Are Power Conditioners Worth It

scubamike

Just wondering if a power conditioner would do me any good. If so what model and price range should I look at?

F1nut

Why do you think you need one? What gear would you connect to it? Do you have a dedicated line already?

There are basically two types, passive and active. Both have advantages, so do a little research to understand which would suit you best, but you absolutely want one that doesn't limit current at all.

Ferres

You could also consider having someone install a separate higher amp fuse box and outlet line dedicated to your AV system.

george daniel

Mine is on a 20 amp dedicated circuit/line

Early B.

scubamike wrote:

Just wondering if a power conditioner would do me any good. If so what model and price range should I look at?

Only way to know is to try it. For some people it makes a big difference; for others it's a waste of money. Depends on a a lot of factors. Just buy a moderately priced one and return it if it doesn't make a difference.

The other consideration of power conditioners is for peace of mind. Your gear is protected from power surges. If peace of mind is something you'd like to have, then invest in one.

No need to spend a ton of money on one, either. The most cost effective power conditioner I've used is a TrippLite Isobar for about $35. It works just as good as my $500 Monster power center.

LiquidSound

Correct me if I'm wrong. Receivers and whatnot are designed on a source of clean power..right? Shouldn't you give them what they were designed to run on? SQ and PQ improvements aside, with the surge protection, clean power, and warranty on equipment damage that some pieces carry..it seems like peace of mind to me.

read-alot

Anthem forbids the use of conditioners with their TLP-1 pre amp.

I dont know about other equipment made by Anthem or why.

I am using one while I wait (7 weeks now) on the Dodd ELP.

mantis

read-alot wrote:

Anthem forbids the use of conditioners with their TLP-1 pre amp.

I dont know about other equipment made by Anthem or why.

I am using one while I wait (7 weeks now) on the Dodd ELP.

Where did you get this Info? I never heard of a company telling anyone not to use a conditioner. I find that very hard to believe as installing this preamp, there is always going to be more then 1 more gear. You need somewhere to plug all the gear into. Conditioners are very worth it. As noted above in the prior posts. Depending on the level of system you own should warrant the level of Conditioner/Surge protector you use.

Many companies make em and I support a few. Monster makes nice Conditioners as well as Panamax and Richard Grey. Ps Audio's are very respected in the Industry. If it doesn't help your system sound or look better Video wise, it's a great way to protect your investment. I find that already worth the asking cost. Also noted in the above posts.

Dan

steveinaz

In my own experience I prefer passive units (aka fancy multiple outlet). I use a Panamax but still plug my power amp directly into the wall outlet. I tried a Monster conditioner (active), I did not like the way in made my music sound soft and "lumpy."

Go ahead and spend say $200, but I wouldn't go any higher than that. The PS Audio "Juicebar" would be a good buy. Your music dollars would go farther investing anything more than that into speakers/source.

read-alot

mantis wrote:

Where did you get this Info? I never heard of a company telling anyone not to use a conditioner.

Dan

Its in the freaking owners manual. I didnt make it up.

Why can you not - ah the hell with it READ IT YOURSELF

DO NOT USE A POWER LINE CONDITIONER:
• Certain design characteristics of many Power Line Conditioners make them incompatible with
the TLP 1 and may cause the TLP 1's AC line fuse to blow.

tryrrthg

steveinaz wrote:

The PS Audio "Juicebar" would be a good buy. Your music dollars would go farther investing anything more than that into speakers/source.

I'm pretty sure the PS Audio Juicebar offers no protection. it's just a fancy power strip, no surge protection, no conditioning, just extra plugs.

F1nut

That's correct, the Juice Bar is a high end power strip, nothing more. For protection/conditioning you'd need something like the passive UPC-200, which can be had new for as little as $370.00 on Audiogon.

mantis

read-alot wrote:

Its in the freaking owners manual. I didnt make it up.

