AGP vs. PCI

dorokusai

Sami wrote:

Only three plus some Linux servers (most older 700MHz-1GHz Pentiums). Once they get to the point where they are ok for gaming I might also sell them. Keeps the count down and is cheaper than upgrading components. I just prefer doing a fresh build over upgrading and it has been cost effective for me.

I'm not a real fan of upgrading either, just recently upgraded the first part in my computer in 5 years....but a new build is definetly on the horizon.

Sami

Airplay355 wrote:

Polk thug,
Isn't that an 8x agp card? Don't I need 4 or under?

They are backward compatible.

nadams

cam5860 wrote:

Hey you forgot to add in the keyboard, mice and speakers with that system. That's another 100 dollars right there.

The only thing I didn't put in were speakers. Logitech Internet Pro Desktop, Black- $16 is the keyboard and mouse. Even if you add speakers it will be far under $100 more.

nadams

Okay, so if speakers are required, here's a set for $35 that I've heard and think sound very good for the price. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16836121119

Airplay355

Speakers heehee. Like I need any more speakers. I don't have $900 to spend on a new computer right now, so upgrading the video card and adding alittle more RAM seems to be my best and cheapest option. My computer is fine for typing, instant messaging, and the internet. The only issue I have with it is that some programs open and close slowly and I can't play games. The video card, that I'm returning, let's me play games the way I want to and that's without a RAM upgrade. Plus it's a PCI card. I think I will be happy with a newer video card and some RAM

Nadams, do you know what kind of RAM I need? I saw you said it's pc133 but I don't know what that is or what kinds are best. Would I be able to put two 512 MB chips in there and have over a gb of ram? Or am I really stuck with the 512 limit?

PolkThug,
I'm interested in the card

nadams

Airplay- yes, you're stuck with the 512mb limit. That's a limit imposed by the motherboard, and there's no way to increase that. Here's the memory I would recommend for your system- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820146303

There are cheaper sticks out there, but they're all high-density, which may not work in your system (hard to tell with PC133 stuff, so I prefer to play it safe). Plus, mushkin is a good brand w/ a lifetime warranty. As a testament to the rising prices of PC133... a comparable stick of DDR (same brand, size) is $20 vs $45

Airplay355

Polk thug! Clean out you're inbox foo

Sami

BFG GeForceFX 5200OC 256MB AGP $50 Shipped

http://www.ableshopper.com/#16011868

EDIT: Sorry, I thought you bought a 5200, not 5500

PolkThug

Airplay355 wrote:

Polk thug! Clean out you're inbox foo

I got some space now, sorry to everyone I've been neglecting.

Airplay355

Hey nadams? Why wouldn't I want to get the Intel P4 that's a 3.0 GHZ processor and $177? That's $17 for 1ghz more? and the cache is 2mb instead of 512kb? I don't know much about processors, but isnt the Intel a better deal?

rnp614

You cant compare Intel to AMD when it comes to clock speed. They're designed differently thus AMD came up with their rating system with is a number followed by a +. Thats generally their approximation at Intel Mhz. The AMD is still a better buy bc its a 64 bit processor and with a little bit of learning, you can overclock the processor and squeeze EVEN MORE performance out of it.

Airplay355

If you can't compare them how do you figure out which one is faster? Experience?

BTW: ANother one of my CD drives just died so I'm going to seriously consider building my own computer. Thats where all the questions are coming from.

nadams

Airplay- that's completely up to you. I don't build with Intel due to personal preference, and clock speed is by no means the de facto benchmark. That, as rnp explained, is why AMD went back to their "performance rating" system. My Athlon 2200+ actually operates at 1.8ghz, but they're saying it would be comparable to a 2.2ghz processor from their "competitors". And, face it, Intel _is_ their only competitor.

A lot of it boils down to personal preference and how you're going to use it. I like the AMD processors because they include a hardware rotate instruction that boosts my performance in distributed computing projects. Plus, I root for the underdog... always have . Intel strongarmed AMD out of a market share, and I'm glad to see AMD clawing their way back to the top with some really innovative products.

rnp614

You tell whats equal through the performance rating as well as benchmarks. Go to anandtech.com and look through their CPU comparisons.

nadams

They actually just did a comparison in Maximum PC magazine with the Intel Pentium Extreme Edidtion 955 and the AMD Athlon 64 FX-60. The relavant information

Intel- $999, 376million transistors. 3.46ghz, 2mb L2 cache, 1066mhz FSB, 65nm process
AMD- $1,031, 233 million transistors. two 2.6ghz cores, 1mb L2 per core, 90nm process

The result:

"We expected the FX-60 to be the winner coming into this competition, and we weren't surprised. Despite the faster FSB and double the L2 cache over the previous dual-core Extreme Edition, the Pentium Extreme Edition 955 still gets spanked by the Athlon FX-60"

Now, that's on top-of-the line processors that cost, near as makes no difference, $1000 each, which is absolutely rediculous.

I agree... look at other benchmarks comparing AMD to Intel. You'll see that each has their strengths, and you just have to decide for yourself which is going to suit you.

PhantomOG

Airplay355 wrote:

If you can't compare them how do you figure out which one is faster? Experience?

