My afternoon at Spearit Sound

cfrizz

Well I finally went in to hear the new Rotel RMB 1077 digital amp. One of the old timers on the Rotel board purchased one and absolutely loves it. He has some very outstanding equipment including the RMB 1080 (2 chnl 200 wpc) & the RMB 1075 (5 chnl 120 wpc). He sold both of these amps to keep the 1077!

All I can say about it is:HIS HEARING MUST BE FAILING!!!!!

It took me less than 1 minute to hear the difference between the 1077 & a RMB 1095 (5 chnl 200 wpc).

I didn't know what to expect, but I figured if it is a Rotel it has to be good.
Well I couldn't have been more disappointed! The amp was attached to some B&W 80x somethings. I put in my Carly Simon Cape Cod concert and sat back and listened to 3 of her songs.

Then I had him switch to the 1095 amp. Well it was eye openning!

The first thing that is non existent in the 1077 is BASS! I know this disc inside & out & I could not hear any bass! The next thing I noticed is that Carly's vocals were EXTREMELY muddled, and the back up singers almost couldn't be heard! :eek:

Basically it sounded like background music, you could hear it but it didn't make you feel like you were there!

Once he switched over to the 90lb beast of the 1095, the life like YOU ARE THERE quality of the music was back! And as I said I was able to hear this in under a minute!

Well I was hoping to consolidate & just get one box for all of my speakers, but it won't be happening! I won't settle for the 1077. it might sound great as a home theater amp, but if you're like me & need an amp to do both music & movies, than for right now you have to have one of the 80-100lb monsters!

Crazed

Cfrizz:

Thanks for the mini-review! I have been following the discussion on the other board about these amps, and I must say, they had aroused my interest. When I purchased my 1090 (last one my dealer had in stock), I thought about waiting for the digital, but after hearing one I'm glad I didn't. I also found a certain richness missing. SS amps may become the new tube gear in the future as digital makes further inroads into audio.

Thanks again!

Dave

madmax

cfrizz wrote:

All I can say about it is:HIS HEARING MUST BE FAILING!!!!!

It took me less than 1 minute to hear the difference between the 1077 & a RMB 1095 (5 chnl 200 wpc).

I didn't know what to expect, but I figured if it is a Rotel it has to be good.
Well I couldn't have been more disappointed! The amp was attached to some B&W 80x somethings. I put in my Carly Simon Cape Cod concert and sat back and listened to 3 of her songs.

Then I had him switch to the 1095 amp. Well it was eye openning!

The first thing that is non existent in the 1077 is BASS! I know this disc inside & out & I could not hear any bass! The next thing I noticed is that Carly's vocals were EXTREMELY muddled, and the back up singers almost couldn't be heard! :eek:

Basically it sounded like background music, you could hear it but it didn't make you feel like you were there!

Once he switched over to the 90lb beast of the 1095, the life like YOU ARE THERE quality of the music was back! And as I said I was able to hear this in under a minute!

This is meant in the nicest way...

You have all the signs of becoming an audio freak. I predict it will be less than 3 years until you are sitting there frustrated trying to pick out the best power cables for your equipment. Days will be spent trying to figure out if your interconnects sound better after 100 hours of burn in.

Congrats and welcome to the freak club!
madmax

heiney9

Thanks for sharing.....FWIW, I simply don't believe digital amps can compete with the more traditional configuration with a standard power supply. Maybe some day in the future....but it's going to be a hard sell for me personally. Too much nice/solid traditional gear out there that performs to a very high standard to be messing with the limitations imposed by these "trick" amps.

YMMV

H9

cfrizz

LOL! Thanks Madmax, but no I don't think I will ever cross over that line. (I can't afford it.)

But I have ALWAYS insisted on my stereo being at a certain level & I'm not willing to settle for less. Now my level has increased a bit since I learned what a difference a powerful amp can make to even the most modest of systems, and I will not go below that level ever again.

