How much better is best Polk or HSU or SVS than Velodyne DPS-12?

trevize

Read many people on this forum trumpet HSU and SVS subwoofers. Never heard them. I have the Velodyne and it sound fine to me. Put the crossover at 50 Hz with RTi12's front, CSi5 center, Boston A-150's surround. RTi12's set to Large, others set to Small. Using only Pioneer 1015 for HT for DVDs and stereo for CDs. Would best Polk or HSU or SVS subwoofer sound appreciably better (tighter) in an apartment room sized 15 by 20 feet? Who thinks it is worth the greater expense?

Note, I set front and center speakers to 0db and surrounds to +3db. Distance from fronts and center to listening position is 10 feet, and 7 feet from surrounds. I think putting Pioneer crossover to 80 Hz would waste nice sound from woofers on RTi12's which can go down to 30 Hz since their built-in cross-over is 120 Hz. Does that sound right?

Any help appreciated.

Pioneer 1015
Polk RTi12's - front
Polk CSi5 - front center
Boston A-150's - surround
Velodyne DPS-12 - subwoofer

Foz

What is good about SVS and HSU is they are internet companies without the huge overhead of mass market subs. No middle man paychecks to worry about. So, you should expect to get more for less. I own an SVS-PB12+/2. I use it in a 15x15 room. Crossover points are something you may want to test yourself. However, Lucas (THX guy) thinks cross over needs to happen at 80 hz. for movies and music. The problem with running mains full freq with a sub is you may start to cancel out the bass instead of increase it. (Run all speakers set to small with a sub). But, if you prefer 2 channel music with your full freq Polks you can always turn the sub off. Turn the sub back on for movies fer sure.

If your happy with your Velo I don't think you should feel you're missing out on anything if you don't sell it and get an HSU or SVS. Blow up the Velo first. That's my 2 cents.

Read what SVS has to say about proper set up on their web site for a more authoritative answer.

cfrizz

Hello and welcome!

If you are content with your sub, then there is no reason to go out and buy another one.

trevize

Blow up Velo first?
A joke?
Lucas says use 80Hz crossover for THX, but I have only 5.1 setup, no THX.
RTi12's woofers' range is 30-120Hz so putting all speakers to "Large" and crossover to 80Hz would cripple its woofers giving them range of only 80-120Hz.
As you said, only RTi12s enabled for music.
After listening some, it sounds good enough to me.

I will keep the Velo since got it for good price of $423.
Thanks for suggestions.

VR3

For movies - 80HZ* - that is Lucas's standard for MOVIES.

For musics, its rather personal - it can range anywhere between 30 and 60hz...

aaharvel

Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote:

For movies - 80HZ* - that is Lucas's standard for MOVIES.

For musics, its rather personal - it can range anywhere between 30 and 60hz...

right on Sid. 60hz for me. Since music is more important to me than movies I just keep it there. 80hz is just way to damn boomy.

Larry Chanin

trevize wrote:

Read many people on this forum trumpet HSU and SVS subwoofers. Never heard them. I have the Velodyne and it sound fine to me. Put the crossover at 50 Hz with RTi12's front, CSi5 center, Boston A-150's surround. RTi12's set to Large, others set to Small. Using only Pioneer 1015 for HT for DVDs and stereo for CDs. Would best Polk or HSU or SVS subwoofer sound appreciably better (tighter) in an apartment room sized 15 by 20 feet? Who thinks it is worth the greater expense?

Note, I set front and center speakers to 0db and surrounds to +3db. Distance from fronts and center to listening position is 10 feet, and 7 feet from surrounds. I think putting Pioneer crossover to 80 Hz would waste nice sound from woofers on RTi12's which can go down to 30 Hz since their built-in cross-over is 120 Hz. Does that sound right?

Any help appreciated.

Pioneer 1015
Polk RTi12's - front
Polk CSi5 - front center
Boston A-150's - surround
Velodyne DPS-12 - subwoofer

Hi,

Although the HSU and SVS are excellent subwoofers, so is your DSP-12 and if you are happy I see no reason to change. All these companies specialize in subwoofers, I don't think that Polk subwoofers are in the same league.

There's nothing wrong with setting things to your personal preferences. Apparently you perfer more aggressive surrounds. My preferences is to balance the levels on all channels.

Likewise there's nothing wrong with setting your mains to large. However you won't be able to reproduce deep bass sounds as well as setting them to small and redirecting the low bass to your sub. The reason is quite simple, your mains lower -3dB point is 30 Hz and your sub's lower -3dB point is 25 Hz. You need not set your crossovers to 80 Hz if you don't want to, you might try experimenting with lower frequencies.

