Axiom vs Polk? (yes again)

reubenray

This is what I have narrowed my speaker search to.

1) Axiom - M22 for the fronts, QS4 for the surrounds and the VP100 center.
2) Polk - RTi6 for the fronts, FXi3 for the surrounds and the CSi3 center.

The Axiom setup is a few $100's more, but I like the M22's dual woofers. I will be powering the speakers with a Yamaha 5890 and will hopefully get a Velodyne sub a few months after I get everything else.

The SVS system keeps coming up, but cannot find out much info about them.

I need some non-partisian input please.

Thanks,

VR3

RTi6

The Axiom weighs 17-19 POUNDS. What I am getting at with stating that fact. The M22 is a nice size speaker, featuring dual woofers and a tweeter. Now, my midbasses in my speakers weigh 4 pounds each - thats 8 pounds, the tweeter weighs 2 pounds, thats 10 pounds. The crossover probally weighs a pound maybe... so thats 11 pounds already...

That leaves 8 pounds or 6 pounds for wood? They use very shotty construction, and Im willing to bet their drivers arnt worth a crap either. Cheap speakers are cheap speakers. I wouldnt waste my money, wouldnt be long until the vinyl chipped up and the drivers were rattling due to them being so cheaply made...

Joey V said it best... "I could hear them resonating (the enclosures) when I walked up to them" - indirect quote. Im sure Axiom sounds great, but I could not ignore the quality issues associated with them.

"I've had Axioms before (M22ti) and I brought it to my local dealers to A/B against several speakers including the LSi9 and the RTi6. What I found was a massacre. I couldnt believe how boxy the Axioms sounded, though everyone on the Axiom board claim that these guys are giant killers at the twice the price. You had to be there... I was very disappointed in the Axioms and I ended up selling them.

I went to the stores to validate the Axiom claim to fame - that their speakers are comparable to brick/mortar offerings at twice the price since there is no middle-man to jack up the Axiom speaker price.... yet, I found the Axioms to be no better than the speakers at the same price at brick/mortar stores.

Oh.... and pathetic build quality too. The cabinet resonates and you can audibly hear it if you go near it." - Joey V

*Seby*-Polk-

The POLK combo is far superior. Polk is far more clean than Axioms. No comparisson.

I prefer Infinity than Axioms too, BUT Axioms than JBL ...

Bye

reubenray

Thanks for the responses and good information. How important is it to have 2 woofers in the fronts? My current Sony set has 2, so it seems like I will be going down in sound quality. I really want the RTi8's, but cannot see paying $400 more for 2 woofers. Another factor is that my wife has ears like a hawk and she would hear anything that is not normal.

audiobliss

The number of woofers, tweeters, subs, ports, etc. means nada. Go listen to the speakers and let your ears guide you.

If you're replace Sony speakers, you can't go anywhere but up.

reubenray

My wife just shocked me and said I could get the RTi8 instead of the 6's. Now before I jump on this where is the best place to purchase these online. Also I have read conflicting reports about the Yamaha 5890 sounding bright with these speakers. Is this something I should be worried about?

*Seby*-Polk-

Try and decide by yourself. Listen carefully. I like the sound little bright, like Yamaha receivers. For me, works great with RTi.

Early B.

That's great. If you decide to go with Rti6's in the rear instead of Fxi3's, try buying them here: http://cgi.ebay.com/Polk-Audio-Rti-6-Bookshelf-Speakers-Cherry-Pair_W0QQitemZ5864362893QQcategoryZ14991QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

You may want to consider the 6's in the rear if you plan to listen to music in surround mode. The seller is not an authorized dealer, but their prices are hard to beat and they apparently have good service. They also have a Csi5 for the same price as the Rti6's.

Joey_V

I heard the RTi8 vs the M22.... just go for the 8. The M22 is congested by comparison. I really dont know why the 22s are considered neutral speakers because they sure dont sound like it. And dont even get me started comparing the Axioms to the Paradigms (their Canadian cousins who were part of that National Audio study - NRC). Very disappointed in Axiom sound and build... . That's why I went to Polks.

I said most of what I want to say in Sid's post up there... hehehe.

reubenray

Eventually I will change my system into a 7.1. At that time I was thinking of getting the RTi6's for the rears and put the FXi3's on the sides.
Will the audio not come out at all when playing music with the FXi3's?

Skynut

Go somewhere and listen.
Find a place to go listen.
Travel great miles to listen.
Don't buy without a listen.

reubenray

I may just go up to Fry's and make them hook something up for me to listen to.

Early B.

reubenray wrote:

Eventually I will change my system into a 7.1. At that time I was thinking of getting the RTi6's for the rears and put the FXi3's on the sides.
Will the audio not come out at all when playing music with the FXi3's?

