everything), but within reason the more you spend on wires, the better the quality, reliability, and performance. That goes with power/ground wire, speaker wire, and interconnects. Don't go overboard, but don't buy bottom of the rung, either.

I would suggest adding one more step to your incremental install. Just go with the HU, whichever main amp you decide you want, and the MMC6500s. Install that and listen to it without rear speakers and determine if it still sounds 'dead'. If it does, then add some MMC690s. If it doesn't, then welcome to increased detail, better imaging, and a clearer soundstage.

About the amp, I would personally choose the C400.4 to bi-amp the MMC6500s, but to be honest, the C300.2 would do a fine job, too.

MacLeod · February 2006

A wire is a wire. Go to Walmart and buy one of their Scoshe wiring kits. You can pick up a 4 guage kit for like $20.

RCA's need to be a little fancier for their imporved noise rejection, resistance and connections but power wire is all the same.

neomagus00 · February 2006

addendum - car wire from a reputable manufacturer will all work well - 12 cent cable will not, house wiring cable will not... buy big on RCAs, it's worth it...

audiobliss · February 2006

Eh, don't listen to Mac. He's still on the dark side when it comes to cables!

Streetwires and knukonceptz both make great quality cables/wires at good prices.

MacLeod · February 2006

Well, I guess if I just dumped $500 on RCA's Id swear they sounded better too.

audiobliss · February 2006

I'm not aware of anyone who has dumped $500 on RCA's, but...yeah...I'd be in love with them if they cost that much!!

neomagus00 · February 2006

i think that a truly objective mind can get past the price tag and actually judge a product based on its sound... but i still say all decent cables sound the same

(tonally - not including induced noise!)

1996blackmax · February 2006

deepinya wrote:

dammit blackmax we've gone over this already!

Ill make you a deal. If I get a sub and still feel like Im missing something YOU buy me some mmc690's!

Guess I forgot

. I would buy you those if you get me an ARC series sub

.

MacLeod · February 2006

Frank-Z over on the HA side said it best and its the motto I try to live by.

My ears = no difference
Your ears = not my problem

1996blackmax · February 2006

That's a good one

.

audiobliss · February 2006

That's gotta be my second favorite quote.

deepinya · February 2006

So Ill assume scoche is a no name company so stay away?

Who do you recommend for RCA cables? Ill want some shielded ones so they dont cause interference with the remote on line going back to the h/u?

neomagus00 · February 2006

actually, scoche isn't bad, go with them if you like...

generally stick with stinger or streetwires for RCAs... and fyi, who cares about the REM wire, the point of shielding is to prevent noise from getting IN to the cables, not OUT of them...

deepinya · February 2006

I thought the remote line carries power to the AMP so you want shielded RCA cables since I will be running them on the same side of the car.

I think I just worded it wrong in my post.

exalted512 · February 2006

get everything you need from www.knukonceptz.com and call it a day.
-Cody

audiobliss · February 2006

^^ That's it. Great prices. Even better products. They have the fuses, distributor blocks, power/ground wire, and RCA's. You'll be set.

neomagus00 · February 2006

deepinya wrote:

I thought the remote line carries power to the AMP so you want shielded RCA cables since I will be running them on the same side of the car.

I think I just worded it wrong in my post.

nonono... the remote line simply carries a very small signal that tells the amp to turn itself on... it is the 'remote turn-on lead' to be exact... if the signal there gets messed up, it doesn't matter - as long as there's some sort of current running in the REM wire, the amp will be on...

the power cable carries power to the amp from the battery, and the ground cable allows it to flow back out and into the chassis of the car (where you allow the stock wiring to carry it back to the battery, completing the circuit)...

you want shielded RCAs because the automotive environment is horrifically noisy over a lot of the electromagnetic spectrum... noise is bad for quality sound... shielding removes noise... therefore, shielding is good for sound...

deepinya · February 2006

ok I see now

thanks neo.

neomagus00 · February 2006

any time

deepinya · February 2006

Ive decided to get (1)c400.4 and bi-amp the mmc6500. I will hold off on rears/sub for now just so I can at least hear this bi-amping craze! Only thing that sucks is cardomain says 5-7 days until the c400 is shipped!

So do I need a 4-channel RCA or 2-channel RCA for bi-amping? I was gonna go with the Klarity cable but the Krystal Kable from knuconceptz are pretty well shielded. no objections?

This DIY stuff is a lot of prep work.

Tell me when Im a pain in your ****. hehe

neomagus00 · February 2006

no, my **** is currently fine...

if your HU has 2 sets of preouts (front and rear) use a 4-channel RCA, and use both preouts... if you only have one preout available, use a 2-channel RCA, and a pair of splitters...

audiobliss · February 2006

Yeah, use a 4-channel RCA (or two 2-channel RCA's...shouldn't be a difference), but if your HU doesn't have three sets of preouts, then get another HU! A system as fine as you're building deserves a nicer HU than one that only has two sets of preouts.

EDIT - I just noticed that you already said in your first post that you already have an Eclipse 8445, so you should be golden. Eclipse HU's are great.

Glad you're willing to try the fronts first. Let us know when your stuff shows up and your doorstep! And don't hesitate to ask questions! Even if I don't know the answer, I can at least post that I don't know, thus giving me a +1 on my post count!

MacLeod · February 2006

We need a filter on here for bliss. Something that wont let the post thru if there is nothing of value in it.

Try Crutchfield as well. Theyre a fully authorized Polk retailer and may can ship the amp out faster.

Amp choosing and wiring help

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