Why can you not - ah the hell with it READ IT YOURSELF

DO NOT USE A POWER LINE CONDITIONER:
• Certain design characteristics of many Power Line Conditioners make them incompatible with
the TLP 1 and may cause the TLP 1's AC line fuse to blow.

Any reason your angry? I asked a question, don't take it so personal.

I'll avoid giving you any advice in the future.

read-alot

mantis wrote:

I find that very hard to believe

Dan

No problem there hoss, I just dont like people calling me a liar. You should do a little research before making this type of comment.

opus

read-alot wrote:

No problem there hoss, I just dont like people calling me a liar. You should do a little research before making this type of comment.

Read, What's with the attitude bud? Mantis didn't call you a liar. He asked a question. And then he made a statement based on his past experience.( right or wrong). Both are allowed here and not unheard of. If you have information that would help enlighten us and have access to "the freaking owners manual" I'm sure we would all be happy to do a little more research.

thanks 'lil hoss

F1nut

Unbelieveable

BIZILL

just for the hell of it i dictionary.com'ed 'hoss'. not a word. but i still sorta like it for some odd reason.

mantis

read-alot wrote:

No problem there hoss, I just dont like people calling me a liar. You should do a little research before making this type of comment.

I didn't call you a liar, I found that hard to believe that a company wouldn't want you to use a conditioner, thats it. I asked where the info came from, re read my post.
If your this angry maybe you shouldn't be posting in here. Find somewhere else.If you can talk about things civil, I'll give you another shot.

Dan

polkatese

I am always under the impression that "Hoss" came from the Ponderosa Ranch day, in reference of the memorable character of Eric 'Hoss' Cartwright (1959-72)-Dan Blocker. Anyone in my age group can confirm? or, who are up late at night waiting for the re-run of Bonanza?

BIZILL

i still want some info on "hoss". also, please, those who own conditioners guide us and speak out. thanks.

gregure

First of all, I've always associated "hoss" with Bonanza. I don't think there is another origin.
Second of all, I am a big proponent of line conditioners. I would recommend against Monster units, though, as I've owned one and it was definitely inferior to what I've experienced from Panamax. Panamax are great units, their whole company is based on creating these, and that is where all their research goes. Plus, I like them because their local, based in Petaluma, CA, about 20 mins from my home. Panamax has two really good qualities: 1. They are designed to simply shut off if power dips or surges, and will turn back on when they sense a stable current. This means no damage to components or the unit itself. 2. They have dedicated amp outlets for which the capacitors have been removed to prevent current limiting.
To the original poster: Is it worth it? Yes. You will notice a marked improvement of picture quality on your tv, a slight improvement in sound quality with your music, and have the overall benefit of knowing that you're equipment is protected and working at full potential. As far as I'm concerned, you can't spend too little on a line conditioner-the more you spend, the better filtration you'll get. I have a MAX5500 from Panamax, retails for $1000. That's a bit steep for most people, but it's a great unit, and the first one in the line that has a transformer for filtration, which will handle up to 4 amps. The unit itself will handle more, but the outlets connected to the transformer are meant for 4 amps.
Lastly, in regards to the argument that's sprouted up here, it is not unheard of for certain equipment to have issues with line conditioners. At Magnolia, they have a difficulty with Primare gear interacting with Panamax units. Neither Primare or Panamax can figure out why, but the problems persist. Sumiko reps usually recommend plugging Primare amps into the wall to avoid these issues, believing that if a surge happens it will only blow a fuse-easy to replace. There's kind of a joke with Primare gear:
"I have an issue with my Primare amp, it doesn't appear to be working."
"Is the amp plugged into a line conditioner?"
"No."
"Is there a line conditioner plugged into the same outlet as the amp?"
"No."
"Is there a line conditioner plugged into the same circuit as the amp?"
"No."
"Oh, maybe there's something wrong with your amp."

steveinaz

tryrrthg wrote:

I'm pretty sure the PS Audio Juicebar offers no protection. it's just a fancy power strip, no surge protection, no conditioning, just extra plugs.