It's a preference thing. Some people would rather hear music that is focused (Rti6) as opposed to diffused (Fxi3). Both options work well for HT. IMO, the choice is a minor consideration. Dipole/bipole speakers work very well for HT when you have the room size and setup to accomodate them. I have bipoles, but I don't have the room setup optimized to take full advantage of them because my seating position is on the back wall.

reubenray

OhOh - what is this dipole/bipole thing?

Joey_V

Bipole is when there are two soundfields projected from the speaker (into and out of the room for instance) with both drivers working in synchrony - IN phase.

Dipole is when there are two soundfields projected from the speaker (same as Bipole), but with the drivers working out of phase from one another. As one driver moves OUT, the other driver moves IN.

gregure

Ruben,

I agree whole-heartedly that the Polk system would be great. If you are worried about them sounding bright, mate them with a receiver that is not too bright. Yamaha would be bright. This is purely a music issue, as these speakers are great for home theater, and most receivers do theater pretty well, it's just music that is more challenging. This is a whole separate issue, one that involves the problem of limited current, to which any receiver under $1500-$2000 will be victim. For units under that price, I would recommend looking at Marantz. I'm really impressed with these units for their musical ability. They are far better than Denon for music, in my opinion, as well as Yamaha, Onkyo and Harmon Kardon. It's all opinion, but music sound quality is my primary concern, thus the big, expensive receiver I chose. If you can reach up to something like a Rotel or NAD receiver, that would be even better. The Outlaw receiver has gotten some nice reviews as well. Despite the lower rated wattage (65 wpc), those are realistic, and probably driven with a better transformer that would open up the sound. Best test-vocals. If the singer sounds clear, present and centered-depending on the recording-that's a good first step. If you notice no constriction or no sense that the amp is holding back when the singer's voice becomes louder, that's a really good sign.

reubenray

gregure wrote:

Ruben,

I agree whole-heartedly that the Polk system would be great. If you are worried about them sounding bright, mate them with a receiver that is not too bright. Yamaha would be bright. This is purely a music issue, as these speakers are great for home theater, and most receivers do theater pretty well, it's just music that is more challenging. This is a whole separate issue, one that involves the problem of limited current, to which any receiver under $1500-$2000 will be victim. For units under that price, I would recommend looking at Marantz. I'm really impressed with these units for their musical ability. They are far better than Denon for music, in my opinion, as well as Yamaha, Onkyo and Harmon Kardon. It's all opinion, but music sound quality is my primary concern, thus the big, expensive receiver I chose. If you can reach up to something like a Rotel or NAD receiver, that would be even better. The Outlaw receiver has gotten some nice reviews as well. Despite the lower rated wattage (65 wpc), those are realistic, and probably driven with a better transformer that would open up the sound. Best test-vocals. If the singer sounds clear, present and centered-depending on the recording-that's a good first step. If you notice no constriction or no sense that the amp is holding back when the singer's voice becomes louder, that's a really good sign.

If it is music that the "Bright" affects I probably will stay the Yamaha. We very seldom listen to music.
I went by Fry's again today and again I could not listen to any of the speakers I want. They recommended the Onkyo 703 as an equal comparison to the Yamaha 5890. They did have a RTi8 paired with a CS125 center and it sounded OK, so the CSI3 should sound a lot better. I asked them if they would ever have everything hooked up. The salesman said they would first have to tear the wall out to find the "basketball" size ball of wires.

Maybe Tweeters will have a setup to listen to.

aaronandchris

Listening is definitely the way to go. I have been comparing the Rti6 and M22s's for the last two weeks. In my listening environment with an Onkyo TXNR900 receiver they both sound great with different nuances. To my ears, the Rti6’s have lower bass and smooth highs, the M22’s have a little more mid punch with crisp highs. Now I need to decide which I like better… still listening.

Joey_V

aaronandchris wrote:

Listening is definitely the way to go. I have been comparing the Rti6 and M22s's for the last two weeks. In my listening environment with an Onkyo TXNR900 receiver they both sound great with different nuances. To my ears, the Rti6’s have lower bass and smooth highs, the M22’s have a little more mid punch with crisp highs. Now I need to decide which I like better… still listening.

Interested to find out which is your pick...

littleb

Since today is the last day to order from Axiom before the price increases, and since I have an all Axiom set up, I was considering ordering a pair of M60ti to replace my M22s in the front. My reason for doing this is that I've always run tower speakers before I got the M22s, and I've always felt that I wanted something more. If anyone has listened to the M60tis vs the Polk Audio RTI 8 or 10s and compared them, please give me a holler. Would these be a comparable alternative???

2+2

I have listened to M60s, RTI 10 and 12s although not in my home. Short of it is that I would take an RTi over the M60s any day for any purpose....music/HT....

audiobliss

littleb wrote:

If anyone has listened to the M60tis vs the Polk Audio RTI 8 or 10s and compared them, please give me a holler. Would these be a comparable alternative???

Not trying to be smart here, but have you not read this thread? Is this not basically the only thing that has been discussed here?