However, I am perfectly happy with my economical Blue Jeans Cable IC's. I don't worry about burn in, I just play it & enjoy it. It will burn in when it burns in & I will probably never notice, since it sounded just fine to me right out of the box!

Like I said the biggest difference for me was adding the Parasound amp to my system. My Polks were basically reborn once they received all of that power.

I do have dreams of one day getting LSI's for at least the fronts & center. I will have to settle for the 9's since I can't physically manage the 15's. And I will have to settle for keeping my 2 separate amps to power them since again I can't physically manage a 5 channel amp. At least not the 200/250 wpc that I insist on having.

So I will leave the fanatical stuff to the rest of you freaks!!!!

madmax wrote:

This is meant in the nicest way...

You have all the signs of becoming an audio freak. I predict it will be less than 3 years until you are sitting there frustrated trying to pick out the best power cables for your equipment. Days will be spent trying to figure out if your interconnects sound better after 100 hours of burn in.

Congrats and welcome to the freak club!
madmax

beardog03

cfrizz wrote:

So I will leave the fanatical stuff to the rest of you freaks!!!!

**sniff** that`s the nicest thing that anybody ever said to me..*sniff**

I, I love you too Ms. Frizz...



sometimes I feel like Winchester...

KEEP BUILDING......!!

Polkersince85

cfrizz wrote:

So I will leave the fanatical stuff to the rest of you freaks!!!!

Somebody's in denial

beardog03

Zero wrote:

Oh, yeah, You many not know it CFrizz, but you're becoming one of us.... one of us!....!

it was/is just a matter of time...

It`s a blessing and a curse to have good ears..!!

cfrizz

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! Bear!

"Somebody's in denial."

I'm NOT in denial, it is simply the truth! If I do ever find myself becoming a freak like the rest of you nuts, I will promptly QUIT this board cold turkey until I get over it!

beardog03 wrote:

**sniff** that`s the nicest thing that anybody ever said to me..*sniff**

I, I love you too Ms. Frizz...



sometimes I feel like Winchester...

KEEP BUILDING......!!

heiney9

cfrizz wrote:

LOL! Thanks Madmax, but no I don't think I will ever cross over that line. (I can't afford it.)

But I have ALWAYS insisted on my stereo being at a certain level & I'm not willing to settle for less. Now my level has increased a bit since I learned what a difference a powerful amp can make to even the most modest of systems, and I will not go below that level ever again.

However, I am perfectly happy with my economical Blue Jeans Cable IC's. I don't worry about burn in, I just play it & enjoy it. It will burn in when it burns in & I will probably never notice, since it sounded just fine to me right out of the box!

Like I said the biggest difference for me was adding the Parasound amp to my system. My Polks were basically reborn once they received all of that power.

I do have dreams of one day getting LSI's for at least the fronts & center. I will have to settle for the 9's since I can't physically manage the 15's. And I will have to settle for keeping my 2 separate amps to power them since again I can't physically manage a 5 channel amp. At least not the 200/250 wpc that I insist on having.

So I will leave the fanatical stuff to the rest of you freaks!!!!

Damn........now I know why women are considered the more rational sex. The logic sounds sooooo good when you read it, but it's impossible to follow. Long live the freaks!!!

H9

dkg999

You have to admire her willpower! I don't know how anyone can leave Spearit Sound without some type of upgrade or new toy being shipped home to meet them. I'll be back in Boston the week of the 30th and I am just hoping I don't have time for a quick taxi ride from Charlestown out to audio heaven

madmax

She's a freak like the rest of us, I'm telling you. Not only that, I'm bookmarking this thread for future use...
madmax

cfrizz

LOL! I upset one of the guys there when I asked him what was that UGLY but thinking FUGLY thing in the other room.

He looked at it & said it was a B&W speaker & that people would get VERY upset to hear me calling it ugly! It cost something like $8000.00 to get a pair of them & they are very proud of them because they sound so fantastic!

