RIP Car Sound and Performance

MacLeod

Well CS&P is no more. Theyve announced they will be closing up shop soon. Theyre going to keep their website and forum up thankfully as it is heavily traveled and they can generate income thru sponsors. That is awesome cause their forum is a wealth of knowledge for car audio enthusiasts of all levels and it would be a crying shame if it went the way of the wind. Where else can you get advice from Gary Biggs, Mark Eldridge, Bob Johann, Richard Clark, David Navone and a bunch else?

This bothers me cause is seems the car audio industry is on its way down the toilet. There is no interest it seems in the purist form of car audio, SQ, but plenty of interest in having wild bling bling installs that dont sound any better than OEM systems but sure can get attention.

Just watch Pimp My Ride or Unique Whips and youll see that none of these systems are set up with performance in mind, only how it will look. This trend will drive the manufacturers to spend more money on chrome plated subs with neon flames then on making sweet sounding midranges.

If this trend continued, I will defect to the home audio side of the world. Theyre a little tweak happy but their only concern is achieving the ultimate SQ and thats what its all about.

audiobliss

Home audio is, at least for now, a safe haven.

nadams

And you say that with Polk releasing new car audio SQ oriented products every day

MacLeod

I didnt say ALL manufacturers. Alpine is the biggest example. Theyve been a standardbearer for SQ for decades so what did they do with their new line of head units? Dump all the SQ features in favor of DVD, Ipod, navigation and other crap. Look at soundoff competitions. The SQ guys are outnumbered by the SPL guys 5 to 1!

amulford

I'm afraid you are right. I'm sorry, but the only place I'd have a dvd would be in the conversion van.

Come on over, We'll make a believer out of you. The thing with HA is it's ALL about SQ. Purity and SPL. Really neat concept...

MacLeod

Yeah, its really sad that sound quality is now the extreme minority in car audio. I mean, who wouldve thought that car audio would be considered a cosmetic upgrade!?! Can you imagine home audio speakers with chrome flames on them?

Im not giving up tho. Im still going to carry the Polk banner into as many SQ competitions as I can and hopefully people will get tired of all the bling bling Unique Whips crap and revolt and bring back SQ as the main focus in car audio.

swerve

shutup Mac... I'm still trying to sell those chrome flame grilles at work... jeeze.

the markup is crazy so the profit is amazing.

Red230SX

MacLeod wrote:

Yeah, its really sad that sound quality is now the extreme minority in car audio. I mean, who wouldve thought that car audio would be considered a cosmetic upgrade!?! Can you imagine home audio speakers with chrome flames on them?

Im not giving up tho. Im still going to carry the Polk banner into as many SQ competitions as I can and hopefully people will get tired of all the bling bling Unique Whips crap and revolt and bring back SQ as the main focus in car audio.

Mac,

Preach it brother! I am on your side.. I hate all the gizmos.. I am not saying
that I don't listen to MP3's but for pete's sake I don't need DVD or Surround
Sound or any of the other gimmicks.

No I can not imagine chrome HT speakers. For me, a quality home theater
component should be milled out of solid aluminum and anodized black or bead
blasted natural finish and should have as few buttons as possible (except for
the HT Receiver of course...)

I never understood SPL... You make a vehicle that plays one solid tone untill
everything is fried, and you can't even listen to it.... Ok....

swerve

Red230SX wrote:

I never understood SPL... You make a vehicle that plays one solid tone untill
everything is fried, and you can't even listen to it.... Ok....

sigh... not this **** again.

Red230SX

swerve wrote:

sigh... not this **** again.

Like I said... I DO NOT understand it.. It doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. Do
NOT confuse the two. You have every right to enjoy SPL comps and I have
every right not not enjoy them and there is room for both camps. But I don't
think the whole industry should cater solely to one side of the camps.

Audiophiles want high quality components devoid of flash and glam that attracts
the yungins. That WAS one of the nice things about Sony MOBILE ES.

audiobliss

Red230SX wrote:

Like I said... I DO NOT understand it.. It doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. Do
NOT confuse the two. You have every right to enjoy SPL comps and I have
every right not not enjoy them and there is room for both camps. But I don't
think the whole industry should cater solely to one side of the camps.

Audiophiles want high quality components devoid of flash and glam that attracts
the yungins. That WAS one of the nice things about Sony MOBILE ES.

Very nicely put. +1

VR3

audiobliss wrote:

Home audio is, at least for now, a safe haven.

