81 Points

heiney9 · January 2006

Demiurge wrote:

A lot of these players are a lot talented than the players of old, most of them are also a bunch of thugs. The fact that Kobe Bryant and a lot of others in the league are this way doesn't take away from the fact that they have some very high raw talent.

The NBA might suck, but what he did is amazing, thug or not. Same goes for the NFL, lots of amazing players and lots of self absorbed thugs. Keeps some people from watching these sports, it's a turn-off.

I didn't come here saying what a great person Kobe was, I said what he did was amazing and he's an amazing basketball player.

As far as the MJ comparison others made, I didn't make it. Since it was brought up I will say for certain that Kobe is up there in that tier of player, but I still believe Michael Jordan was the best player the NBA has ever seen and still currently is. So please don't let your fanfare for a player take away from the achievements of a aquitted rapist. MJ wasn't exactly the family man himself, living in Milwaukee, and you in Illinois...I'm sure you've possibly witnessed some of the Jordan adultry that went on. Think old Wilt wasn't getting his digit soaked too?

Wasn't my intention to take away from a great sports feat. Kobe is to be commended for scoring 81 points. I'll stand by all my other statements. MJ was no saint, I know that! No one really is. He had hsi faults with adultry, gambling, intense competetiveness. I just don't think much of the Nba these days apart from a few players and in my mind Kobe will never quite reach the top eschelon of the great players perhaps because of what the Nba has become to represent.

It is fair to say that because we (Demiurge and I) lived so close to the "action" so to speak we got more exposure to the good and the bad pertaining to MJ. But, MJ led every sports program the whole time he was in the Nba....can't say that for Kobe or any other player for that matter. Anyways I get what you are saying and I really think we are on the same ground.

The 81 points will go down in Nba history as Kobe will have a spot, perhaps a notch below some of the greatest players of the game of basketball.

Peace Out

H9

Demiurge · January 2006

I can rest on that. I think Kobe has a long way to go still, and he's channeling himself better than most thought he would.

joe6pak · January 2006

Well you gotta admit Kobe really does know how to stuff it in the hole. Faster and harder, over and over again! :eek:

swerve · January 2006

joe6pak wrote:

Well you gotta admit Kobe really does know how to stuff it in the hole. Faster and harder, over and over again! :eek:

how original...

originality points go to you my friend.

brettw22 · January 2006

What Kobe needs to do is go play on a street league of 1 on 1 or something smaller than the NBA. I don't care what his variable talent level is......he's not a team player, and you can bet that most of the time he's on the court he's going to take the shot. That leave at least 2 or 3 other guys wide open that he repeatedly chooses to ignore and instead, throw countless last second bricks up because he's too arrogant to think that someone else has a better shot.

Is he good?......sure. Does he deserve notoriety?.....maybe. As much as he gets?......not IMO.

He'll never be what MJ was, and he's got too much attitude to be anything in the same league as the Bird, Johnson, and Jordans. The Lakers have given up an awful lot just to appease a costly liability just to keep him there. Surely someone in the upper offices realizes that Kobe (on his own) = no championship.....

Demiurge · January 2006

Michael Jordan on his own = No Championship

He always had a strong supporting cast.

Michael Jordan was always known as a ball hog. I'd just like some consistency so we're not putting Jordan on some pedestal he doesn't deserve to be on. Team player? That's just laughable.

shack · January 2006

Demiurge wrote:

Team player? That's just laughable.

Jordan, along with Bird, Johnson, Russell, etc... made everybody around them better. They turned good players into great players and journeyman, role players into champions. Anyone who followed the teams these guys were on KNOW the supporting players, because their games were elevated to championship levels. I never hear about another current day Laker player because it seems it is all about Kobe.

It's one thing to be a great player, it's another thing to be a great team leader as well as a great player. Jordan, Bird, Johnson, Russell, etc... fit the bill.

heiney9 · January 2006

Anyplayer on his own = No championship.

