SACD vs. CD Question?

Nelson57
Nelson57 Posts: 190
edited October 2008 in Music & Movies
I'm finding myself listen to music more and more in my home office system, mainly XM through Direct TV, and CD's. Having paid little attention to it the past, I am now a bit more curious about what Super Audio CD is all about.

My question: is there a major difference in sound quality between listening to a regular CD in say the PLIIx Music format, and listening to Super Audio CD?

My very limited understanding of SACD is that it is multi-channel, which sounds the same to me as PLIIx. What would be the difference?
Main theater: Paradigm Studio 100's v4 L/R, CC690 Center, ADP 590 x4 Surrounds. Dual Outlaw LFM-EX-1's, Yamaha Aventage RX-A1010 as Processor, Anthem PVA-7 Amp

Secondary System: Polk RTi 6 L/R, CSi3, Center, FXi3 x4 Surrounds, Def-Tech Supercube II, Pioneer Elite VSX-23 Receiver
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,735
    edited February 2006
    SACD is a hi-rez format and almost all SACD's these days are hybrid, which means they contain a 2 channel redbook (CD) layer, a 2 channel hi-rez layer and a multi-channel hi-rez layer. SACD is not just multi-channel, never was, never will be. PLIIx is not a hi-rez format.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited February 2006
    An SACD player will require that you connect the player to your receiver/preamp via analog cables. Toslink and Digital coax will not pass an SACD or DVD-A signal. There are a few manufactures that use a firewire/I-Link connection between their receiver/preamp and their CACD/DVD-A players.

    SACD and DVD-A are great formats and do infact sound better than a redbook version, at least in my opinion. Just remember that the level of your equipment will have a lot to do with the quality of sound you hear. Adding an SACD player to $200 bookshelf system (not implying that you are listening to one) isn't going to garner the same results as listening to a hi-rez disc through a more upscale system.
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited February 2006
    The Pioneer Elite 47Ai will do an absolute fine job with the high rez mix. SACD just cant help but be better than Redbook. There are over a hundred thousand more samples per second and millions more quatization levels to determine musical dynamics. The machines interpolaters just dont have to "guesstimate" as much, ok, its really advanced alogrythm stuff, but still its an estimation of where the levels and tones should be.

    Redbook, man that format is all but dead. You will have niche markets for vinyl and high rez then the MP3 crowd. I would not buy a CD machine that could not play SACD! OK, j/k, but really I could see Redbook fading from the scene.

    RT1
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  • Nelson57
    Nelson57 Posts: 190
    edited February 2006
    Thanks for your responses guys. I assume Redbook means your standard CDs. I'm going to go for it, and try to set this up, and experience the SACD sound. The home office system I have consists of:

    Speakers:
    RTi6 Front L/R, CSi3 Center, FXi3 Side L/R, RTi4 Rear L/R. Subs are Velodyne CHT-10 and Def-Tech Supercube III.

    Electronics:
    Pioneer VSX-1015 Receiver. Denon 2910, and Pioneer DV-578A.

    What kind of cables should I get to set up the Denon? Will any RCAs (of decent quality of course) do the trick or do I need something special?
    Main theater: Paradigm Studio 100's v4 L/R, CC690 Center, ADP 590 x4 Surrounds. Dual Outlaw LFM-EX-1's, Yamaha Aventage RX-A1010 as Processor, Anthem PVA-7 Amp

    Secondary System: Polk RTi 6 L/R, CSi3, Center, FXi3 x4 Surrounds, Def-Tech Supercube II, Pioneer Elite VSX-23 Receiver
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  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited February 2006
    I assume Redbook means your standard CDs.
    Correct.

    Any RCA/Audio cable will work.
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
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  • Nelson57
    Nelson57 Posts: 190
    edited February 2006
    Thanks Frank Z. To late for me to pick up some cables tonight, but I will get the cables, and purchase my first SACD tomorrow. I will browse the forum for some SACD suggestions.
    Main theater: Paradigm Studio 100's v4 L/R, CC690 Center, ADP 590 x4 Surrounds. Dual Outlaw LFM-EX-1's, Yamaha Aventage RX-A1010 as Processor, Anthem PVA-7 Amp

