SDA SRS 2.3 Setup Question

JCL
JCL Posts: 148
edited February 2006 in Vintage Speakers
This was brought up in the thread Looking for SDA's? Updated info here! I thoughtit would be better to discuss it in this forum than in the for sale catagory.

This has been a point of confusion for me for a while and I would like to get it cleared up. The question is what is the correct setup for the SDA SRS 2.3 speakers not the 2.3 TL's. A sellers speakers show the right speakers with the larger speaker array to the outside (see photo). This photo is the one of the speaker labled as the labeled right speaker. The manual shows the dimensional array speakers are in the group of 4 speakers (see photo). I have these set up per the manual and plates on the rear of the speaker.

Is there a way by looking at the crossover to determine which speakers are actually the SDA speakers and whiich are the line source speakers? Also if anyone has a copy of the SDA SRS 2.3TL manual are the speakers labled the same as shown in the 2.3 manual as shown below? From everything I have read on this forum the SDA drivers should be on the outside of the speakers when setup. I will be switching the speakers tonight to see if there is an improvement in the soundstage, but would prefer not to have to move these several times since they are a pain to move around.
L600 (front), R200 (rear), R200 (rear surround), L400 (center), Sunfire HRS-10 (2)Marantz AV7706Sunfire Cinema Grand, Marantz M8077, Music Hall Stealth, Ortofon bronze cartridge, Parasound Zphono XRM, Sony UBP-X800
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  • JCL
    JCL Posts: 148
    edited February 2006
    I can't seam to attach the other photos for some reason
    L600 (front), R200 (rear), R200 (rear surround), L400 (center), Sunfire HRS-10 (2)Marantz AV7706Sunfire Cinema Grand, Marantz M8077, Music Hall Stealth, Ortofon bronze cartridge, Parasound Zphono XRM, Sony UBP-X800
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2006
    Pics may be too big...

    The Manual is wrong. Here's proof from the SCPolkfest... TroyD would not have his set up incorrectly.

    EDIT:
    Plus the "SDA Compendium" states for both the 2.3 and 2.3tl:
    "The two SDA bass-midrange drivers along the outside edge of the speaker... The ... four stereo drivers along the inside edge...."

    Want absolute proof? Have a 2.3 owner unplug his SDA IC...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • candyliquor35m
    candyliquor35m Posts: 2,267
    edited February 2006
    Tour,

    Those are 2.3tl's which might have changed. On my 2.3's, the column of 4 midrange drivers are on the outside.
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  • JCL
    JCL Posts: 148
    edited February 2006
    Good idea I will unplug the cabe before I move them.
    L600 (front), R200 (rear), R200 (rear surround), L400 (center), Sunfire HRS-10 (2)Marantz AV7706Sunfire Cinema Grand, Marantz M8077, Music Hall Stealth, Ortofon bronze cartridge, Parasound Zphono XRM, Sony UBP-X800
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2006
    Well, if I am wrong, at least I have good company...

    Awaiting test results...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited February 2006
    i too would say that the SDA drivers belong on the outside edge. that gives your the openness and the surround sound effect. in later models like the 2.3TL, and others... they used fewer SDA drivers.. Just like in the CRS+, only one tweeter was used in those.. they realized you don't need as many SDA tweeters.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2006
    db,
    Question here is whether the SDA and Stereo MW's are mixed on the same side of the cabinet as shown in Post #1's attachment.

    Upon further review... No way the manual is right as shown. The FR's overlap too much and would muttle the SDA effect...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,649
    edited February 2006
    This info is from Polk Audio's schematic drawings which I take as the truth.

    SDA SRS 2.3:

    The two drivers by themselves are the STEREO drivers. The group of four drivers contains two DIMENSIONAL drivers (in the middle) and two SUB BASS drivers (top and bottom). This driver arrangement is totally different than any other SDA speaker.

    SDA SRS 2.3TL:

    The two drivers by themselves are the DIMENSIONAL drivers. The group of four are all STEREO drivers.

    The 2.3 and 2.3TL speakers are entirely different from each other and the set up is the complete opposite.

    The sellers speakers on eBay are two right channels.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • candyliquor35m
    candyliquor35m Posts: 2,267
    edited February 2006
    F1,

    that's what my manual says too
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  • JCL
    JCL Posts: 148
    edited February 2006
    Well I disonnected the cable and the majority of sound is coming from the 2 seperate drivers. So that would make the 2 in the array of 4 the SDA components.