Jordan wasn't a perfect team mate. But the difference is in the results at the end of his career. He had a great supporting cast who many times defered to him. I do tend to put MJ on a pedestal because he deserves it. But I also realize his faults and short comings.....still he's one of if not the greatest player the league has ever seen. It remains to be seen if Kobe deserves the same pedestal treatment...somehow I doubt it. I'd prefer to admire the talents of someone like Tim Duncan of the current players. He's many times different than MJ but is still a remarkable player. Sort of like the Pete Sampras of basketball.

H9

Taurus574 · January 2006

NBA History: MVP Award Winners

1955-56 - Bob Pettit, St. Louis
1956-57 - Bob Cousy, Boston
1957-58 - Bill Russell, Boston
1958-59 - Bob Pettit, St. Louis
1959-60 - Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia
1960-61 - Bill Russell, Boston
1961-62 - Bill Russell, Boston
1962-63 - Bill Russell, Boston
1963-64 - Oscar Robertson, Cincinnati
1964-65 - Bill Russell, Boston
1965-66 - Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia
1966-67 - Wilt Chamberlain, Phildadelphia
1967-68 - Wilt Chamberlain, Philadelphia
1968-69 - Wes Unseld, Baltimore
1969-70 - Willis Reed, New York
1970-71 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee
1971-72 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee
1972-73 - Dave Cowens, Boston
1973-74 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Milwaukee
1974-75 - Bob McAdoo, Buffalo
1975-76 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Los Angeles
1976-77 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Los Angeles
1977-78 - Bill Walton, Portland
1978-79 - Moses Malone, Houston
1979-80 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Los Angeles
1980-81 - Julius Erving, Philadelphia
1981-82 - Moses Malone, Houston
1982-83 - Moses Malone, Philadelphia
1983-84 - Larry Bird, Boston
1984-85 - Larry Bird, Boston
1985-86 - Larry Bird, Boston
1986-87 - Magic Johnson, Los Angeles Lakers
1987-88 - Michael Jordan, Chicago
1988-89 - Magic Johnson, Los Angeles Lakers
1989-90 - Magic Johnson, Los Angeles Lakers
1990-91 - Michael Jordan, Chicago
1991-92 - Michael Jordan, Chicago
1992-93 - Charles Barkley, Phoenix
1993-94 - Hakeem Olajuwon, Houston
1994-95 - David Robinson, San Antonio
1995-96 - Michael Jordan, Chicago
1996-97 - Karl Malone, Utah
1997-98 - Michael Jordan, Chicago
1998-99 - Karl Malone, Utah
1999-00 - Shaquille O'Neal, Los Angeles Lakers
2000-01 - Allen Iverson, Philadelphia
2001-02 - Tim Duncan, San Antonio
2002-03 - Tim Duncan, San Antonio
2003-04 - Kevin Garnett, Minnesota

Kobe as one of the best?? He can't even make the MVP list.

But 81 points is pretty impressive especially nowadays.

TroyD · January 2006

Kobe is an **** clown

BDT

cam5860 · January 2006

I really don't see anything great about kobe's 81 points. First off he's a selfish player. He's is the biggest ballhog I believe ive ever seen. I mean hell if you shot the ball 50 times in a game there's a good chance you would score 80 points too.

He is a MJ wanta be which he will never be. MJ averaged 37 points a game just in his third season in the NBA. And had a **** of scoring titles. One game don't make you what you are a season does and kobe has yet to win a scoring title. Kobe has a lot to prove before he will be considered one of the greatest.

Demiurge · January 2006

Taurus574 wrote:

NBA History: MVP Award Winners

Kobe as one of the best?? He can't even make the MVP list.

But 81 points is pretty impressive especially nowadays.

Maybe he should abandon his kids and spend the nights bar hopping, would he make your list then?

shack · January 2006

Demiurge wrote:

Maybe he should abandon his kids and spend the nights bar hopping, would he make your list then?

Or maybe he could have "consensual" rough sex with hotel employees after spending the night bar hopping....OOPs...sorry...he's already done that and he still doesn't make my list either.