    Secondary System: Polk RTi 6 L/R, CSi3, Center, FXi3 x4 Surrounds, Def-Tech Supercube II, Pioneer Elite VSX-23 Receiver
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  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited February 2006
    Not sure what your preferences are, but here's a few suggested titles...
    Jazz
    Concord Jazz Super Sudio Sampler SACD-1032-6
    The Cannonball Aderly Quintet in San Fransisco RISA-1157-6
    The Dave Brubeck Quartet "Time out" CS-65122
    Yellow Jackets "Altered State" HUSA 9097
    John Coltrane "A Love Supreme" 314 589 596-2
    Buddy Rich w/ The Best band I ever Had AFZ 003


    Classic Rock
    Pink Floyd "The Dark Side of the Moon" CDP7243 6 5 82136 2
    The Allman Brothers Band "Live at the Fillmore East" 80000400-36

    Bluegrass
    Alison Krauss and Union Station Live 11661 0515-6

    Another great reference/Demo Disc
    Mark Levinson's Live Recordings at Red Rose Music RRM 01

    If you are interested in a few DVD-A titles...

    Eagles "Hotel California" 60509-9
    Steely Dan "Gaucho" 71021-51014-2-2
    Yes "Fragile" R9 78249
    Fleetwood Mac "Rumors" 9 48083-9



    Not a comprehensive list by any stretch, but you might really like some of these.

    Enjoy.
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
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  • Danny Tse
    Danny Tse Posts: 5,206
    edited February 2006
    No mention of just-announced Grammy winning surround sound album of the year??!!

    Dire Straits' "Brothers In Arms"....available on domestic DVD-A or the imported SACD
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,735
    edited February 2006
    Eff the Grammy's, but I'm glad to hear somebody involved in that farce has good taste.

    I was telling Troy earlier that I really cranked up the stereo this evenng for the first time since I moved to my new house. BIA on SACD was the first one I popped in, I hope the neighbors enjoyed it as much as I did. :D
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • *Seby*-Polk-
    *Seby*-Polk- Posts: 375
    edited February 2006
    I listen SACD with a Yamaha S-657 dvd player in Yamaha RX-V657 receiver with RTi and Monitor speakeres of POLK. It's incredible the difference. For me, is very superior, far clean and clear than Cd's. I tried classical music, jazz and rock. ALL AWESOME.
    (obviously, better in RTi speakers ;) ) Bye
    My current new system (step by step :D)

    A/V Receiver: YAMAHA RX-V657
    DVD Player: YAMAHA DVD-S657
    Main Towers: polkaudio® Monitor 50
    Wiring: NeoTecH KS1007 OFC High Definition Speaker Cable ( 2 x 2.64 mm² )
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  • Danny Tse
    Danny Tse Posts: 5,206
    edited February 2006
    F1nut wrote:
    but I'm glad to hear somebody involved in that farce has good taste.

    Back in the old days, BIA was THE demo CD to play when cranking up the stereo. Now, it's THE demo surround dis to crank when firing all 5.1 channels.
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  • crazy
    crazy Posts: 443
    edited February 2006
    Danny Tse wrote:
    No mention of just-announced Grammy winning surround sound album of the year??!!

    Dire Straits' "Brothers In Arms"....available on domestic DVD-A or the imported SACD

    Amazing!!! I have to get this album ASAP!

    And to think that Mark Knopfler did the surround sound mixing himself (with a little help!)
    Distant Dream - A New Beginning
    www.distantdream.com
    (Now also available on iTunes)
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  • Nelson57
    Nelson57 Posts: 190
    edited February 2006
    Got it all setup today, and Wow! The music really comes alive. Listened to Lady Smith Black Mambazo, an African accapella group, and the sound was totally awesome. I was initially strictly a movie guy, but now I will be enjoying music alot more. Now, time to start building the library!
    Main theater: Paradigm Studio 100's v4 L/R, CC690 Center, ADP 590 x4 Surrounds. Dual Outlaw LFM-EX-1's, Yamaha Aventage RX-A1010 as Processor, Anthem PVA-7 Amp

    Secondary System: Polk RTi 6 L/R, CSi3, Center, FXi3 x4 Surrounds, Def-Tech Supercube II, Pioneer Elite VSX-23 Receiver
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,735
    edited February 2006
    Nelson57 wrote:
    The music really comes alive.

