Ebay sucks!

WilliamM2

Well I finally signed up for ebay a couple of weeks ago, wish I never had.

First item I purchased was a Rotel RB-951 MkII. Seller described it as "Gauranteed in new condition". Although the face panel only had a couple very small nics, the top case looked like he played hockey on it. So I sand and respray the top, and it's quite liveable for $178 delivered, but not what I was expecting.

The second item was a pair of RTi28's to match my CSi40 center. They were described as "Brand new, never used, paid $199 delivered, which I know is high, but I wanted a brand new set. Although they look like they were never used, they arrive in the original box, no manual, warranty cards, etc. One speaker has a smashed corner on the cabinet, on the other, I hear a loud rattle inside, I'm guessing the tweeter magnet fell off, since the tweeter doesn't work, didn't notice the rattle until after hooking them up. Bummer.

I've contacted the seller of the RTi's for a refund, but heard nothing yet.

Can't believe Polk would pack two fifteen pound speakers tightly, with plain cardboard caps on top and bottom, no foam or anything else to protect from being dropped in shipping, heck, even my R15's had nice foam packing material. And I have researched and found that that is exactly how they originally shipped them. So I guess the damage is actually Polks's poor packaging at fault.

Normally, if purchased from a store, you would just return these items, no hassle, I wonder how this will turn out.

No more Ebay for me! Thanks for letting me vent.

polksda

Ummm, the title of the thread is wrong. Ebay doesn't suck, the sellers do.

Also, follow the cardinal rules of Ebay:

1. Must have lotsa pix. If you're relying on a written description, you're asking for trouble.

2. ONLY pay by using a credit card through PayPal. Then you have two layers of recourse, should the unthinkable happen.

WilliamM2

Both items had pics, the amp had about 12, but as you know, scratches and things often cannot be seen in pics. And as I stated above, the Speakers did look like they were never used, it was a combination of Polks poor packaging, and UPS poor handling that I believe caused that problem.

Both sellers had 100% feedback, there is really not much else to go on. The thing that makes me nervous about the speakers, is that the seller is not responding, but he never did respond in a timely fashion.

I did pay with a credit card through Pay-Pal, can I still dispute the charge (VISA)?

aaharvel

i've been lucky with my e-bay purchases. Therefore i don't do business on ebay often. Still~ outstanding deals if you look carefully. I still have to slap myself whenever I think about the CdP i got from there.

beardog03

I have about a 70/30..(good/bad) on ebay..

Sometimes it`s a crap shoot, but for the most part I have been lucky..
UPwoops is usually the problem..

Always have the items insured when using UPwoops..

WilliamM2

They were insured, but due to Polk's shoddy packaging, I'm sure the claim will be denied. There is absolutly no foam in the boxes, just cardboard. If I had been the shipper, I would have double boxed them at the very least.

And if I'm not mistaken, it's the shipper that must file the claim, and gets the refund, after all, he purchased the insurance, not me.

The seller did contact me, he says after UPS pays the claim, he will refund my money, but like I said, I'm sure they will deny it for insufficient packaging. And besides, I've had UPS take months to pay a claim, and I'm not willing to wait that long, so I'm wondering what my other options are.

faster100

If it was factory packing they can't and wont deny it, again though Ups is known for not paying, good luck

W WALDECKER

Good topic,i know that alot of the folks here buy off of e-bay. i have a very hard time giving my hard earned money to people that i dont know. dont get me wrong, i have and will buy gently used equiptment but it is from reputable dealers like Upscale Audio for example. i am willing to pay a little more to ensure that i am getting what i want in pristine condition with a thirty day return policy so if i decide that i dont really care for the specific item i am not stuck with it.thanks....WCW III

rskarvan

I've purchased a DAC and a Yamaha CD player from E-bay. The DAC was for $250 and originally retailed for $1000. The CD player was for $25 and originally retailed for $250. I also bought a set of monster interconnects for $35 that retailed for $300. ALL ARRIVED IN PRISTINE CONDITION, EXACTLY AS DESCRIBED, AND I AM VERY SATISFIED. I have purchase $300 brand-new ski boots from e-bay for $35 too. So far, I am up to like 18 items purchased without a single incident. E-bay is my favorite store - why buy retail when you can get the same used for much less than half price?

