Now this is funky (tubes and interconnects)

organ
organ Posts: 4,969
edited January 2006 in 2 Channel Audio
Alright, I've come to the conclusion that IC's can probably make a bigger difference with tube equipments than I realized.

The other day, I was connecting/disconnecting some stuff from my pre. When I finally had to disconnect the IC that runs to my amp, I decided to leave the amp on because it was a quick connection.

Anyway, when the IC was unplugged from the pre but still connected to my amp, it turned into a microphone! You can even hear your finger rubbing against the jacket of the IC (I'm using Audioquest Diamondback). Even tapping the cable very gently produced sound from the speakers. I didn't know about this.

I guess I know what guitarists mean when they talk about how tube amps and their instruments "become one". Of course there's tone, sustain, etc as well.

Just thought I'd share this with you guys.

Maurice
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited January 2006
    I like the analogy Maurice. It’s amazing what we learn.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited January 2006
    If I have time, I might try swapping IC's and see what kind of sound I get. But I'm too lazy right now and I'm perfectly happy with the IC's I'm using. XLO Pro 100 from source to pre and Diamondbacks from pre to amp.

    When it comes to audio, we never stop learning:).
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  • janmike
    janmike Posts: 6,146
    edited January 2006
    Not just audio, everything.
    Michael ;)
    In the beginning, all knowledge was new!
    NORTH of 60°
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited January 2006
    Sounds like a quick way to learn how you can blow something up....never leave anything powered up while doing "research".
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited January 2006
    JAN,
    That's true.

    Doro,
    It was a harmless experiment, I don't think something like that could cause damage.
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited January 2006
    Yea, tell that to the genius that blew up my pre-amp at the SC Polkfest.

    Go ahead, it's not my stuff. Why don't you short the IC's together while your at it if it isn't harmful? Try doing that on gear that isn't friendly to an instant change in negative feedback through the inputs.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited January 2006
    I noticed this when my preamp tubes were starting to become microphonic. Before that, no problem. You really should power down tube stuff before moving interconnects around, you can quickly damage stuff. I'm just too bullheaded.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited January 2006
    Remember TPG II? Thank God it was *cough* Henry's RTA 15TL's hooked up. Bruce kept pulling interconns without shutting anything down. BAAAWAAAAAAAANNNNN POP!

    Hence the dedicated demo people at Maryland. Some people kept looking at me funny when they had to ASK me to change speakers out in the all tube RTA 8/ Mon 10 room - but after I explained it, it was cool and they were actually glad that I was the one to be blamed for any problems arising in said room.

    Maurice, be careful, without a true 'mute' function, you can short an input quickly (and permanently). If you want to keep doing it, trying sticking an RCA in your cornhole and farting. Report back.

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited January 2006
    I forgot about the Texas shindig....Bruce :D

    Nothing like 120db feedback and screams of "Turn that **** off damnit!"
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited January 2006
    Gee, what crawled up your ****?

    That's the proper way to bias an ST-70. Disconnect from pre, amp on and multimeter in bias sockets.

    Maybe I should disconnect my speaker wires and create a dead short. Not sure what's gonna happen because I don't know anything.
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited January 2006
    I'm just stating that it's not a good idea Maurice, as in busting your balls?
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited January 2006
    Russ,
    Yeah, if I'm biasing the amp, I normally just turn off the pre but most recommend disconnecting it from the pre. So I'm always being careful not to cause any short.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited January 2006
    Easy killer, it's just like giving a guy from nam' a flashback. You didn't mean to, and it's unrelated, but it brought up some painful audio **** for Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch..

    Tubes Rule.
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited January 2006
    Doro,
    ****, I guess I didn't make that clear in my original post. That's how my amp is supposed to be biased so I've done it quite often and have to be very careful everytime. Sorry dude.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited January 2006
    Were you wearing your Technicolor Dreamcoat?
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited January 2006
    RuSsMaN wrote:
    Easy killer, it's just like giving a guy from nam' a flashback. You didn't mean to, and it's unrelated, but it brought up some painful audio **** for Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch..

