another reciever question?

higgins79

hi, i just orederd some rti12s a csi5 and a pair of fxi5s. i currently have an onkyo 803. i know the rti12s can handle alot more power than the reciever can put out (105 watts) but is that enough. the polk site says a minimum of 50 or 60. i do not want to under power and distort the speakers but also i would prefer to not shell out any more money. will the 803 be enough.

thanks for any imput

higgins79

anybody out there?

Holydoc

Your receiver stats are misleading. The wattage rating your are reading is based on a single speaker being driven. If all 5 of your speakers were working at maximum and equal capacity, then your wattage rating would be more closely computed to 21watts.

It takes a bit of power to drive those RTI12's. According to how loud you play your system (if you run it anywhere near reference level, you could damage your speakers) is according how much distortion, clipping, etc. you will introduce into your systems speakers.

As you can see, I have nearly the same setup as you (if you overlook the upgraded receiver and 2 extra speakers) but decided to purchase a 7 channel 200watt amp to help push those RTi12 "bad boys". It made quite a difference in the sound and I have no worries about underpower distortion.

*** On another note, patience is a virtue. Sarcasm causes intolerance and feelings of disrespect. Just some advice that you can take as you please. ***

halo

Good advice Holydoc. I agree that you want more clean power pushing those 12's. If at all possible I'd return or exchange the 12's for 8's and put the extra dough into a separate amp. Best of luck

higgins79

sorry i guess i should have stated the power differently. it is a 105 watts a channel x7 so each speaker will get the 105. so i guess my question should have been is 105 watts enough to drive the rti12s.

McLoki

Will it run the speakers - sure.

Will they sound their best and will you be able to really crank them when you want - no.

It will work fine for awhile, but eventually you will want a separate amp (2 or 3 channel would be a good investment - run the rears off the Onkyo). It is not something you need right away, but if you never intend to get one - I would get a MUCH more expensive reciever (Sunfire or B&K type expensive) or some different speakers.

Its your money and your setup so do what you like, but those are my opinions.

Michael

halo

higgins79 wrote:

sorry i guess i should have stated the power differently. it is a 105 watts a channel x7 so each speaker will get the 105. so i guess my question should have been is 105 watts enough to drive the rti12s.

Onkyo (as well as many other brands) get that rating with their receiver driving one speaker. Break it down to 7 speakers and you're looking at 15 wpc. It may not be that low but that receiver is not giving you 105 wpc. No where near that figure. Denon and H/K receivers aren't rated like the rest - ie "more power".

Again, if it were me, I'd get the RTi 8's and put the difference into an amp. You could pick up something used on eBay or Audiogon that'll fit your budget Hope this helps

higgins79

i had thought about adding a amp to the onkyo but the actual polk site here used the phrase "half baked" when bi-amping with out using all that expensive cross over equipment. if i just use the passive cross over in the speaker ( not to got on all the speaker jargon sry if i am wording any of this wrong) will i be ok.

McLoki

I think you are getting confused. What we are proposing is the purchase of an external amp (for this discussion lets pretend it is a 2 channel amp and you have a 5.1 setup with a powered subwoofer.)

Run the pre-outs from your Onkyo to the inputs on the amplifier. Hook your front speakers to the external amplifier.

Your center channel and surrounds are hooked to your Onkyo reciever.

There is only one amplifier section connected to each speaker (external amp connected to your front 2 speakers - Onkyo amp connected to your center and rear speakers)

The benefits of this are:
more power for your front speakers where it is really needed via the external amplifer.

More power for the rest of your speakers because your Onkyo only has to run your 3 smallest speakers and does not have to send any wattage or current to your large, power hungry RTi12's. (since the center channel is used most in movies, that is why I was suggesting a 3 channel amp initially so your Onkyo only has to handle the rear speakers - typically the smallest and least used of the speakers in a HT setup.)

Anyway - You would use the speaker volume settings in your onkyo to balance the volume between the speakers run with external amps and the speakers run with the Onkyo AVR.