W WALDECKER

rskarvan wrote:

I've purchased a DAC and a Yamaha CD player from E-bay. The DAC was for $250 and originally retailed for $1000. The CD player was for $25 and originally retailed for $250. I also bought a set of monster interconnects for $35 that retailed for $300. ALL ARRIVED IN PRISTINE CONDITION, EXACTLY AS DESCRIBED, AND I AM VERY SATISFIED. I have purchase $300 brand-new ski boots from e-bay for $35 too. So far, I am up to like 18 items purchased without a single incident. E-bay is my favorite store - why buy retail when you can get the same used for much less than half price?

if you feel comfortable buying gear or ski boots or whatever off of E-bay more power to you! i can only speak for myself and nobody else.i dont like suprises and i hope that your good luck continues. i have heard the good the bad and the ugly regarding E-bay purchases and based on this information i am wary of shopping on E-bay.thanks....WCW III

rskarvan

I do agree there is risk in purchasing off e-bay. But, there is also potential for reward. I think its a good idea to weigh the risk/reward ratio before purchasing off E-bay. I would not purchase off E-bay for a 10 or 20% savings. The reward doesn't justify the risk. But, when the savings well exceeds 50% of what I must pay anywhere else, its seriously worth considering. I will bid on an auction only until the item no longer becomes a steal (very good deal). As for purchasing speakers, its way too risky when shipping damage is a possibility. However, for a local pickup, I wouldn't hestitate to bid on e-bay and then pay in person (after inspecting the goods). Cash and carry is usually a safe thing to do. I have driven 200 miles to pay for a speaker in person (in cash). I too hate the idea of getting ripped off. I purchased a guitar amp off e-bay and drove 250 miles to pay and pick it up in person. The cost of my gas was about equal to the purchase price. But, my time assured me that I wasn't going to be disappointed.

W WALDECKER

rskarvan wrote:

I do agree there is risk in purchasing off e-bay. But, there is also potential for reward. I think its a good idea to weigh the risk/reward ratio before purchasing off E-bay. I would not purchase off E-bay for a 10 or 20% savings. The reward doesn't justify the risk. But, when the savings well exceeds 50% of what I must pay anywhere else, its seriously worth considering. I will bid on an auction only until the item no longer becomes a steal (very good deal). As for purchasing speakers, its way too risky when shipping damage is a possibility. However, for a local pickup, I wouldn't hestitate to bid on e-bay and then pay in person (after inspecting the goods). Cash and carry is usually a safe thing to do. I have driven 200 miles to pay for a speaker in person (in cash). I too hate the idea of getting ripped off.

Gotcha!

Emlyn

I've learned that the Ebay phrase "no scratches that I can see" means, "I tried to cover up the scratches on the case with my Sharpie and if I stand far enough away I can't see any scratches now."

All in all though, Ebay has been good to me. Local sales through Audiogon have been much better though.

polkatese

Emlyn wrote:

I've learned that the term Ebay phrase "no scratches that I can see" means, "I tried to cover up the scratches on the case with my Sharpie and if I stand far enough away I can't see any scratches now."

All in all though, Ebay has been good to me. Local sales through Audiogon have been much better though.

Agreed! buying and selling gears only on CP and Agon for me. Besides, a lot more fun since I get to know fellow polkies - so far so good.

heiney9

I have had good luck with all my purchases. I research very carefully and try not to pay top dollar. I'm sure my time will come when I have some kind of issue. It's part of the "risk" of getting a "deal" on a new product or buying something no longer available. I do more selling than buying on E-bay and I am a fanatic about explaining condition/terms etc. If everyone were this detailed and honest it would be much better.

There are certain things I won't have shipped and speakers is one of them. But you were completely correct to assume factory packaging would be safe enough to keep them from getting damaged. If the seller follows through and UPS screws him, he's done all he can do. As far as the Rotel amp you could file a complaint about "item received not as described" but if you get the refund the amp would have to go back....maybe you've decided to live with it.

Bottom line.....shopping on-line at certain sites/auctions has it risks. All we can hope is the positive experiences outweigh the negative ones.

H9

MacLeod

I hate Ebay too and always recommend against buying things off of there. A lot of people have had good luck but just as many have had bad luck. I prefer to save a little extra and buy brand spanking new from the store. That way if you do have a problem it can usually be resolved the same day.

I also hate snipers.

shepx2

Polk always packs their speakers with styrofoam cutouts around the speakers, at least the 50 or so I've opened over the years. That doesn't sound like their packing at all.

