Remote Starts for a Manual.....

brettw22

I want to have a remote start put in my car (winter in chicago = sucks ****) but nowhere will install them due to liability issues blah blah blah. I've owned my car for over 4 years and have never ever parked it in gear (never learned that way, and won't ever do it).

Have any of y'all installed one of these things and if so, they will work in a manual just like they would a automatic, right? All of the systems I've seen have specified that they're for automatic cars only (I assume because of the liability thing).....

exalted512

They work the same. The only thing different is you have to bypass the clutch which I dont know how to do. For an extra safety precaution, everyone that ive seen/installed come with a negative saftey shut down that you can hook up to your parking break. If the parking break isnt on, it wont start your car basically. All the wires are the same though, all youd need to find out is how to bypass the clutch. Im sure the forums on www.the12volt.com can tell you how.

But yea, any remote start will start any manual car, doesnt matter what alarm it is. If you find out how to bypass the clutch, I can probably answer any questions you have. Ive done a few of em.
-Cody

brettw22

I don't want to install it myself..........i'm thinkin of tryin to pay a tweeter installer on the side to do it for me........the last thing i'll be doing is cutting any wires anywhere in my car or house.......

exalted512

then yea, any remote start will work with any manual car...unless its a big dodge diesel(and some others, but dodge comes to mind), then your options are limited. I'd suggest the Marksman m7 or the m6 if you dont care for an alarm. Both of which can be had on ebay for extremely cheap and are very good. I installed the m7 on my truck and absolutely love it. They are also fairly easy to install.
-Cody

PoweredByDodge

i don't know about post 2003 dodge diesels (the new body style), but I did a 97 cummins diesel and it worked out fine -- all you need is a remote starter with a provision for a glow plug trigger... Crimestopper has them I know -- I believe DEI Viper does as well.

for any non-diesel stickshift... it's cake dude....

wire it just like for the same car (if it were automatic).

go down to the clutch pedal.

behind the clutch are a couple of wires. maybe 2 - maybe 1 - maybe 4.

what you do is test the wires with the clutch "up".

then test them with the clutch "down".

whatever values change (meaning if one of them is 0 volts "up", but 12 volts "down" -- or if its 12 volts up and 0 volts down)... then all you do is tap into those wires and hook up suitable relays to send the proper signals to trick the vehicle into thinking hte clutch is down. Then you run the relays to a DEDICATED IGNITION WIRE from the remote starter.

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TAP THEM INTO A IGNITION LINE FROM THE REMOTE STARTER THAT HAS ANYTHING ELSE HOOKED TO IT.

what will happen if you do is that everytime you turn the key forward in the car it'll bypass the clutch... you don't want that - you only want it to bypass whne you're remote starting.

most remote starts have 2 or even 3 ignition lines. sometimes you only use 1 -- god knows i only use one and just tap everything i need into it - it's less work, less wires...

use the 2nd or 3rd one for the clutch bypass relay.

I did my '03 like that... didnt take any longer than doing any other car.

mine was pretty simple - 12V trigger above the clutch, when you push it down, it contacts another wire that sends a 12 V signal to the starter relay to enable it. so all i had to do was take a relay... 87 to 12V, 30 to the 2nd wire that gets the signal.... 86 to ground, 85 to IGN-2 on the remote starter.

i'll warn you of something though.... i have yet to pull it apart because its cold and i dont have time with finals - but i think i'm damaging my tranny.

stick shift tranny fluid is VERY thick -- its not that ATF3 **** that goes into automatics (which is quite thin by comparison) --- some sticks use straight 30weight motor oil even.

what is happening in my truck is that the heavy fluid - during the cold weather - is not "happy" to move when the truck hasn't been running (fresh cold start).

by pushing the clutch in - you disconnect the motor from the tranny - leaving you free to start the motor and then let it spin the tranny after its already started.

when you start up a stick shift with the clutch engaged - even though the truck's in neutral - it still wants to move fluid... and it wants to engage synchronizers.

from listening to the way it is starting right now - i believe i have fly wheel damage.

basically - there's a damn load on the starter than is way beyond the load of a normal engine and auto tranny. and its burning itself out and then half engaging with the flywheel and eating teeth off itself... ya - real pretty.

i have a hydraulic cluth -- new venture gear 4500 tranny.

i believe if i can replace it with an electric clutch that i will not have this problem anymore because i can actuate the electric clutch with teh remote starter... however i have to see if it is cost prohibitive... if its too much money - the remote starter gets disabled and set into just alarm mode.