Michael

higgins79

ok now it makes sense. with an amp what is minimum i should not go under to power them.

McLoki

Actually kind of a trick question. What you really need is current not watts. (and many manufacturers don't specify the current of their amps) - I would say 200 or so would be a very safe bet, but even a 100 watt amp with kill a 100 watt reciever because of (among other things) the additional current that a true amplifier can supply.

Getting a decent 200 watt, 2 channel amp in the $300-$500 range should be pretty easy on the used market. 3 channel amps will jump up to the $500-$850 range.

Obviously you can spend less or more depending on the brand and condition, but those are used averages.

Michael

I usually look at the max that the speaker will take and try and get as close to (or slightly above) that as possible for my budget, but that is overdoing it a bit as well...

higgins79

i have access to an onkyo m82 amp that is 140x2 would that be ok. If so do i run both channels into the two sets of posts on the speaker or if only use one channel on the amp will it deliever all 280 to the speaker. Or should be looking at something else or am i still completely lost

Holydoc

Higgins,

I think you are talking about the Onkyo M-282 amp. Its power rating is a bit misleading as well. Onkyo promotes the amp at 2 x 140watts at 8ohm impendence. But once you read the specs, you will see that Onkyo specs the amp as 2 x 125watts per channel at 6ohm impedence. The 140watts again are with single speaker driven. This amp will actually give you something of the lines of 2 x 80watts per channel at 8ohms. That amp does NOT have 280watts available to it. But I am getting off topic. Let me answer your question.

To hook up the amp to your RTi12 speakers, you would run 2 cables from your receiver (Red {right} and White {left} connects are called pre-outs on the back-center-bottom of your receiver) to the amp's inputs. Caution: I am talking about the RCA connector outputs (on receiver) and RCA connector inputs (on the amp), NOT the speaker lines.

Now disconnect the RTi12 speaker lines from your receiver and connect them to the speaker posts on your amp. All done! Easy as pie.

higgins79

clearly audio is not my thing. will the m 282 be adequate then? i got the pre outs to the amp down. now, do i just run one set of speaker cable to the speaker or do i use both channel outs and both set of speaker posts. (sorry i am asking so many questions)

Holydoc

By connecting the RCA line from your receiver to the amp, you basically bypass your receiver's speaker posts. If you read my post carefully, you will see I told you to disconnect the RTi12 speaker cables from your receiver. That is because you want to run your speakers strictly from your amp. Your speakers will ONLY be connected to your amp.

Is the m282 adequate? It is according to what you mean by adequate. Your RTi12's take a recommended minimum of 50watts of power to run and maxes out at 500watts. Your amplifier can only put out about 80watts of power. This is indeed higher than the recommended minimum (and much better than your receiver alone) but no where near the max that your speakers can handle.

The resulting sound is going to be much better and fuller than your receiver alone, but you are still a long ways from getting the full potential of your system.

higgins79

seriously i am sorry for so many questions. I understand about the pre outs and not using the speaker outs n the reciever. i believe you said the amp is actually 80watts on 2 channels so can't i use one channel on the bottom speaker posts on rti12s and then the other channel on the upper speaker posts on the rti12s for a total of 160watts of bi amp or bi wiring what ever it is called?

higgins79

sorry, would the above apply assuming i will have accuired another 282 so i have one for each front speaker. using a y adapter both the front pre outs with an rca style cable going from the y adaptors into the left and right of the ins on the amp so i can use both channel outs on each of the amps for boths sets of posts (after removing that plate thingy) on the rti12s

cfrizz

Why are you trying to make this more complicated than it has to be? Just get a 200 or higher wpc 2 channel amplifier, attach speakers to amp, attach via IC's amp to receiver via front left & right speaker pre-outs & enjoy!

higgins79

i already have this 282 that was free. and as the other chap said its just "enough" the speakers could use more. so for a small cost to me wouldn't onother one solve my problem.