I told him I'm sure they do sound great but they are too big & too ugly for me to even consider. Then I made it worse when I told him that B&W's metal tweeters did NOT agree with my ears!

He really went on the defensive then & extolled the virtues & perfection of the metal tweeter & how ALL other tweeters (ie Polks) just weren't good enough & will always breakdown & distort.

All they sell are B&W's & Paridgems, I saw a pair of Martin Logans & a few other things.

All of it out of my price range except for demo stuff.

All in all a very interesting afternoon!

madmax

An honest to goodness future freak I tell ya... Cool on the good day and wishes for many more.

madmax

dkg999

She will be assimilated

Polkersince85

From now on, she will be called "Frizvader"

Frank Z

Polkersince85 wrote:

Somebody's in denial

Egypt?

venomclan

cfrizz wrote:

LOL! I upset one of the guys there when I asked him what was that UGLY but thinking FUGLY thing in the other room.

He looked at it & said it was a B&W speaker & that people would get VERY upset to hear me calling it ugly! It cost something like $8000.00 to get a pair of them & they are very proud of them because they sound so fantastic!

I told him I'm sure they do sound great but they are too big & too ugly for me to even consider. Then I made it worse when I told him that B&W's metal tweeters did NOT agree with my ears!

He really went on the defensive then & extolled the virtues & perfection of the metal tweeter & how ALL other tweeters (ie Polks) just weren't good enough & will always breakdown & distort.

All they sell are B&W's & Paridgems, I saw a pair of Martin Logans & a few other things.

All of it out of my price range except for demo stuff.

All in all a very interesting afternoon!

You were probably looking at the 803D's, they are $8000/pair, or perhaps an older speaker on clearance. I have heard some great things about the Rotel 1077. I am not defending the amp or the speakers but I do have an idea why it did not sound right.
Rotel and B&W 800 series do not mix well. Even though they are the same company, 800 series almost always call for higher end gear. Putting 100 watts, digital or not, to an 800 B&W simply will not sound good. They need at least 300 watts to open up. Then they will blow you away. IMHO

Were the B&W's broken in? They need at least 200 hours to smooth out. The only reason I bring this up is because I have known many people who did not like B&W when demoed. Later, when they were with me at a latet demo, they asked me what models were those speakers that sounded fantastic. I tell them that it was the same speakers you had heard when new or underdriven and did not like them.

To each his own preference. I live by the old saying, "do not insult the cuisine until it is served.
Venom

cfrizz

At least to me.

Venom, I would imagine that the speaker was broken in, it sounded just great when he switched over to the Rotel 1095.

Here is also a copy of speaker I listen to with the 2 amps.

unc2701

The fugly is a nautilus 802 (800's look about the same, but run about $20,000 new)

The demo speaker is a 703.

IMO, don't bother with any b&w's outside of the 800 series. I've never been impressed with the sound, especially compared to the cost. I've noticed the same thing with B&W's needing a lot of power. Similiarly, at low volume, they really come apart- doing a A/B with Wilson's there was no comparison at backgound music-type levels. Turn them up a little and suddenly they come together.

Anyhow, Thanks for the review- I'd been considering a digital amps for a whole house system, but it sounds like I can ditch that idea (still goona have a listen for myself, though)

McLoki

cfrizz wrote:

If I do ever find myself becoming a freak like the rest of you nuts, I will promptly QUIT this board cold turkey until I get over it!

Tell that to Wingnut. We got her, we can get you too......

The definition of a freak is a very fluid concept at Club Polk. There is always someone else you can look at and say "at least I'm not as bad at that guy" (usually BearDog... )

Michael

venomclan

Hi Cfrizz,
Then I would imagine that the 1077 just does not have the power to really drive these. The first speaker you had attached is the 802, most likly the N802 since it is only $8000. The newer 802D is 10-12k. The 802 definatly needs more power. 300 watts at least. The 1095 actually would be on the low end for this speaker. Krell, Classe, Bryston, Theta, Earthquake would be better suited.
The second speaker you attached is the 703, much easier to drive than the 802's, but the 703 still has the FST midrange which need a lot of power also. Rotel 200 watts minimum for the 703's.
Venom

cfrizz

Which explains why they sounded so good once he hooked it up to the 1095.