WilliamM2

It is their packaging, They came in the original box. The RTi line of that era had no foam in the box, just a piece of crdboard between the speaker. A friend has some RTi38's, and that is exactly how his were packed. This thread also confirms it:

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26261&highlight=tweeter+rti38

dragon1952

Ebay rocks overall. Yeah, they've become a big greedy business and there are a few bad sellers but overall the selection of items , prices and ease makes it a pretty awesome place to buy and sell.

faster100

E-bay doesn't suck because ya got outbid or didn't get the best deal... it sucks "sometimes" because of bad sellers/buyers.. Luckily i have never been screwed buying something, selling, far as i'm concerned lately e-bay sucks because of bad buyers.. and in one month, i'm coming up on 7 years selling and buying on e-bay, FWIW its been pretty good

VR3

Polks packaging has ALWAYS**** sucked for the RTi line! ALWAYS.

The RTi70's packaging is the WORST packaging I have EVER seen and I have seen some shoddy packaging from EBay experiences...

Whoever thought of packaging a 45 pound speaker with two 1" thick foam ends... (JUST ENDS)... the sides, front were up for destruction and often those foam ends would break... ugh!

As for EBay sucking... I ALWAYS doctor the pictures of any item I plan on buying... I brighten them up - enhance them... negative image... anything to bring out any blemishes a darker image may hide. Negative imaging can bring out ANY defect on an item most of the time unless it is a really shoddy camera.

reeltrouble1

My RT28i arrived new from Crutchfield in perfect condition.

You can contact Paypal for dispute especially since the speakers do not work, it takes a long time, the way I got them to do anything was disputing the charge on my credit card, Paypal never responded to Visa, so after 30 days my CC company removed the charge. Paypal then deducted the amount from the seller's account which pissed him to high heaven. I had sent the player to paypal, he called me all kind of names and threats, (( I was skeered)). You need to send the speakers back to either paypal or the seller. Preferrably Paypal I would think.

You can also sue in small claims court. You will likely win, cuz he is not even going to show. You can get a judgement. He might not pay, but then it can be placed on his credit report, which as we know good folks dont like.

Like others I only use CP and Audiogon now for audio gear.

RT1

WilliamM2

I thought of disputing the charges, but I am waiting to see what the seller does.

Today his attitude improved, and he is offering a partial refund to fix the speakers. I believe the tweeter is about $60 (anyone know? Polks closed for the weekend). So I tolhim I would need the cost of the tweeter + $35 off for the damaged cabinet. That would be $95, which is exaclt half the selling price, so I doubt he'll go for it, but I am waiting for a reply.

As far as the Rotel amp, I put it back together after painting the top case. It looks damn good, the photo makes the paint look uneven, but it doesn't look that way to the naked eye:

WilliamM2

Well the seller just responded, he is offering $50 refund, or he wants me to ship them to him, and he will only refund the money if the claim is approved. If it is denied he will ship them back. He also will not refund the original shipping, although with claims I have had with UPS, they refund the shipping as well.

I believe it's time to call VISA. I wasn't sure if you could do that on PayPal purchases, thanks reeltrouble.

Should I even bother with a PayPal dispute, or should I just call VISA?

WilliamM2

Hmmm....just noticed that he has changed his ebay feedback to private. Wonder why.

dragon1952

WilliamM2 wrote:

Hmmm....just noticed that he has changed his ebay feedback to private. Wonder why.

So your negative feedback won't show when he doesn't come through for you Good luck though

gwh

Those were my speakers in the thread you linked to.
File a claim now with Paypal, they will debit his account for the total amount while they look into the matter.
You will most likely win this dispute and have your money refunded in a few weeks.
If you agree to wait on the insurance payment you will be waiting a very long time because the insurance company, the shipper, and UPS will run this guy around in circles hoping he will go away. It looks like he’s acting kind of flaky and probably won’t pursue the matter with them and then try to screw you over way down the road.

I was the shipper in the below case, I did not try to get over on the buyer, hell I didn’t even know there was a problem for like three weeks after I had shipped the speakers. Buyer got his cash back quick from Paypal, I had to wait forever to get mine.

Here are some e-mail exchanges I had with UPS and Staples, it’s kind of long but you will get an idea of what your seller will be facing.


11-12-2004
Q: Exactly what is going on with my shipment? Evidently the
recipient received damaged goods and now the package is setting up at
Staples where it originated. I?ve called Staples and I?ve called UPS and
both want to point fingers at each other, act clueless, and don?t want to
give me any useful information.

A: Thank you for your inquiry. We apologize for the inconvenience
caused in this matter. UPS has notified the shipper of the results
for this claim. UPS claims are settled with the shipper of record
only. You will need to follow up with the shipper of record for
final resolution. If the shipper has any questions about the
claim, they will need to contact UPS directly.

Please note, as the package was shipped via STAPLES they are
considered the shipper of record.