For example, I use Polk SDA-1C's for my mains they have a lower -3dB point in the mid 30's, but my Velodyne DD-15's lower -3dB point is 15 hz. Therefore, I have my mains set to small with the mains and subwoofer crossed over at 60 Hz. This takes the deep bass load off my mains and hands the task off to my Velodyne which is more capable of handling deep bass. The mains can now do a better job of reproducing the remaining frequencies since head room is now increased by shifting the load.

Larry

mantis

80hz shouldn't be boomy. If it is something isn't calibrated correctly.

On the other hand, if your speakers are well able to carry a 60hz and up signal, then setting your sub to 60 will yeild good performance.

Calibrating correctly is key

Dan

aaharvel

my 4's and co. do a semi-decent job at 60hz, so i let them stretch their legs a bit.

trevize

Does setting the Mains to "Small" make them play the frequencies above the crossover point louder than if set to "Large" or at the same volume but with less distortion?

What do you mean by "they will have more headroom"? I don't understand.

Larry Chanin

trevize wrote:

Does setting the Mains to "Small" make them play the frequencies above the crossover point louder than if set to "Large" or at the same volume but with less distortion?

What do you mean by "they will have more headroom"? I don't understand.

Hi,

I believe the answer is Yes to both questions.

Headroom is defined as:
HEADROOM: the margin of safety (usually expressed in decibels) between nominal operating levels and a signal-overload condition.

When your mains are set to large your amplifier or receiver must supply the power to drive all frequencies sent to the main channels. For the lowest frequencies that means devoting a large portion of the amp's total available capacity to driving the main's low bass driver beyond it's design limits. When you set your mains to small, the lowest frequencies are redirected to the subwoofer that supplies it's own power, and that subwoofer is designed to handle low frequencies with lower distortion than your mains. By freeing up amplifier capacity to the mains there is more power available to drive the frequencies above the crossover setting, meaning that those higher frequencies should now be able to play louder before the onset of distortion (clipping) than when the mains were set to large.

Larry

Foz

trevize wrote:

Blow up Velo first?
A joke?
Lucas says use 80Hz crossover for THX, but I have only 5.1 setup, no THX.
RTi12's woofers' range is 30-120Hz so putting all speakers to "Large" and crossover to 80Hz would cripple its woofers giving them range of only 80-120Hz.
As you said, only RTi12s enabled for music.
After listening some, it sounds good enough to me.

I will keep the Velo since got it for good price of $423.
Thanks for suggestions.

By "Blow Up" I meant use it till it needs replaced. SVS is an internet company and is over hyped on message boards. (Negatives get censored). Don't get me wrong. They are fine subs. I own one myself. But the sound doesn't match the internet hype.

MrNightly

Foz wrote:

SVS is an internet company and is over hyped on message boards. (Negatives get censored). Don't get me wrong. They are fine subs. I own one myself. But the sound doesn't match the internet hype.

Any responses to this??!!??

I am looking at getting a SVS Box sub myself... simply due to the great hype. Anyone have an educated response to Foz?

VR3

SVS is a great subwoofer company.

When set up right, they offer tight, accurate bass - bass that is explosive for movies and calm and clean enough for music.

The PB10 has been reported to suffer from resonances in the large box that cause it to be boomy. COF at S&V did a review on this and explained this problem in detail.. with charts and everything that everyone loves.

I also think their other box subs suffer from the same problem, I just dont see how a large box, regardless of wall thickness can NOT resonate - especially when a high powered driver is shifting everything else...

Monoque enclosures is just another word for poorly braced. An unbraced panel is just that - unbraced and allows resonances..

To me, SVS offers alot more bang for the buck that Velodyne ever will, or any brand for that matter. Its the size that seems to offend people - along with their success.

How can thousands upon thousands of audio enthusiast be wrong? I mean really...

SVS gets the hype they get for ALOT of reasons, and one of them is because it isnt hype.

Ron Temple

I recently heard a PB10 in a large room 3700^3 in a very nice system of matched MTMs crossed at 80. There was nothing boomy about it. Transparent when the music called for it and just super clean. For movies it was astounding for it's size in that room.

I like other subs as well, but SVS is not hype.

Foz

Ron Temple wrote:

I recently heard a PB10 in a large room 3700^3 in a very nice system of matched MTMs crossed at 80. There was nothing boomy about it. Transparent when the music called for it and just super clean. For movies it was astounding for it's size in that room.

I like other subs as well, but SVS is not hype.

MrNightly, Can you find someone with an SVS who can demo it for you? Ron, would have you buy one with out hearing one yourself. Keep in mind. He said he heard one. Look at his sig. He has a Cadence XSub 12.

I own one. I'm going to tell you to compare before you buy. (If you can). There is a listing of SVS owners who are willing to demo their subs somewhere on the net. Perhaps you can do a search and find someone willing to demo it for you.

It is possible to try an SVS for 45 days then return it. Just make yourself aware of your shipping cost before you do.