Mike B.

I've seen three cars drive into buildings, so I WONT DO IT. Several friends of mine have them, I take note not to park in front of them.

brettw22

PBD, all the problems you're describing, are you saying that they're inherant to just your truck or manual's in general will most likely experience?

exalted512

thats why I was saying in some dodges its not too great. Youre supposed to warm it up a few minutes before you actually start it. Some alarms allow you to do this. Goes back to the whole "unless its a big dodge diesel(and some others, but dodge comes to mind), then your options are limited." thing. Some alarms do it, some dont. Its not something you should experience if you dont have to warm it up before you start it.

What PBD saying about the clutch is exactly right after thinking about it.

I know a guy who had remote start in his skyline. Started it one day and wrecked right into his garage wall. Couple g's worth of damage, fun times.
-Cody

brettw22

That's for people that actually leave their car in gear when they park them in place of a parking brake......I haven't ever done that, and if I was to ever leave the car somewhere for service, I wouldn't be leaving the autostart remote.......

PoweredByDodge

i'm saying that my problem is possible for anyone who tries to remote start a stick shift transmission that takes a fluid heavier than standard ATF.

my tranny uses Syntorq multi-viscosity stick tranny oil. it's thick - a lot thicker than motor oil. the **** reminds me of 80w95 rear end gear oil... almost as thick. standard ATF is about as thick as power steering fluid - looks like water compared to motor oil...

find out what your tranny takes. find out if you have electronic synchronization or hydraulic (most are hydraulic - some very very high performance ones are electric)... and find out whether your clutch is electric or hydraulic. some cars are electric -most all trucks are hydraulic.

the decision is up to you - i'm not going to try to sway you one way or another - but i am experiencing a bad problem that i need to rectify - if you're not doing this right away ... my finals are done this week - after that i was gonna pull the starter and take a look at the flywheel. i'll know a lot more after that. if you wanna hold off until then, i'd be happy to give you a more definite idea of whats wrong, why its wrong, and whether i think it would affect your car or not.

i'm still hoping that it may be as simple as the starter not torqued down properly and jostling in its location - causing a misfire of the end gear against the flywheel -- i'[m almost positive it's not hte problem - but it would be the cheapest fix so i'm hoping.


putting aside the mechanical issues...

part it in neutral, always put your brake on.

that way if you screw up and leave it in gear, at least it'll stall out as soon as it starts.

i find remmy start an invaluable asset - lots of times up here we get so much icing that i can't open the doors without starting the truck to get the door jambs warm eough to break loose. they keyless power locks was nice too - but now since i dont have power locks anymore i just park behind the old man (who does have keyless) and leave the doors unlocked in the backyard at night in the winter.

PoweredByDodge

exalted512 wrote:

thats why I was saying in some dodges its not too great.

i thought u just meant dodge diesels... sry. just about any diesel (duramax, powerstroke, isuzu, mack, etc etc) will have the same setup with a glow plug.

i'm not even 100% sure how a glow plug works -- something about heating up the combustion chamber or intake tunnels so as to allow a good start and prevent grinding out the starter since diesels don't have spark plugs.

audiobliss

PoweredByDodge wrote:

something about heating up the combustion chamber or intake tunnels

There you go. I'm not sure which one it is, but it is for warming the engine up since diesels don't like starting in the cold.

neomagus00

wikipedia says it's for the chambers... fyi...

exalted512

PoweredByDodge wrote:

i thought u just meant dodge diesels... sry. just about any diesel (duramax, powerstroke, isuzu, mack, etc etc) will have the same setup with a glow plug.

actually, i was referring to just dodge diesels. I know for a fact that the duramax doesnt have to warm up during a cold start and it will not damage anything. Same with the new isuzu's. I'm not sure about the old ones or the powerstrokes though.
-Cody

Toxis

I love my Clifford AvantGuard5... manual + remote start = wonderful in the winter.

brettw22

Did you install it yourself or have someone do it for you?