    'Nuff said!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • mhw58
    mhw58 Posts: 359
    edited February 2006
    Danny Tse wrote:
    Back in the old days, BIA was THE demo CD to play when cranking up the stereo. Now, it's THE demo surround dis to crank when firing all 5.1 channels.

    BIA is fantastic in 5:1 but I'd fire up my SACD of Dark side of the moon
    to show off my 5:1 system first, then BIA or Beck's Sea Change. I love
    Sea Change in 5:1, incredible mix by Elliot Scheiner. Steely Dan's
    last two dvd audios are also incredible in surround.
    Mike
    Fronts: SDA1C's
    Rears: SDA2's
    Center:CS400i
    Sub: PSW505
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited February 2006
    So would you folks suggest one player (CD & SACD) or separate units.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited February 2006
    Get a separate cd player & a universal dvd player that handles all formats.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,735
    edited February 2006
    Michael,

    To the best of my knowledge, there are no stand alone SACD players. All SACD players will play Redbook CD's as well, while the universal units will play SACD, CD, DVD-A and some will do DVD-V also. Almost all of the high end companies offer dedicated SACD/CD players these days.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Nelson57
    Nelson57 Posts: 190
    edited February 2006
    Hey guys, I was shopping for SACD's at a Coconuts store in NJ today, and one of the reps told me that while they do have some in the store, SACDs aren't being made anymore, and are being replaced with something called Dual Disc.

    As one who is pretty much just discovering the joys of SACD, I found this a bit disappointing. Is this information correct, and has anyone else ever heard of Dual Disc?
    Main theater: Paradigm Studio 100's v4 L/R, CC690 Center, ADP 590 x4 Surrounds. Dual Outlaw LFM-EX-1's, Yamaha Aventage RX-A1010 as Processor, Anthem PVA-7 Amp

    Secondary System: Polk RTi 6 L/R, CSi3, Center, FXi3 x4 Surrounds, Def-Tech Supercube II, Pioneer Elite VSX-23 Receiver
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,735
    edited February 2006
    That's pure bullsh*t!!! Do the world a favor and go back and tell that putz he has no effing clue what's going on and to shut the hell up.

    Print this out as proof, http://www.highfidelityreview.com/news/sacd.asp
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • *Seby*-Polk-
    *Seby*-Polk- Posts: 375
    edited February 2006
    SACD it's great. For me, the SACD sound quality is a bit superior to DVD-Audio :)
    My current new system (step by step :D)

    A/V Receiver: YAMAHA RX-V657
    DVD Player: YAMAHA DVD-S657
    Main Towers: polkaudio® Monitor 50
    Wiring: NeoTecH KS1007 OFC High Definition Speaker Cable ( 2 x 2.64 mm² )
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,735
    edited February 2006
    Here's a list of online stores that carry a nice selection of SACD's.

    http://www.cduniverse.com/browsecat.asp?style=music&cat=2703&cart=308972325

    http://www.amusicdirect.com/products/category.asp?category=30

    http://www.elusivedisc.com/products.asp?dept=905

    http://store.acousticsounds.com/sacd.cfm

    http://www.audiofidelity.net/pc-sacd.html

    http://www.mymusic.com/advancedsearch2.asp?curr=0&

    And this site offers a good reference for what is out there including more sites to buy SACD's, especially hard to find ones.

    http://www.sa-cd.net/
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • *Seby*-Polk-
    *Seby*-Polk- Posts: 375
    edited February 2006
    F1nut wrote:
    Here's a list of online stores that carry a nice selection of SACD's.

    http://www.cduniverse.com/browsecat.asp?style=music&cat=2703&cart=308972325

    http://www.amusicdirect.com/products/category.asp?category=30

    http://www.elusivedisc.com/products.asp?dept=905

    http://store.acousticsounds.com/sacd.cfm

    http://www.audiofidelity.net/pc-sacd.html

    http://www.mymusic.com/advancedsearch2.asp?curr=0&

    And this site offers a good reference for what is out there including more sites to buy SACD's, especially hard to find ones.

    http://www.sa-cd.net/
    That info is great...BUT..Do you have the same info for Argentinian stores !!!!! :(

    I need know..but here...very hard... :( Bye !
    My current new system (step by step :D)

    A/V Receiver: YAMAHA RX-V657
    DVD Player: YAMAHA DVD-S657
    Main Towers: polkaudio® Monitor 50
    Wiring: NeoTecH KS1007 OFC High Definition Speaker Cable ( 2 x 2.64 mm² )
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  • Nelson57
    Nelson57 Posts: 190
    edited February 2006
    Thanks F1. It would make no sense to discontinue something of such high quality. I can easily see my collection of SACDs catching up to my movies in due time.