The guy on Club Rotel is running Klipsch RF7s speakers off of the 1077 & swears by it.

I don't know squat about Klipsh speakers so I don't know if they are in the same catagory as B&W.

venomclan wrote:

Hi Cfrizz,
The second speaker you attached is the 703, much easier to drive than the 802's, but the 703 still has the FST midrange which need a lot of power also. Rotel 200 watts minimum for the 703's.
Venom

audiobliss

cfrizz wrote:

I don't know squat about Klipsh speakers so I don't know if they are in the same catagory as B&W.

Oh most definitely! Of course, I may be just a little biased.

Let me throw out a few facts for you. My pair of RF-35 (next up is RF-5, then RF-7) retail for $1000 a pair. Black veneer sides. Not quite the same category as B&W.

Now, they're also 98db efficient, so they're much easier to drive. Perhaps that has something to do with them sounding good with the digital Rotel.

beardog03

McLoki wrote:

Tell that to Wingnut. We got her, we can get you too......

The definition of a freak is a very fluid concept at Club Polk. There is always someone else you can look at and say "at least I'm not as bad at that guy" (usually BearDog... )

Michael

wwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa



a lot of you guy`s are as bad as me, ya just hide it well..!!!

some...not so much..!

aaharvel

go on girl
get down with ya' bad self

dorokusai

I'm happy that you had a great demo....at what point did you say they overprice their gear?

cfrizz

WAAAA! Mark! I wasn't trying to get thrown out of the store!

As it was the guy was REALLY REALLY pissed off that I put down metal tweeters, & went out of his way without mentioning any names that all other companies that make tweeters with any other kind of material besides metal were basically useless!

I will have to take your word for them being over priced, since as soon as I seen how fugly the entire line of speakers is I lost all interest in them.

Give me quiet understated eleagance for my speakers please!

dorokusai wrote:

I'm happy that you had a great demo....at what point did you say they overprice their gear?

SKsolutions

cfrizz wrote:

WAAAA! Mark! I wasn't trying to get thrown out of the store!

As it was the guy was REALLY REALLY pissed off that I put down metal tweeters, & went out of his way without mentioning any names that all other companies that make tweeters with any other kind of material besides metal were basically useless!

I will have to take your word for them being over priced, since as soon as I seen how fugly the entire line of speakers is I lost all interest in them.

Give me quiet understated eleagance for my speakers please!

Then you will love the LSi's Vifa tweeter. No listening fatigue like most of those metal iterations. As far as the Puritanical Boston up-snobbery. . .F'em as they will find it hard to remain so smug when they return to their homes/mom's basement in Dorchester.

You can find the LSi's Vifa tweeter "reholestale" here if anyone is interested.

http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=8869095.13860&pid=1434

and at $70.oo each it would be the highest end for Vifa, but it looks and specs like a design copy of the ScanSpeak found here for $405.oo each.

http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?exact_match=yes&product=SST&cart_id=1353939.12437

The left is ScanSpeak ($$$) and right is Vifa (LSi)

dorokusai

Vifa makes tweeters way above $70 range, just FYI. Typmhany is the parent company after a merger with DST(Peerless/Scanspeak/Vifa). Vifa Integrated A/V is still independent.

SKsolutions

It appears that I will have have to research and confirm every word before I post, lest someone do a 'drive by' and point it out. I will restate. It is the highest end that that seller provides. This usually translates to the high end of what actually sells. I'm sure every manufacturer has some item that you, Doro are unaware of, so I will make sure to point it out in the future. As far as mergers, I'm am blissfully unaware, thank you.


My point was that the Vifa is spec'd to the Scanspeak. Draw what you will and quibble where you might.