    Now another question. There is still sound coming from the 2 sda drivers even with the cable disconnected. So I pulled a driver to be sure it was not an effect of being coupled to the cabinet. The speakers are still producing some bass, but not like when the cable is connected. Anyone ever check this out before with the SDA's in their speakers? I assume this is present all of the time due to crossover design of the older 2.3 model. This model is the one with the blade pin interconnect that only uses one wire so disconnecting the speaker wires and only having the interconnect will produce no noise at all from that speaker.

    I have done all of the diagnostic testing that Ken from Polk CS sent me and everything checked out measurement and sound wise. All resistance measurements and sound checks were OK.
    L600 (front), R200 (rear), R200 (rear surround), L400 (center), Sunfire HRS-10 (2)Marantz AV7706Sunfire Cinema Grand, Marantz M8077, Music Hall Stealth, Ortofon bronze cartridge, Parasound Zphono XRM, Sony UBP-X800
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,649
    edited February 2006
    JCL, see my post above. Your 2.3's are working exactly as designed including the reduced sound from the SDA drivers when the IC is disconnected.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited February 2006
    F1nut wrote:
    This info is from Polk Audio's schematic drawings which I take as the truth.

    SDA SRS 2.3:

    The two drivers by themselves are the STEREO drivers. The group of four drivers contains two DIMENSIONAL drivers (in the middle) and two SUB BASS drivers (top and bottom). This driver arrangement is totally different than any other SDA speaker.

    SDA SRS 2.3TL:

    The two drivers by themselves are the DIMENSIONAL drivers. The group of four are all STEREO drivers.

    The 2.3 and 2.3TL speakers are entirely different from each other and the set up is the complete opposite.

    The sellers speakers on eBay are two right channels.
    Thanks Jesse, I thought that they were the right side also,but after reading the numerous posts,I was beginning to get confused(which at times,is not difficult) :)
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • JCL
    JCL Posts: 148
    edited February 2006
    Thanks for the help everyone! Found out some interesting things today about 2.3's and 2.3 tl's. One other thing does anyone remember someone on ebay trying to sell two right speakers together before? I think someone was within the last year and was wondering of these were the same missmatched pair that I remember seeing.
    L600 (front), R200 (rear), R200 (rear surround), L400 (center), Sunfire HRS-10 (2)Marantz AV7706Sunfire Cinema Grand, Marantz M8077, Music Hall Stealth, Ortofon bronze cartridge, Parasound Zphono XRM, Sony UBP-X800
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited February 2006
    JCL wrote:
    Thanks for the help everyone! Found out some interesting things today about 2.3's and 2.3 tl's. One other thing does anyone remember someone on ebay trying to sell two right speakers together before? I think someone was within the last year and was wondering of these were the same missmatched pair that I remember seeing.


    Yep, but I cannot remember which model/side, I wan :confused: t to say,2.3's,,left side
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2006
    A guy in Texas was selling two same channel 1.2tl's a while ago.

    As for the 2.3's having mixed MW's, all I can say is throw me in a dress and call me Sally... Learned something new today...

    EDIT: I know something else now as well... I could never listen to naked 2.3's... would eff with my mind too much (and it can't take much more effing).
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited February 2006
    Tour2ma wrote:
    A guy in Texas was selling two same channel 1.2tl's a while ago.

    As for the 2.3's having mixed MW's, all I can say is throw me in a dress and call me Sally... Learned something new today...

    EDIT: I know something else now as well... I could never listen to naked 2.3's... would eff with my mind too much (and it can't take much more effing).


    I feel your pain :D
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • BobMcG
    BobMcG Posts: 1,585
    edited February 2006
    F1nut wrote:
    This info is from Polk Audio's schematic drawings which I take as the truth.

    SDA SRS 2.3:

    The two drivers by themselves are the STEREO drivers. The group of four drivers contains two DIMENSIONAL drivers (in the middle) and two SUB BASS drivers (top and bottom). This driver arrangement is totally different than any other SDA speaker.

    SDA SRS 2.3TL:

    The two drivers by themselves are the DIMENSIONAL drivers. The group of four are all STEREO drivers.

    The 2.3 and 2.3TL speakers are entirely different from each other and the set up is the complete opposite.

    The sellers speakers on eBay are two right channels.

    Just noticed this thread and Jes has saved me a lot of typing. (Once again) I have the 2.3s whereas my brother has the 2.3tls. Naked, they look just the opposite of each other when setup properly. My fours are outer-edge while his are inner-edge.