ohskigod

remote start in a manual. eeeesh, I'd be to paranoid. I'll go out in the cold. I use the parking brake and leave it in gear because of paranoia. I have a thing against my car crashing into sh^t ..LOL

audiobliss

ohskigod wrote:

I have a thing against my car crashing into sh^t ..LOL

Me, too. I'd rather be behind the wheel punching the gas when it hits something! :D

PoweredByDodge

the cummins is a 25 to 30 year old engine.

that's probably why.

even the newest 5.9L CTD are the same **** as 25 years ago but with all the bugs worked out. I suppose you can only modify something so much until it's just at its limit of being screwed with. still a hell of a motor though.

exalted512

how do you like the clifford ag5?

I'll be getting the new version of it when it comes out after CES.
-Cody

brettw22

Where do you even link to find any info on those Clifford setups? I can't get anything to pop on yahoo or google.

neomagus00

www.clifford.com?

PoweredByDodge

never had any exp with clifford. i've only done like maybe 10 or so alarms and half that in remote starts. it's not something i'd claim any real knowledge about other than how to hook them up - my brand preference is by ease of installation and what i've used (whether it holds up or not)... thats why i'm all crimestopper and dei... but i hear audiovox and clifford are very good as well if not better...

exalted512

clifford IS dei...

For clifford, go to directed's website and go to the clifford link.
-Cody

PoweredByDodge

ahh... gotcha

Toxis

I'd never own an Audiovox or Crimestopper personally. DEI and Clifford are nice (yes DEI owns clifford). I love my AG5! The manual safety feature is nice so there's absolutely no chance in hell I could screw up my car by remote starting it. Only problem with it is the Tilt sensor. Doesn't work! They finally fixed it and I'm waiting for my new sensor. We shall see how this one works though. Other than that, it's flawless! Never falses EVER!

PoweredByDodge

what is the "manual safety feature" ?

exalted512

it hooks up to your parking brake, if the parking brake isnt on, the engine will not start.
-Cody

PoweredByDodge

hmm... you can do that with any of them though.

put a relay on the parking brake light (button at back of p-brake) and put the relay in line with the 'start' lead of the remote starter.

smart little idea though - i shudda done that on mine - and i'm far too lazy to go taking it apart now. i've got enough trouble gettin this crossover together - its HUGE.

Toxis

actually, mine has nothing to do with the parking brake. What you have to do is this... When you want to be able to remote start it, before you get out of it you have to hit a button on the remote. Now when you take the key out, the engine is still running (hence why it knows it's safe to run without the key and the transmission isn't in gear). When you arm the alarm, it shuts down the motor. Now all you have to do is hit another button and it'll remote start the next morning or whatever. Somewhat a pain but well worth it to be 100% sure your car won't be ramming into a light pole, dumpster or another car. Yes I know other people who have had all three of those happen with other alarms.

Custom Jim

Toxis wrote:

actually, mine has nothing to do with the parking brake. What you have to do is this... When you want to be able to remote start it, before you get out of it you have to hit a button on the remote. Now when you take the key out, the engine is still running (hence why it knows it's safe to run without the key and the transmission isn't in gear). When you arm the alarm, it shuts down the motor. Now all you have to do is hit another button and it'll remote start the next morning or whatever. Somewhat a pain but well worth it to be 100% sure your car won't be ramming into a light pole, dumpster or another car. Yes I know other people who have had all three of those happen with other alarms.

The Clifford system I did on a manual transmission car years ago was like this but it also was tied into the security system to where if a door was opened or the impact sensor was tripped the vehicle would not remote start. The reason for that was if the door was opened after the shutdown sequence it was assuming it was put into gear and the same as far as the impact sensor sensing a vibration from possibly the shifter being moved or noises from the gears in the gear box. It did though have a parking brake input that needed to be wired in also.

Ideally if a person wanted more safeguards they could tie into the vehicles speed sensor wire to where if the system sensed vehicle movement through driveshaft rotation it would shut down. Sorta like what they have now with shutting down the vehicle if you open the hood or apply the brake.

Eventually I would like to see any remote starter also monitor the fuel level. Any of these systems will run a vehicle out of gas and when that happens some of the in tank fuel pumps burn up from not being cooled by the fuel around them.

Jim