Troy hit the nail squarely on the head!

Demiurge · February 2006

Had to post this because it's an entire article about Michael Jordan talking about the very 81 points Kobe scored, and he says some glowing things about him, but I suppose it's just Jordan being modest....

Jordan shares thoughts on big scoring nights

Associated Press
Posted: 3 hours ago

NEW YORK (AP) - When it comes to scoring points, Michael Jordan is an expert.

So he couldn't help but delight in Kobe Bryant putting up 81 and a New York high schooler going wild for 113.
Photo Gallery...
NBA hot shots

Still, Jordan insisted things would have been a bit different if he'd been guarding Bryant.

"If I was on the other side, there's no way I would have been in at the end of that game without six fouls," Jordan said Tuesday. "I don't know if I could have given up 81 points and not fouled out of the game."

Bryant's total in a come-from-behind victory over Toronto last month was the second-highest in NBA history.

Epiphanny Prince set a national girls' record last week in a game that was a rout from the start. Some complained her performance in such a one-sided contest was an example of poor sportsmanship.

"I can't fault the young lady for scoring 113 points when she goes out each and every minute to play the game hard," Jordan said. "If you're going to fault anybody, fault the coach for not taking her out of the game."

The former Chicago Bulls star was in town to announce the players for his high school showcase, the Jordan All-American Classic, set for April 22 at Madison Square Garden.

Jordan was so impressed by Prince - one of the top prep players in the nation - he's contemplating adding a girls' event next year.

"I think that she's going to innovate this game," he said. "I think we should give women an opportunity to be recognized."

Jordan, whose NBA career-high was 69, couldn't remember a specific time when people got on him about scoring too much. But he knows there were probably many occasions like that.

"I imagine you guys were mad at me a lot in New York," Jordan joked, in a lobby adjacent to the Garden. "People got mad at me for playing hard every minute I was on the basketball court and it so happened that I scored a lot of points on their team."

Bryant has often said the he fashions his game after the 10-time NBA scoring leader. Jordan said he can see some similarities.

"You see him playing with any of the elite guys in the league ... he's going to guard them defensively and he will beg for them to guard him on the other end. That's my approach. I would do the same thing."

He stopped himself before declaring the Los Angeles Lakers star the top player in the league, but came close.

"If I had to pick the best player in the game, he certainly is up there right now," Jordan said. "It seems as though he's got the edge over anybody in that position, if not in the league right now."

Back in the city where he was born, Jordan said he wouldn't give an opinion on why the Knicks are struggling this season because "someone would take my opinion and use it as the Bible."

But then he gave one anyway.

"Everybody goes through up and down times in the season," Jordan said. "They haven't been able to find the right mix."

Jordan would like to see the NBA tinker with its new rule on when players can be drafted. Now, they have to wait one year after high school - he wants it to be two, so they get past their teens.

"I think from an educational and maturity standpoint it should have been at least 20," he said. "That way they get at least two years of college. Colleges get the chance to teach and educate them about the game of basketball and life and it trickles down."

"There's no way that an 18-year-old kid is going to be mature enough to handle some of the business things that they have to deal with on a professional level," he said. "Sure you have your obvious examples of a LeBron (James) and Carmelo (Anthony). But for every one of those, you can think of four or five who missed the boat and made the wrong decision and now they can't find their way," he said.

zombie boy 2000 · February 2006

let's face it -- this was Jordan's biggest nightmare come true
Chamberlain's record has always boasted a "not quite real" quality, with the absence of any recorded documentation
this "absence" in effect, further validated Jordan's already mythic status by providing a dilineation of sorts between what was possible "then" as opposed to what qualifies as a tremendous accomplishment "now"
in other words, let's see Chamberlain try that in today's environment against today's competition -- this was more than likely what he held onto, being the fierce competitior he is
Bryant just undermined him in an epic way
what's ironic about it is the fact that this is probably more in his mind than in the view of the public...
and furthermore, Bryant is an assclown

