DVD-A Question

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  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,489
    edited January 2006
    F1nut wrote:
    BTW, it's my understanding that HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are geared towards video as opposed to audio.

    of course they're video formats. My point is their audio specs.

    Both Blu-ray & HD-DVD support standard PCM, Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby Loseless (MLP), DTS and DTS-HD for audio carriers. NOT DSD/SACD. Not DVD-A's advanced pcm.

    Therefore- not only do Blu-Ray and HD-DVD NOT guarantee the survival of either the SACD and DVD-A formats: if anything- it makes their survival look even more grim.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,703
    edited January 2006
    At this point I'd say HD-DVD and Blu-Ray have less of a chance of making it than DVD-A or SACD.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

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  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,489
    edited January 2006
    i'd say until one standard is accepted by everyone and the suits stop acting like money grubbing whores- then yeah you're prob. right. I'd be too nervous to throw down the plastic for any of them.
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited January 2006
    aaharvel wrote:
    i'd say until one standard is accepted by everyone and the suits stop acting like money grubbing whores- then yeah you're prob. right.

    Now I agree with that one about the money. But not likely the CEO's are going to get together. Yep, its about money, very big money. Then you have the engineers vs the bean counters at a place like Sony I imagine thats quite a battle.

    To each their own but I cant live my audio life worrying about this or that format, I buy the best I can get within my budget, well, I busted the budget, so now I am broke, but a happy broke none the less. Right now SACD/DVD-A is the best we have in digital so thats what I go with, well, acutally, I go with SACD for nearly all of it.

    Spring Break, didn't you just get done with Christmas Break!! :)

    RT1
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  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,489
    edited January 2006
    no i had Strep for much of Christmas break so looking forward to March/April to make up for it.
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  • schwarcw
    schwarcw Posts: 7,340
    edited January 2006
    Interesting and fun discussion. A lot of our members reinforce my perspective that SACD and DVD-A are going to be with us a while. Blu-ray and HD do nothing for hi rez audio. Leaving us with the currently available mediums, vinyl, SACD and DVD-A. Many low cost universal players support DVD-A and SACD. Separate the audiofiles from the videofiles. Many video files are happy with DD or DTS. They will buy blu-ray for the video enhancements. There will be niche market for the near future for audiofiles loooking for high resolution source material with their existing players. The new Sony and Toshiba players don't serve the needs of the audiofiles. Hence we hang on to what we got. SACD and DVD-A. Many reaonsably priced players support these formats.

    Carl
    Carl

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  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,489
    edited January 2006
    In 2004, SACD's $10 million dollar annual budget disappeared- and it hasn't been renewed since. With their recent corporate restructuring, it appears that Sony is taking steps to phase out SACD in it's current form (and other non-profitable ventures) to gain back confidence in their shareholders & prepare for the upcoming Blu-Ray/HD-DVD war.
    http://www.audioholics.com/news/pressreleases/EHXsurround2004conference2.php
    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05180/530332.stm

    According to the RIAA there are approx. 3,000 SACDS. The number of U.S. shipments from January-June of last year totaled just over 300,000. That means mathmatically speaking only 100 discs were available per title. Total 2004/2005 year-end SACD sales were down 39.6%. Thanks to DualDisc, DVD-A's year-end sales were down "only" 20.9%. To say the formats are fine b/c of the number of players available is naive. Consumers don't need more players from companies with an engineering prestige hard-on. They need software for existing players.
    http://www.riaa.com/news/marketingdata/facts.asp

    The backbreaker is Sony's policy on subsidizing other labels SACD releases, especially those of smaller independent labels. For example, Blue Note (Norah Jones) and Sugar Hill (Nickel Creek) are no longer releasing SACDs because the DSD mastering costs are too high. The first batch of DSD mastering costs were paid for by Sony to get the technology in the door. Now that Sony has stopped the freebies, the studios (exception Telarc) are getting off the bandwagon- which explains the steady decrease in the number of SACDS each year. As a DSD fan I'm disappointed.
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  • schwarcw
    schwarcw Posts: 7,340
    edited January 2006
    I heard that Sony sold the technology licensing rights for SACD. I have no print on this. Anyone hear this story.

    Carl
    Carl

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  • Danny Tse
    Danny Tse Posts: 5,206
    edited January 2006
    aaharvel wrote:
    According to the RIAA there are approx. 3,000 SACDS. The number of U.S. shipments from January-June of last year totaled just over 300,000. That means mathmatically speaking only 100 discs were available per title. Total 2004/2005 year-end SACD sales were down 39.6%. Thanks to DualDisc, DVD-A's year-end sales were down "only" 20.9%. To say the formats are fine b/c of the number of players available is naive. Consumers don't need more players from companies with an engineering prestige hard-on. They need software for existing players.
    http://www.riaa.com/news/marketingdata/facts.asp

    Actually, according to sa-cd.net as of today, there're 3,508 SACD released around the world. Sa-cd.net has the most comprehensive list of SACD titles on the 'net, follow by Sony Europe's superaudio-cd.com. However, sa-cd.net doesn't list every single title released (meaning the number of SACD titles released already exceeded 3,508 quite a while back) and vast majority of the SACDs released are not "officially" imported into the US. For example, Dire Straits' Brothers In Arms SACD. And RIAA, Recording Industry Association of America, only counts sales using SoundScan in the US only.

    As for the sales data of January - June 2005 (which is the latest available data), the data is kind of misleading. If you click on the above table, you will see that DualDisc is counted as CD. Which means, when the sales of the Dire Straits Brothers In Arms DualDisc or the Talking Heads DualDiscs are counted, those will not go toward the sales of CD even though the forementioned titles all contain hi-rez DVD-A mixes. And I heard only single-layer SACDs are counted as SACD; hybrid SACD is counted as CD. I don't remember where I heard this though but when was the last single-layer SACD released? 2 years ago at least.

    This is beside the issue of SoundScan.....will my purchase of Duran Duran's new SACD from sonymusicstore.com be counted by SoundScan? Or will only purchases from places like Best Buy or Walmart be counted?
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  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited January 2006
    Well, once again have to disagree with you aaharvel. It is extremely important that manufacture's keep making Hi-rez players. 3500 SACD discs is plenty for me to pick and choose, but I will need something to listen to them on if my present players were to all hit the skids. Now I listen to Redbook also and have spent a good deal of time and coin buliding a rig that can sound good with any format.

    No doubt Hi-rez will be a niche market, so the battle will be between vinyl and SACD as they are the best formats and blow CD/MP3/DD all that other stuff away, DVD-A sound just as good to me, but on some discs and machines you must hook up to a TV to use the menu and change to 2ch high rez.

    As long as their are SACD and vinyl I will be pursuing my nervana. If something better comes along I am all for it. Recording engineers and true artists know SACD sounds better than Redbook, the push for it will need to come from them and the enthusiasts who buy the discs.

    RT1
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  • Danny Tse
    Danny Tse Posts: 5,206
    edited January 2006
    In regards to hi-rez hardware, I think we are seeing more hi-rez hardware now than ever before. From the recent CES, I see hi-rez players from Pioneer to TEAC/Esoteric. And for SACD, NAD, Parasound and HK hopped onboard this year. And Cambridge Audio is readying a new universal player as well. Rumor has it that Rotel will be joining the SACD rank as well.
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  • aaharvel
    aaharvel Posts: 4,489
    edited January 2006
    reeltrouble1 wrote:
    Recording engineers and true artists know SACD sounds better than Redbook, the push for it will need to come from them and the enthusiasts who buy the discs.RT1

    I agree with you 100%. Let me know when this happens. ;)
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