Depends on how you define...

"Safe"

Between the IPod, MP3, High End Alarm Clocks, 5.1 In 1 speaker and smaller = better mantality... I wouldnt call it that safe. People keep wanting smaller and smaller things and we know how small speakers sound most of the time... lol

Red230SX

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote:

Depends on how you define...

"Safe"

Between the IPod, MP3, High End Alarm Clocks, 5.1 In 1 speaker and smaller = better mantality... I wouldnt call it that safe. People keep wanting smaller and smaller things and we know how small speakers sound most of the time... lol

Yeah J6P's love gimmicks like the Bose 3-2-1 System.. It should be called the
3-2-1-KABOOM! system

Small speakers are ok to a point.. Miller & Kreisel came out with a Bose Cube
Devastator system that while it's not cheap, really does make "big sound" from
small cubes (bear in mind they aren't as small as Bose Jewel Cubes) and of
course use phenominal drivers.

For casual listening I don't see the problem with higher encoded MP3's I do
listen to them on my 2channel system when I am cleaning the house. Between
the noise of the vacuum cleaner I can't tell the difference

MacLeod

"High end alarm clocks" - WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA

I dont have a problem with people wanting chrome flames or 34" diamond plated wheels for their $300 1972 Monte Carlo or even people that want HTiaB systems I just object to the audiophiles options becoming smaller and smaller!

If Alpine wanted to come out with a bunch of head units that cater to Ipods and DVD's that perfectly fine, I just wish they also came out with a bunch of head units with TA, high volt preouts and so on.

1996blackmax

MacLeod wrote:

I didnt say ALL manufacturers. Alpine is the biggest example. Theyve been a standardbearer for SQ for decades so what did they do with their new line of head units? Dump all the SQ features in favor of DVD, Ipod, navigation and other crap. Look at soundoff competitions. The SQ guys are outnumbered by the SPL guys 5 to 1!

I had seen this from Alpine a while ago. People came down on me, but little by little . To me it's a sad thing because I really like Alpine, it was my one of my favorite brands. I use to run a bunch of Alpine gear in my car. I would still put that gear against their top non F1 stuff. Some of this gear was from around 1997 or so. I am just glad there are still some manufacturers that are still dedicated to SQ around.

I also feel bad about the magazine . I guess I and many others should have kept buying it. I also think the trend of bling in not a good one. If some young kid new to audio where to look at some Audiobahn amps and then my amps, he woud probably say that he preferres the chrome ones. This I guess is what sells. Hopefully the same guy over time will learn and support the companies putting out SQ oriented products over the bling stuff.

VR3

I have no respect for Miller and Kriesel.

I wouldnt jump off a ship to save my life if M&K's higher quality drivers were the lifeguard.

Their 1,000 dollar subwoofer uses $80 dollar drivers. And yes, you're reading that right.

M&K is a high end Bose with legit technology most of the time...

The reason why I said MP3 is killing the audio world is mostly the IPod. The IPod is not a high fidelity tool to the majority of its owners. So you're looking at punk teens listening to some **** music thats been compressed to all get out and thats "ok" - so then the recording engineers for the OEM CDs start making trashier recordings than they already are because it dont matter. Its all a trickle down effect...

And High End Alarm Clocks is right, Polk is releasing one, if not released.

brettw22

To make a blanket statement that MP3 is killing the industry is a stretch. For those that are into SQ, they can have that from an Ipod, because those people are probably ripping their music at much higher rates than the typical 128mbs. Ipods are a hell of a lost more convenient to carry around than a massive CD wallet, but if your preference is the cd wallet/book, so be it.

Saying the I-Sonic is a high end alarm clock is dumbing it down and ultimately showing your own bias/ignorance. Tell me how many alarm clocks have the ability to be your cd/DVD player, sound system, HD radio receiver, or Satellite music receiver. The alarm clock is one that will probably rarely be used, but even if it is, I think it's funny that people trash what something is before they've actually experienced it. It IS ok you to not have a particular use for an item, but still acknowledge that many others will without acting like because you don't, it's a purposeless product.

PolkThug

What's up with the car DVD haters? I just watched the gunfight scene in Heat, in the ThugStang, and it sounded effin' sweet, and the subs aren't even hooked up yet.

VR3

I never said it had no purpose.

I said it basically is killing the HA SQ market. You explain to me how the ISonic or any alarm clock in the 500 or so + price bracket is helping further a SQ based market.