And then.....
SEVERAL PHONE CALLS TO SOME **** NAMED NIKKI who represented Staple insurance.




12-8-2004
Q: I delivered my speakers to Staples for shipment via UPS in their factory
box with all the factory packing material, purchased insurance incase
something went wrong, which it did, and now it seems like I’m getting
the runaround. The last time I talked to the customer service rep. (Nikki)
was well over a week ago, and at that time she was working on getting
someone to come out and take a look at the damage.
I’m still waiting.


A: Dear Mr. Hargrove,

Thank you for taking the time to write in regarding the UPS claim you have
filed. I have done some investigation into this and UPS has initially
denied the first claim. I have had our claims group reopen this claim and
try to get UPS to take a second look at it to get it paid. If you need
anymore information on this claim please give our claims group a call at
800-797-5924.

Thanks,

Owen Phipps
Office of the President

THEN I WAS HANDED OVER TO SOME CHICK NAMED JENNIFER from Staples.
A few phone calls in here.

12-?-2004
E-mailed requested pics of damage

12-16-2004
Q: Hello,
It's been almost two weeks since I sent the pics you requested of my damaged speakers.
I would really appreciate an update on my claim.

A: I” am trying to get this resolved. The insurance agent working on this has not returned my calls so I have emailed him w/ this. Sorry about the delay and hopefully we can get the resolved soon. Thanks and have great day

1-5-2005
Q: Hello again,
Any new information on my claim that began almost two months ago?
Refresher:
Claim originally denied for lack of appropriate/adequate packing material (Speakers were packed in OE box with OE packing material).
On 12-3-2004 was told in a phone conversation with you that you had spoken to the insurance agent handling this claim, and he/she had stated the original claim was denied because there was no damage to the speakers when they were inspected at my customers location. At that time, after the contradicting
reasons for claim denial were brought to light, you requested that I e-mail pictures of the severely damaged speakers and shipping container to your location so that you could forward these images on to the ins. agent.
On 12-16-2004 I contacted you via e-mail to inquire about the status of the claim and you replied with:
“ I” am trying to get this resolved. The insurance agent working on this has not returned my calls so I have emailed him w/ this. Sorry about the delay and hopefully we can get the resolved soon. Thanks and have great day”.
Thank You for your help in this matter. I look forward to your reply, and hopefully a favorable resolution to this claim in the very near future.
Gary Hargrove

A: I have been sending emails and calling the insurance company about the dispute I just sent another email to them. I cant do anymore than what I am already doing so as soon as I hear from them I will call you. thanks

1-5-2005
I have spoke with the insurance agent on this and he never received the pictures that emailed him. He stated that their email server is not big enough to email all the pics at the same time and I did not know this. So if you could send me the pictures again please I will forward the pictures one at a time to make sure he does get them and he said if he don’t he will email me. Sorry about this and I do apologize this has taken so long. Thank you


1-14-2005
Hi this Jennifer w/ staples claim center and your claim has been overturned if you could please fax in your Staples ship center receipt and a proof of value of the item that was damaged to show what it would cost to replace it. You can fax that to 1866-431-3891 and have your claim # on the faxes. Thank you







2-11-2005 From Staples
We just received UPS payment on the 7th of this month so you should be getting a check anytime






I finally got my cash about a week after the final e-mail was received.

WilliamM2

[HTML]Contact BOTH visa and paypal. Cover all bases.[/HTML]

According to PayPal, if I involve my credit card company, they will immediatly cancel any dispute filed with them, and it will be up the credit card company for any reimbursement.

gwh,
3 months for reimbursment? Believe it or not, you were lucky. I was in charge of shipping for two years where I work when I first started there. We never had a single claim approved, unless the package was completely lost, and we ship over 200 packages a day. Imagine how they treat the little guy.

hydrobud

here is a helpful tool if the seller has to many feedbacks to go through.and just because it says 100% feedback does'nt neccessarily mean that is the case.you'll see what i mean when you use toolhaus.

gwh

I was in charge of shipping for two years where I work when I first started there. We never had a single claim approved, unless the package was completely lost,

WOW! :eek: Two years as the honcho and no claim approval
You must have been getting kickbacks from brown.

WilliamM2

Well, I went to PayPal to file a dispute, and I noticed there is a $25 fee, and maximum reimbursement is $175, and shipping is not reimbursed. So if I file with them, they will deduct $25 for shipping, $25 dollars for the fee, and I will probably have to pay $20 or so to ship the speakers back. So I will be out $70 minimum! Some protection they offer...

I think I'll just call VISA and get the whole thing back, although I will still probably have to ship the speakers back to somebody.