    BTW: SDA drivers are always outer-edge.
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  • BobMcG
    BobMcG Posts: 1,585
    edited February 2006
    In the thumbnail in JCLs first post, you are looking at a left channel 1.2 and a right channel 2.3.

    If the right channel speaker were a 2.3TL you would see the row of 4 mids on left side of the cabinet rather than the right. The outer row of drivers are always the dimensional drivers though. That doesn't change.
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2006
    F1nut wrote:
    This info is from Polk Audio's schematic drawings which I take as the truth.
    Now that I'm looking as well, I see the same thing.

    Jesse, is the 2.3 schematic showing that the 6513 "sub-bass" drivers are receiving the SDA feed? I know that at low enough freq's, the source doesn't matter, but seems like an odd approach.
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • BobMcG
    BobMcG Posts: 1,585
    edited February 2006
    F1nut wrote:
    SDA SRS 2.3:The two drivers by themselves are the STEREO drivers. The group of four drivers contains two DIMENSIONAL drivers (in the middle) and two SUB BASS drivers (top and bottom). This driver arrangement is totally different than any other SDA speaker.


    Man am I slipping. This is correct. I completely forgot this. :o
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  • loh_kg
    loh_kg Posts: 13
    edited February 2006
    My 2.3tl 4 midrange drivers are on the inside,if I disconnected the interconnect cable and the sound is ONLY coming from the 4 midrange drivers on the inside.
    http://sg.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/loh_kg/detail?.dir=e311&.dnm=39c8.jpg&.src=ph
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  • BobMcG
    BobMcG Posts: 1,585
    edited February 2006
    loh_kg wrote:
    My 2.3tl 4 midrange drivers are on the inside,if I disconnected the interconnect cable and the sound is ONLY coming from the 4 midrange drivers on the inside.
    http://sg.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/loh_kg/detail?.dir=e311&.dnm=39c8.jpg&.src=ph

    Right, as the dimensional drivers are always on the outside edges. With the 2.3s (Not 2.3TL) being the exception :)

    To add: It's the two "loaded drivers" (top/bottom) on the 2.3s that are stereo drivers on the outer edges of this model.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,649
    edited February 2006
    Tour2ma wrote:

    Jesse, is the 2.3 schematic showing that the 6513 "sub-bass" drivers are receiving the SDA feed? I know that at low enough freq's, the source doesn't matter, but seems like an odd approach.

    Bruce,

    No, the two 6513 drivers are not dimensional as Bob correctly stated, "It's the two "loaded drivers" (top/bottom) on the 2.3s that are stereo drivers on the outer edges of this model."
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • JCL
    JCL Posts: 148
    edited February 2006
    Just a thought on the ones on Ebay. Couldn't you use a router to make new location for 2 of the speakers, plug the old holes, and move the components to the proper position and then you would have a lefthanded version? I believe the crossover design is the same for both left and right speakers in the SDA design so repositioning the drivers should be all that is required. Now the starting bid price is too high for all that work but if the seller cut the price in 1/2 I would think that would be a pretty fair deal after modification.
    L600 (front), R200 (rear), R200 (rear surround), L400 (center), Sunfire HRS-10 (2)Marantz AV7706Sunfire Cinema Grand, Marantz M8077, Music Hall Stealth, Ortofon bronze cartridge, Parasound Zphono XRM, Sony UBP-X800
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2006
    Could you? Yes... but that's a lot of trouble... Maybe disassemble a cabinet and flip it?
    JCL wrote:
    Well I disonnected the cable and the majority of sound is coming from the 2 seperate drivers. So that would make the 2 in the array of 4 the SDA components.

    Now another question. There is still sound coming from the 2 sda drivers even with the cable disconnected. So I pulled a driver to be sure it was not an effect of being coupled to the cabinet. The speakers are still producing some bass, but not like when the cable is connected.
    Probably an artifact of the common ground, i.e. the "disconnected SDA drivers are still seeing some (1/2?) of the voltage potential. But I am not 100% clear on where you are saying the sub-bass (hockey puck) drivers reside in the scheme of things... stereo or dimensional duty?

    Jesse...
    Trusting you, but trying to verify.... ;)

    Where the sub-bass get their signal cannot be determined from the schematic in the compendium (Drawing Number P0162003 Rev: 0) that I can see. In the 2.3's the sub-bass white wire terminates in the dimensional ground, but it's tied to the stereo negative, so can't tell from it. Not enough detail at the drivers. Are you looking at a different schematic?