Explain to me how small speakers the size of a 4" cube is helping further the SQ market...

The IPod?

MP3?

The 5 or 3 channel speakers in one...

HTIB

The market is becoming slimmer and slimmer for SQ, and its taking alot of the exposure to SQ based components out of the mainstream market...

brettw22

The more electronic features you introduce into a device/system, the more potential for unnecessary 'noise' from those functions.

Basically, he's looking for a less is more approach that is fairly common thing for those into HT.

VR3

If you dont believe me...

You should check out the audio market over-seas. These companies over here that produce garbage make some absolutely amazing products over-seas. Simply because America dosnt have that "market" on a large scale...

brettw22

If you're under the impression that the I-Sonic is trying to be everyone's replacement (primary) HT system, you're diluted. Some might just want something simple for a bedroom or den...are you going to suggest that they setup a whole HT setup in those places because you can't fathom the possiblity that this would work better for their needs? Get your head out of the sky and realize that not every manufacturer is looking to BE THE HT SOLUTION OF THE CENTURY and you'll have a much easier time accepting that these products do indeed have their own niche.

There are products out there for all of us that are into the purity concept. If you don't like this piece in particular, move on and find something that fits YOUR needs so you don't have to impose your needs on Joe Blow. Stuff exists......you just need to find it, and pay for it (without passing judgement on those that don't match your own requirements).

VR3

I have no reason to continue with this discussion. Because you're just going to keep responding with the intentions of making me look like a pompous fool...

While I see the reasons for every single item Ive mentioned and know why they exist. I dont understand why companies who makes just AWESOME speakers are having to waste their R&D on products that dumb down this hobby to almost nothing.

But I do know why, its because its what they have to do to compete with other brands. The Surroundbar (and products like it), while a great idea, Im sure is one you will have to worry about. Once that becomes the "norm" and you can pick them up for next to nothing, the market will slowly shift to that, especially considering the HA market is pretty much HT based.

Now you can say I have my head in the sky and all that, but the "big box speakers" are going less and less out of the norm.

Im sure if someone said speakers like the 1.2's were to be replaced by the LSi15 in 20 years, they would of laughed. But the reality is, the market product size has all but been cut into half - and I wouldnt be surprised to see it cut to half again. The average joe DEFINES the market.

Am I saying the mid-fi market will dissapear? No.

I am saying I think it will become alot smaller with alot less selection than you see now.

MacLeod

PolkThug wrote:

What's up with the car DVD haters? I just watched the gunfight scene in Heat, in the ThugStang, and it sounded effin' sweet, and the subs aren't even hooked up yet.

Because DVD players in cars represent the essence of what we're talking about here which is car audio is no longer about achieving great sound but rather a cosmetic upgrade to make your car look cooler.

Same principle with the 40" rims. They do nothing but make your car ride unbearably stiff and make your tires much more vulnerable to puncture.....but they sure do look cool.

VR3

And it sounds good in a song!

"Im rollin in my 40" rims and my teef of gold and you still cant spell my name yo!
So Ill change it to a symbol and then yall know!

OH OH!

MacLeod

Word, yo.

There is this dude that shows up to competitions that reminds me of that. Drives a big old Crown Victoria, wears the XXXXXXXXL jogging suit, has the sideways hat, pants down around his knees, smokes Kools, weighs about 120 pounds soaking wet has red hair and freckles!! The most ridiculous dude Ive ever seen.

brettw22

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote:

While I see the reasons for every single item Ive mentioned and know why they exist. I dont understand why companies who makes just AWESOME speakers are having to waste their R&D on products that dumb down this hobby to almost nothing.

If you ran your own audio company using your ideals, you'd go broke and be out of business. I think it's funny that you act like them developing a new product is 'wasting their R&D' to 'dumb down' the market. One day you'll realize the actual why's that you're not grasping........

swerve

**** quality
iPod +1

i hoep everything good goes down the drain... and all they have is SPL comps.
haha.

nadams

Sid- Polk has to make products that make them money... then they have the funds to research bigger and better things. You go where the market is, or you're out of business. I think Polk has walked the line between market share and high-quality products very well, offering high-quality products at market share "consumer-level" prices.

exalted512

Screw polk and sq. Long live iPods and Dual!
-Cody

audiobliss

*shakes head as the imminent damage driving a Civic brings manifests itself in what was once known as 'Cody'*