    I am finding that some disc utilize the full surround better than others, but the music stills sounds great non-the-less.

    My taste are diverse, so I'll be picking up a little something from all genres. Going to sit back now and take a listen to the TELARC SACD Sampler 1 disc. Got no idea whats on it, so I'm excited to see what it has to offer.
    Main theater: Paradigm Studio 100's v4 L/R, CC690 Center, ADP 590 x4 Surrounds. Dual Outlaw LFM-EX-1's, Yamaha Aventage RX-A1010 as Processor, Anthem PVA-7 Amp

    Secondary System: Polk RTi 6 L/R, CSi3, Center, FXi3 x4 Surrounds, Def-Tech Supercube II, Pioneer Elite VSX-23 Receiver
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,735
    edited February 2006
    Seby,

    Sorry, but I've never had a need to buy SACD's from an Argentinian store. I'm sure most if not all of the listed above would ship to you. I'd have to quess that shipping costs might be a tad expensive, but I've had SACD's and CD's shipped from England, Japan, Hong Kong and Germany. The shipping costs weren't that bad.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Danny Tse
    Danny Tse Posts: 5,206
    edited February 2006
    Nelson57 wrote:
    Hey guys, I was shopping for SACD's at a Coconuts store in NJ today, and one of the reps told me that while they do have some in the store, SACDs aren't being made anymore, and are being replaced with something called Dual Disc.

    As one who is pretty much just discovering the joys of SACD, I found this a bit disappointing. Is this information correct, and has anyone else ever heard of Dual Disc?

    Here's a month-by-month breakdown of new SACD releases at sa-cd.net. Sa-cd.net has the most comprehensive online listing of SACD releases worldwide, even though it has stopped listing, as of September 2005, SACD releases from SE Asia, which happens to be the most active SACD market in the world.

    DualDisc is a quasi-format that tries to let DVD-A compete with hybrid SACD. However, almost all hardware manufacturers have issued "advisories" against DualDisc being played in their players. On the other hand, within the last 6 months, previously DVD-A only supporters such as Harman Kardon, NAD and Cambridge Audio have all joined the SACD camp with their universal players. Not to mention Parasound releasing its first hi-rez universal player.

    SACD may experience its biggest push soon when the upcoming PlayStation 3 debuts, complete with SACD playback capability.
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  • Nelson57
    Nelson57 Posts: 190
    edited February 2006
    Thanks for the info Danny. I have bookmarked the sites you guys have provided.

    I listened to the TELARC SACD Sampler 1 last night and couldn't help thinking, If the music sounds this good with my current RTi setup, I wonder how it would sound with some LSi's; Ah!, but that means a new pre-pro and amp, or a new amp at the very least...
    I'm afraid this discovery of SACD could be costly. The bug is buzzing! I must control myself!!!
    Main theater: Paradigm Studio 100's v4 L/R, CC690 Center, ADP 590 x4 Surrounds. Dual Outlaw LFM-EX-1's, Yamaha Aventage RX-A1010 as Processor, Anthem PVA-7 Amp

    Secondary System: Polk RTi 6 L/R, CSi3, Center, FXi3 x4 Surrounds, Def-Tech Supercube II, Pioneer Elite VSX-23 Receiver
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  • Danny Tse
    Danny Tse Posts: 5,206
    edited February 2006
    Nelson57 wrote:
    Thanks for the info Danny. I have bookmarked the sites you guys have provided.

    No problem, Nelson57.

    Depending on the type of music you enjoy, this next piece of news can easily break the bank....Depeche Mode has announced the group will release 11 of its albums on SACD. This follows on the heel of the Moody Blues SACD announcement.

    Still waiting for Genesis and Rush....these groups have confirmed work are being done on multi-channel hi-rez remasters.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,735
    edited February 2006
    Danny,

    Any news on PF's Wish You Were Here, King Crimson or the rest of Steely Dan's catalog?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited February 2006
    F1nut wrote:
    Danny,

    Any news on the rest of Steely Dan's catalog?

    Last I heard the SD SACDs were DOA..... :(
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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