heiney9 · February 2006

zombie boy 2000 wrote:

let's face it -- this was Jordan's biggest nightmare come true
Chamberlain's record has always boasted a "not quite real" quality, with the absence of any recorded documentation
this "absence" in effect, further validated Jordan's already mythic status by providing a dilineation of sorts between what was possible "then" as opposed to what qualifies as a tremendous accomplishment "now"
in other words, let's see Chamberlain try that in today's environment against today's competition -- this was more than likely what he held onto, being the fierce competitior he is
Bryant just undermined him in an epic way
what's ironic about it is the fact that this is probably more in his mind than in the view of the public...
and furthermore, Bryant is an assclown

Jordan proved everything he had to prove. History will determine if he's the greatest of all time, he's already the greatest of his era (Jordan). I doubt it was on Jordan's mind at all until the press asked him about his thoughts. One 81 point game doesn't make a legacy or give any legitimacy. What the NBA needs is someone like a Tiger Woods to just come in and dominate (like Jordan did in the NBA). Tiger is displacing Jack Nicholas record wise. Does that mean Jack is now not considered one of, if not the greatest golfer of all time? No....because Jack has his place in history. If Kobe were as consistent and dominating as Tiger, he'd get a lot more acceptance. Tiger is at another level and deserves everything he gets. Kobe hasn't reached that level yet and until he does he gets no recognition from me in being in the same league as a Jordan, Bird, Magic, Duncan, etc...

H9

zombie boy 2000 · February 2006

i agree and i believe the public by and large agrees as well..
what's up for debate is whether or not the same Jordan who (arguably) could not retire gracefully due to his competitive nature, would agree...
what made Jordan the best of his era (or probably of any era) was precisely this mind-set
just when we thought he couldn't get better by a degree, he would get better exponentially
81 points by Bryant might have a way of burrowing itself into his psyche, though of course, it shouldn't

Demiurge · February 2006

The point is if anyone is key to comment on Bryant's skill it's someone who was the greatest player in the history of the league. He's all but called Kobe the best player in the league right now. Just because he's a jaggoff of a human being off the court doesn't take away from this accomplishments, just how much he deserves credit and attention for it.

I just thought it was funny when the comparisons to Jordan were made and then Jordan himself comes out with this glowing commentary about Kobe's basketball skills and where he sits in his opinion.

RuSsMaN · February 2006

I blame the refs. Worst officiating ever!

Demiurge · February 2006

Me too.

deepinya · February 2006

The fact that you guys mention Kobes name in the same breath as MJ is LAUGHABLE. How quickly people forget about how GREAT Jordan was.

He won with WHOEVER was around him...he made everyone play better than they could on their own. Examples: Luc Longley, Pippen, Ho Grant, BJ Armstrong (its late, I missed a few names). How well did these players do without Jordan or once they left Chicago?

LA was all about shaq-fu...how well has Kobe and the Lakers done without him?

Mark it down, Kobe will NEVER be as great as MJ....not even close.

heiney9 · February 2006

Demiurge wrote:

The point is if anyone is key to comment on Bryant's skill it's someone who was the greatest player in the history of the league. He's all but called Kobe the best player in the league right now. Just because he's a jaggoff of a human being off the court doesn't take away from this accomplishments, just how much he deserves credit and attention for it.

I just thought it was funny when the comparisons to Jordan were made and then Jordan himself comes out with this glowing commentary about Kobe's basketball skills and where he sits in his opinion.

What do you expect Jordan to say? I'm sure his comments have some truth to them, but come on, is Jordan going to say anything overtly negative? Read between the lines. I'll use this example again....have you heard Jack Nicholas talk about Tiger Woods? Compare that to the way Jordan (recently) talked about Kobe, quite a difference if you ask me. Actually it's not really fair to comment on 1 single sentence in 1 interview. So really, neither of us has a clue what Jordan thinks based on that. I'd have to go back and re-read every article over the years. So I guess I'm done with this part of the discussion.