And no, nothing from Axiom would be comparable to the Polk RTi8 or RTi10.

reubenray

I ordered this setup last night. The receiver will be an Onkyo 703. The fronts will be RTi8's, the rears will be FXi3's and the center will be the CSi5.

Will let everyone know how it works once it is set up.

audiobliss

Awesome system! Set it up and enjoy!

littleb

audiobliss wrote:

Not trying to be smart here, but have you not read this thread? Is this not basically the only thing that has been discussed here?

And no, nothing from Axiom would be comparable to the Polk RTi8 or RTi10.

I've read this thread, twice. I was just looking for an unbiased opinion, here. I know that it will be hard to find at the Polk Audio or the Axiom forum. What I really don't understand is how a speaker like the Polk Audio RTI 10s could be much different than the Axiom Audio M60tis or a PSB T55 for that matter. Aren't we really talking apples and oranges, here. To those that prefer the Polk product to the Axiom one, could you explain what Polk will do for me that Axiom won't? I'm not trying to be smart or start any sort of argument. I'm simply asking questions with an open mind, so I can make the right purchase. I don't make these kind of purchases often, and I wouldn't want to make a $700 or a $900 error.

2+2

FWIW, I listened to the Polks and Axioms BEFORE I owned any Polks or had any biases toward either brand. I really had high hopes for Axioms in view of all the hype. Dude, take a close look at your 22s... Compare it to any RTis. You will find a large build quality difference. As to sound, the tweeters across the lines are going to be the same...which is what absolutely killed teh Axioms...talk about ear piercing.

Edit: Correction: I actually had a negative bias against Polks because in 1990 time frame, I auditioned Polks satellite 3pc systems, and in my opinion, they sucked.

Joey_V

I just dont like the Axiom mentality moreso than the speakers themselves. Everyone on that board thinks that Axioms are the ultimate buy in speakers and most often than not, Axiomites havent had much experience in speakers beyond the Axioms. Plus, add to that the hype of neutrality, the delusional "no middle man so you're getting $700 speakers at the pricemark of $400", the numerous reviews on-site.... and you have a raving community of Axiom idealists.

No offense, but atleast at Polk, we recognize when a brand is better than ours and we dont sugar coat it. You walk in here with a question on whether a Sonus Faber Cremona sounds better than the Polk RTi or LSi... we'll more often than not, say Heck yeah. Go to axiom and ask them that, they'll more often than not say - well, for the money I would go axiom, I mean they are neutral and that's all I care.

I might have not answered the M60 vs RTi8/10 question.... but I would say, if you like the Axiom sound, stick with it and upgrade to their M60 from your M22.

littleb

2+2 wrote:

FWIW, I listened to the Polks and Axioms BEFORE I owned any Polks or had any biases toward either brand. I really had high hopes for Axioms in view of all the hype. Dude, take a close look at your 22s... Compare it to any RTis. You will find a large build quality difference. As to sound, the tweeters across the lines are going to be the same...which is what absolutely killed teh Axioms...talk about ear piercing.

I would like to compare the RTI to the Axioms, but I would have to fuel up the old gas eating van and take a 300+ mile road trip, so I thought I would ask about these here, instead. Hopefully, I might have a chance to see Polk's in the future. I talked to a pretty sleezy dealer about 50 miles away from here today. I asked him to give me a price estimate over the phone and he refused, so he won't be seeing me any time soon. Driving across town and taking another look at the PSB image series from a trustworthy retailer might be another alternative.

2+2

Bud, take teh 50 mile trip, find the sales person who was a jerk, waste a bit of his time and then let him know that you are buying the speakers from another sales associate because he was a jerk (if you end up buying)...or if you dont end up buying, let him and his manager know that because of his attitude, you will be buying something else from somewhere else..

...now if you were trying to "negotiate" a price over the phone, well, then I am not surprised and I can't say I blame the guy for not wanting to go through the effort knowing most of the time, people are not even going to come in....

Joey_V

It's hard to negotiate over the phone... some of these guys have gotten nothing out of long phone conversations. That said, it's also hard on the customer if the dealer doesnt put out a phone price.

Littleb, whatever you do - as long as you trust your ears, you'll be happy.

littleb

Joey_V wrote:

It's hard to negotiate over the phone... some of these guys have gotten nothing out of long phone conversations. That said, it's also hard on the customer if the dealer doesnt put out a phone price.

Littleb, whatever you do - as long as you trust your ears, you'll be happy.

I've actually been in the place before. I looked around, and found nothing hooked up that I could listen to. They have a car audio listening room, but that's pretty much it. I called him to see if anything has changed. I'll consider a return trip, but they seem to be geared toward car audio, and have most of their home gear stuffed in a warehouse. You can't see it before you buy type of thing. I don't understand this way of doing business. You might as well order online and pay return shipping. Thanks for your comments, guys. I could actually learn to like it here.