    Still seems to me that he sub-bass location (and mere existance) complicates things tremendously.
    BobMcG wrote:
    ... the dimensional drivers are always on the outside edges. With the 2.3s (Not 2.3TL) being the exception :)
    I'm pretty sure that's not what you meant to say, Bob.

    The 2.3's Dimensional Drivers are to the outside. Their exception is that the 2.3 is the only SDA model where there are more drivers to the outside, thanks to the sub-bass arrangement. In all other SDA models the stereo drivers are kept together and thus the inside drivers equal or exceed the number of outside drivers.

    I am starting to think that Polk did this on purpose and Matt is reading this and laughing his **** off...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • JCL
    JCL Posts: 148
    edited February 2006
    Tour2ma wrote:
    Probably an artifact of the common ground, i.e. the "disconnected SDA drivers are still seeing some (1/2?) of the voltage potential. But I am not 100% clear on where you are saying the sub-bass (hockey puck) drivers reside in the scheme of things... stereo or dimensional duty?

    I am starting to think that Polk did this on purpose and Matt is reading this and laughing his **** off...

    I believe that the sub-bass drivers are working off the stereo signal. Without seeing a schematic its hard to tell since they only handle the lower frequency. How do I locate a copy of the wiring schematics for the original 2.3's? I have read about a compendium but can not find a link to it. Is it available online?
    L600 (front), R200 (rear), R200 (rear surround), L400 (center), Sunfire HRS-10 (2)Marantz AV7706Sunfire Cinema Grand, Marantz M8077, Music Hall Stealth, Ortofon bronze cartridge, Parasound Zphono XRM, Sony UBP-X800
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  • BobMcG
    BobMcG Posts: 1,585
    edited February 2006
    BobMcG wrote:
    Right, as the dimensional drivers are always on the outside edges. With the 2.3s (Not 2.3TL) being the exception :)

    To add: It's the two "loaded drivers" (top/bottom) on the 2.3s that are stereo drivers on the outer edges of this model.

    What this means is that in general the dimensional drivers are always the outside edge drivers, with the exception of the original 2.3. Jes is right in stating that there are dimensionals and stereo drivers sharing the outside edges of the 2.3s. Its the top and bottom drivers on the "dimensional" side that are stereo drivers.


    (Not the very first issues of the original 2.3 but soon after they came out Polk changed the top and bottom drivers on the outer edges to "loaded drivers", the ones with the donuts on them. This was to control the bass.)
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  • BobMcG
    BobMcG Posts: 1,585
    edited February 2006
    JCL wrote:
    Just a thought on the ones on Ebay. Couldn't you use a router to make new location for 2 of the speakers, plug the old holes, and move the components to the proper position and then you would have a lefthanded version? I believe the crossover design is the same for both left and right speakers in the SDA design so repositioning the drivers should be all that is required. Now the starting bid price is too high for all that work but if the seller cut the price in 1/2 I would think that would be a pretty fair deal after modification.

    Nope. That'd be like tring to make SRSs into 1.2s.

    Not only are the cabinets different but so are the crossovers and tweeters. To Add: Not to mention the mids aren't all the same either.
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2006
    Bob,
    Just the way I am reading the first line of your self-quoted post. Taken alone, it means something different to me. But it would not be the first time I have had a different "take" on something... I'm used to it.. :)

    JCL,
    Sounds like the Sub-bass are indeed getting the stereo feed. Would you mind doing one more check for confirmation?
    With the SDA IC in place, check the left speaker with either the balance all the way to the right channel or the left speaker's speaker wire disconnected.
    Should remove the remaining trace of doubt I have...

    Yes, i are an engineer... or at least i were one... :p

    As to your questions... find and PM Club member DarqueKnight, AKA "Raife". He is the author, compiler and sole purveyor of "The SDA Compendium". Not free, but worth owning...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • BobMcG
    BobMcG Posts: 1,585
    edited February 2006
    Here's my "opinion" of the 2.3/2.3TL situation. I do have the 2.3s so I'm quite familar with them. Love them! My brother has the 2.3TLs and so I'm familiar with them too. I like them. I have never had the urge nor seen a need or reason in the past nor will I feel the need in the future to waste my time, money and effort in replacing my 2.3s with the 2.3TLs. Not gonna be done!

    Once again IMHO, anyone thinking they're getting the short end of the stick by getting 2.3s rather than the TL version is just kidding themselves. (My guess is you're goona replace the tweeters in either one.)
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