Kobe is an excellent player, an asset to the NBA (when he's not out raping young women

) and certainly will have a place in history. Will he reach Jordan, Bird, Magic status probably not. Time will tell.

H9

zombie boy 2000 · February 2006

"If I had to pick the best player in the game, he certainly is up there right now," Jordan said.

H9 -- you're dead on with your point
read between the lines on this one...

Demiurge · February 2006

Well, gotta say there's no way to have any discourse with someone who is going to take someones words and say they didn't mean what they said.

I've never known Michael Jordan to be a shill and to say things he doesn't believe. He's got nothing to gain or lose by saying these things about Kobe.

crazy · February 2006

Kobe Bryant can never be in the same league as the greatest basketball players and that's because he may be a good sportman, but he doesn't have good sportsmanship.

He drove the 2 best that LA had - Phil Jackson and Shaq.

He gave his wife a 3 million dollar ring to pacify her

He fought against everyone - why does have half the NBA players have a grudge on him? Why? He isn't the best player in the league - there must be something about him that makes him so unlikeable!!!

He even said that Karl Malone made a pass on his wife ... common!!!

He take a 100 shots a game - and how often has Kobe scored a lot of points and yet LA has gone onto lose?

He is a slimy S.O.B!!!

... personally, I think Kobe is the best thing that has happened to LA - and that's because I hate the LA Lakers!!!

Go Pistons!!! - now that's a true team!

heiney9 · February 2006

Demiurge wrote:

Well, gotta say there's no way to have any discourse with someone who is going to take someones words and say they didn't mean what they said.

Gimme a break, when you are in the public life and a reporter comes up to you and starts asking questions your responses need to be guarded. Do you literally mean everything you say? That's the wonder of the english language. You can fomulate responses in ways to be flattering but at the same time have an underlying tone of meaning something else. Again, like I said, neither me or you is being fair to either Jordan or Kobe by basing our comments on 1 sentence.

You seem to see this 1 sentence as complete validation that Kobe is as great a player as Jordan, I don't see it that way. Really neither of us knows for sure.

H9

Demiurge · February 2006

You seem to see this 1 sentence as complete validation that Kobe is as great a player as Jordan, I don't see it that way. Really neither of us knows for sure.

Personally, I don't see how this whole conversation turned into Michael Jordan VS Kobe Bryant to begin with. As far as Jordan's comments, he made them while speaking to a group, he wasn't being interviewed. He went into it while he was talking about Epiphanny Prince.

I don't like Kobe Bryant, I am not a hardcore follower of the NBA, and I have no affinity for the Lakers. My initial intent in posting this was to say "Holy Cow, that's a lot of points!"

I don't think that Kobe Bryant is anywhere near what Michael Jordan was, and he or anyone will never be. I wouldn't even utter Larry Byrd & Magic Johnson in the same sentence of greatness with Michael Jordan.

Michael Jordan is unique. Not only was he an extremely talented basketball player, he was also a showman. When you combined those two things you got the freak of nature that Jordan was.

This is why some of the responses (not yours) who have people indicating people are claiming Kobe is better than Michael Jordan in this thread just isn't true. As far as his basketball talent (not flying through the air)....Kobe is up there with Jordan, Bird, Magic Johnson, and the like.

I also have to believe that if Kobe didn't get wrapped up in the courts by having some chick accuse him of rape (still an adulterer and a slimeball) we wouldn't be having such a hard time commending him on what he does on the court.

Kobe did what he did, and it was an amazing feat. I don't know what the need is to downplay it, no matter what your personal opinion of him is. He's great at what he does. I am also no forgiver of the actions professional athletes outside of their prospective sports, never have been.

heiney9 · February 2006

Demiurge wrote:

Kobe did what he did, and it was an amazing feat.

Agreed

. Things did get a bit off track.

H9

Demiurge · February 2006

Now if I only could have a team worth watching again.

mogwai · February 2006

Jordan > Kobe

81 Points

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