Exactly.

polkatese

I have a Panamax 5500 too, and one thing that I learned: the 12v trigger feature of it need to be bypassed, when connecting a Pre/Pro to a very-high current power amp(s). It caused the protection on the amp to go off, every time. So, to that end, that's only my caveat. Connecting a HC amp to the Panamax HC outlet is fine, but not the trigger.

tryrrthg

steveinaz wrote:

Exactly.

And that will be your response to this post too

For $150 (or whatever the juicebar costs) you could probably have an electrician come out and put in a dedicated 20 amp circuit in. That or a whole house surge protector.

scubamike

I was thinking about a Monster unit that Bestbuy carries but if the Panamax is that much better I will do some research for one of those. Of course with Christmas coming up I dont know how much extra cash I have.

jtgranby

I just bought one of these.http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=90139792&loc=101. Will see how it works.
Jim

wingnut4772

I have a Panamax M440 20 amp model and I could not be happier. I used to have everything hooked up to a Monster Hts2500 . There is a big improvement with the Panamax. I don't know if that is just because it was made for my 20amp dedicated circuit and the Monster is not? But I love it. I was really surprised to hear an impovement. I was just looking for the protection of a surge supressor.

Gaara

Personaly I think the monster ones are worth if for thier lower end stuff, but you get greatly diminishing returns after the HTS 1000 for $150. If I had to do it all over again I would look at companies like Equi-Tech, Brickwall, and Panamax. I would also have installed my dedicated 20 amp line much earlier before even seriously looking into line conditioners.

Jared

F1nut

I use two PS Audio UPC-200's, one for the amp and the other for the SACD player with both set to ultra high current. They add nothing, they take nothing away and offer some of, if not the best protection out there.

jrlouie

Sometimes a conditioner is a requirement. I rented a house at one point that if someone turned the garbage-disposal on in the kitchen, a surge would trip the protection on my AVR! Kind of funny sitting around drinking brewskies one night and trying to figure out why the damn AVR kept flicking off. What do you know, some **** in the kitchen Anyway, rather than fighting and waiting for the land-lord to work on this, a Tripp-Lite conditioner solved my problems. I no longer live there, but I still use the conditioner at a newly-renovated loft/apartment building and it's amazing how much unknown voltage fluctuations occur there too. I wouldn't have known this newly wired place had these problems, but my conditioner has a display on the front that indicates if it is receiving normal, high, or low voltage. That thing is constantly reporting low voltages.
http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=2833

Although, the product does make kind of make an annoying click when flipping into the mode to boost voltage when it has a lack there of. But it does give me a sense of comfort knowing a steady voltage is flowing to the tubes.

Fallen Kell

LiquidSound wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong. Receivers and whatnot are designed on a source of clean power..right? Shouldn't you give them what they were designed to run on? SQ and PQ improvements aside, with the surge protection, clean power, and warranty on equipment damage that some pieces carry..it seems like peace of mind to me.

Actually "Recievers and whatnot" are designed to be used with a power transformer that converts your AC power to DC power which is then used to do all the SQ and PQ. Now, if your AC->DC transformer was designed to use a perfect 60Hz sine wave and can not output the rated DC current from anything but that 60Hz sine wave AC, then, yes, you might see an improvement. But I can tell you that there are MANY AC->DC transformers that can work on many different power standards, since there is no worldwide standard, the mass manufacturers of the AC->DC transformers realized, "Hey, we can sell more of these units if it worked in the USA, Japan, and Europe", so they eased the restrictions on the AC input. Heck, there are computer power supplies that will work on 90V-250V input with sine or square waves from 40-70Hz, we use them all the time at work in many pieces of equipment...

Again, it all depends on what gear you own and how tollerant your gear is to clean power. Then you also might not see/hear any differences as well because you may already have clean enough power for your gear...