Ron Temple

Hold on there Foz, I was giving my subjective impressions, that's it. I've owned a Velo DPS10 which is a very nice sub too. I went with the Cadence based on some recs and numbers offered by Craig Chase. For the money it can't be beat. I've listened to a VTF2.2 as well. Based on my impressions, I like the PB10 above all of them. I ordered a 20-39+ and my 2 XSubs are going to my sons, so everyone gets an upgrade for Xmas.

I like your idea about auditioning though. That's what convinced me. I'm also a huge Velodyne fan. They have different features, business model and design goals. Hsu, Outlaw and Rocket make great ID subs too. Listen to them all if possible. There's no wrong choice. Maybe SVS won't work for you. It's going to for me and it ain't hype.

crmfmly

I have a Velodyne VRP-1200 set at 60hz and it sounds wonderful. Should I have my crossover set on my receiver (Onkyo TX-SR503) set to 60hz as well? Because I do right now. And it doesn't sound too bad in my living room.

Tour2ma

No...one or the other unless you are using your AVR's LFE out to the sub (which likely bypasses its internal cross-over), you are double filtering.

Meanwhile... lottta good posts here.

Agree with Dan that an 80 Hz x-over point should not equate to "boomy". But I'd think the cause is more likely to do with room gain/ location than the x-over point choice or calibration.

More commonly the issue with crossing over at 80 is localization of the source. Most folk can't locate sources below 100 Hz, but some can.

Large or small setting is a matter of taste, but on balance creates more potential issues than benefits, IMO. In addition to the increased amp duty (covered nicely above), adding bass radiators does invite additional room node issues (also nicely covered). Beauty here though is you can try both, but do take the time to calibrate both set ups.

And IMO SVS ain't hype... although I'm surprised that a PB-10 could impress in a 3700 cu ft room. I made a blind SVS buy on the advice of ol' Dr. Spec and Tom at SVS, and have no regrets. That said, if an audition is possible, it's always better to hear for yourself.

PSOVLSK

I think it's a double-edged sword. MANY people talk about how great SVS is and some people get tired of hearing about SVS. But...the reason SVS owners recommend them so much is because they know first hand what great subs they are and they want others to experience the same satisfaction that they have.

As to whether or not SVS is hype, how about a basketball analogy? LeBron James was probably the most hyped player ever entering the NBA. When he entered the league, I wanted nothing but failure for him, but now I have to say he has lived up to (if not exceeded) the hype. Based on all the positive posts from SVS owners, I'd say they too have lived up to the hype:D

I know, it's my first post ever and I throw out some crazy basketball analogy:o I've been lurking for quite a while and finally took the time to register...and the "SVS hype" quote made me think, "If not for the hype, I wouldn't own my PB12 Plus/2...and I'd be missing out on soooo much in my movies."

Tour2ma

Finally flushed you out, huh?

Buy a vowel for that screen name, pull up a chair and stay a while...

Welcome, to the Club...

PolkThug

Foz wrote:

But the sound doesn't match the internet hype.

Foz, what don't you like about your SVS-PB12+/2? Have you run a frequency sweep in your room to check for nulls?

John

I have a SVS PB12+2 now for about five years or less which is nice and the other day at Good will, can you believe it, I found an older Velodyne eight incher i think it is CST model which went for between three and four hundred dollars some years back; I picked it up for only 29.00 dollars. What an absolute steal. I use it in conjunction with my SVS and it sounds stunning to say the least. It gets that upper bass kick in the chest sound while the SVS does lower and I suppose where the Velodyne does. Best of luck.
jtmj

John

I also have the Polk towering RT20009P's which are nice. I put the base on zero and use just the tweaters and let my SVS PB12+2 and Velodyne eight incher do the rest. Then also from time to time in the past I have engaged the towering woofers also. I use Emotiva 2 and 5 channel amps and a emotiva umc-1 pre pro to run everything. I am not dialing it in as well as I would like to. Not that savvy when it comes to this part of music. I have a friend who always said that one does not need elaborate equipment rather setting up the speakers properly and the room has it.

jinjuku

MrNightly wrote: »

Any responses to this??!!??

I am looking at getting a SVS Box sub myself... simply due to the great hype. Anyone have an educated response to Foz?

Certainley: Foz is being disingenuous.

SVS has a stellar reputation on enthusiast forums all over. Is the poster maintaining that all forums all over delete negative SVS talk?

That is the question I would like Foz to answer.

heiney9

An almost 6 year old thread and FOZ hasn't been on here in almost 5 years, doubt you'll get an answer.............and WTF cares?

H9

jinjuku

Chill, some one revived the thread and I responded to a post...

Ron Temple

It's odd reading old posts from yourself. At least I wasn't a totally ignorant fool and still agree (mostly) with what I said over 5 years ago.

MADGSF

Just adding a post so I can read it when next we open this time capsule.

:biggrin:

Kamzu

What do you guys think of the Polk Micropro 4000 as a subwoofer?