BTW: ANother one of my CD drives just died so I'm going to seriously consider building my own computer. Thats where all the questions are coming from.

Unfortunately you will have to rely on benchmarks you can find on the web and recommendations from people you trust.

10 years ago, AMD and Intel processor designs were so similar you could effectively compare them based on their clock speed. However, the architectures have diverged so much since then that you cannot use that as a useful metric when comparing performance. Even the cache size cannot be looked at independently for useful information regarding performance.

I'm severely biased towards AMD. They currently have better technology and better designs. All of this with probably around 1/10th of the money and engineers that Intel has. On top of that, Intel uses monopolistic business techniques to push AMD out of the marketplace. Intel has been slapped with fines for this overseas and AMD currently has a suit pending in the US against Intel.

Airplay355

OK so I attempted to put together a system based on what I thought my needs were. This does not include a case because I need help finding one to fit the motherboard, Windows XP 64 bit, because that's a given, or a monitor because I have a nice Sony Trinitron that doesn't need upgrading, plus monitors are one of the easiest things to upgrade in the future. So, should I change anything? Any incompatibilities? Please give me some advice


LITE-ON Black ATAPI/E-IDE DVD Burner With 5X DVD-RAM Write Model SHM-165P6S RTL - Retail
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LITE-ON Black IDE Combo Drive Model SOHC-5236V BK RTL - Retail
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SAMSUNG SpinPoint P Series SP2514N 250GB 7200 RPM IDE Ultra ATA133 Hard Drive - OEM
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$98.99 $98.99

ASUS A8N-SLI Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
Model #: A8N-SLI
Item #: N82E16813131524
$122.00 $122.00
Video Cards

Albatron PC6800GS Geforce 6800 256MB GDDR2 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail
Model #: PC6800GS
Item #: N82E16814170094
$194.00 $194.00

Logitech Internet Pro Desktop 967457-0403 Black PS/2 Wired Standard Keyboard Mouse Included - OEM
Model #: 967457-0403
Item #: N82E16823126152
$16.00 $16.00

G.SKILL 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered System Memory Model F1-3200USU1-1GBHS - Retail
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AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor Model ADA3200BPBOX - Retail
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$160.00 $160.00
Subtotal: $766.97

rnp614

lookin good airplay. One thing, is that ram a twin kit or 1 1gb stick? If its one stick, you may want to look in the direction of the 1gb Corsair value ram. At one point there was a deal that for something like 130 you could get 2x1gig sticks

Airplay355

ok, ill look into that...it's a 1 gb stick...i still need a case though, how do i find one that fits?

nadams

You just want a regular old ATX Mid-tower case. Newegg has 'em in whatever flavor you want. Side window, no side window, included PSU, no PSU, black, white, orange, beige, 2 tone... whatever.

rnp614

Or you could get the Antec 1650 (i think) its a great case and comes with a decent PSU. I love mine.

nadams

It's actually on sale now with a MIR- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129150

I have the same case, just a sligtly older version without the opening in the side panel over the CPU-


Except, of course, mine is beige.

rnp614

I like my all black one better

nadams

yeah, black really would look better... especially since my keyboard, mouse, and monitor are all back. but at the time all of my components were beige, so I went with what matched. Before this case I had a silver monstrosity with a plexy side window and LED fans that lit the whole thing up. I was young and foolish then, and saw the err of my ways, which is when I picked up the Antec.

BTW- when I bought mine, it came with the SL300S PSU, which just failed on me the other week. Well, it didn't actually fail, but I started getting noise in my onboard sound, like if I would scroll a window or move the mouse I could hear a faint screeching. Checked the PSU and found 3 dead caps... that marks the third failed Antec PSU in about 3 years for me, one of which was a TruePower 550 in a server, which was not that old when it failed!

bobman1235

Hmm. I've had my Antec PSU for about 4 years now, with no problems.

Airplay, my only recommendation to you is maybe look at a SATA hard drive instead of IDE. The bus is a little faster (150 instead of 133) but mostly it's just a lot easier to wire them (no huge IDE ribbon cables).

nadams

Also... don't cheap out on your RAM. That will come back to bite you in the long (or maybe short) run.

Those cases have plenty of space inside for a full ATX mobo, too-



The AGP card is a little tight with the extra power connector on the back, but it does fit... and I could move my HD if it was a real problem...

Schris22

wow is that a floppy drive?!?

heh

Chris

nadams

Yeah... sorry for being so old-fashioned, but I've found floppies to still be the most reliable way to boot systems into DOS utilities. Drive diagnostics, memtest, and the like. I keep one in my main system for making those disks. I have started moving over to CD-based utilities, but I've found that sometimes finnicky systems just won't boot off the CD no matter what you do.

rnp614

I too wont build a computer without a floppy. I feel naked without one As far as antecs I havent had any issues either.

On the subject of SATA vs IDE, some mobos can be bitchy about installing the OS on a SATA drive rather than an IDE, so if you're new to building computers I'd probably still stick to IDE.

rnp614

Oh and as far as memory I'd say a LOT of people love their Corsair Value. I know I do! The CAS 2.5 1 gig sticks rock...hell even the 512 ones do. I need to get around to ordering another actually for my living room comp