    Tubes Rule.

    Man, didn't Bruce go through something similar that involved an exposed circuit board?
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited January 2006
    It's all good man...no worries, you still have high hit points with me :)

    I just thought it was neccesary to say that, for those unlike yourself, typically not a good idea.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited January 2006
    organ wrote:
    Man, didn't Bruce go through something similar that involved an exposed circuit board?

    YEA LMAO! At the same place no doubt! That's classic...what was even better was seeing it happen.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited January 2006
    LOL. You guys are so mean:D. Maybe there should be some form of agreement visitors must sign at the next Polk meeting.

    .... The home owner will not be held responsible for any injury caused by an audio equipment to a Club Polk member.

    Sign here.... and initials here....

    LOL
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  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited January 2006
    If they get any larger, it might not be a bad idea :D
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
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  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited January 2006
    You should keep that in mind in case somebody decides to bring along a Krell amplifier LOL.

    But waking up with vibrapod nipples is pretty funny too(HBomb):D.
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  • fredv
    fredv Posts: 923
    edited January 2006
    organ wrote:
    It was a harmless experiment, I don't think something like that could cause damage.
    I wish ... I did exactly like that, and my wallet was $345 lighter ..... Also, sounds like at least one of your tubes developed microphonic... I learned that 3 weeks ago ;)

    -fredv-
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited January 2006
    only one time i forgot to turn the amp off and without thinking i unplugged the IC's from the pre.. &$@^@&(_(&!! i'll never do that again. Maurice.. don't do it. you're gonna blow something up that way.
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
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  • disneyjoe7
    disneyjoe7 Posts: 11,435
    edited January 2006
    RuSsMaN wrote:
    Hence the dedicated demo people at Maryland. Some people kept looking at me funny when they had to ASK me to change speakers out in the all tube RTA 8/ Mon 10 room - but after I explained it, it was cool and they were actually glad that I was the one to be blamed for any problems arising in said room.



    Cheers,
    Russ


    Russ, I didn't mind this policy and completely understood the reasoning behind it.

    Cheers,
    Steve

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  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited January 2006
    Ok, let me settle this. I didn't write down the procedure in my first post.

    I have a Dynaco ST-70. To "properly" bias this amp, it has to be on and disconnected from the pre amp. I believe even Dynaco tells you to do it this way. The pre amp was never on at all.

    The tubes are not microphonic because this only happened when the IC's were disconnected from the pre and you can hear it from both channels. With the IC's back in place, I could smack those wires and it's still dead silent.

    Maurice
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  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited January 2006
    ok, but still disconnect any speakers you have connected to your Dynaco.. if you hear a pop coming from your speakers. that ain't good. capiche
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
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  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited January 2006
    No can do. A tube amp should never be powered up with no load. This can damage the output trannies and tubes. They need a load connected to them when turned on.

    There was no loud pops or anything. The sound I heard was just audible through the speakers.
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  • audiobliss
    audiobliss Posts: 12,518
    edited January 2006
    organ wrote:
    No can do. A tube amp should never be powered up with no load. This can damage the output trannies and tubes. They need a load connected to them when turned on.

    I'm glad I read that. I didn't know that.
    George Grand wrote: »
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  • organ
    organ Posts: 4,969
    edited January 2006
    How are the Wave 8's, Bliss?

    Did you check out the new Reference lines from Klipsch? They've got pics from CES. The new top of the line tower makes our RF-35 look like bird poo.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited January 2006
    audiobliss wrote:
    I'm glad I read that. I didn't know that.

    You did know that. I specifically told you before you even attach the power cord to your amps, to make sure speakers were connected. You just didn't listen. ;)

    It's not a bad idea for solid state either.

    His 8's should be kicking **** and taking names, with the mods.
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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