No pre-amp at all??

2

Comments

  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited November 2005
    I've always been under the impression that an amp is always full out and the pre regulates the amps output. Unless the amp has gain controls, like both of my amps, and they are not turned all the way up.

    I'm probably under the wrong impression, though :rolleyes: :p
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • audiobliss
    audiobliss Posts: 12,518
    edited November 2005
    ^^ That's how I've always understood it.
    George Grand wrote: »
    Jstas wrote: »
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
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  • W WALDECKER
    W WALDECKER Posts: 900
    edited November 2005
    ND13 wrote:
    I've always been under the impression that an amp is always full out and the pre regulates the amps output. Unless the amp has gain controls, like both of my amps, and they are not turned all the way up.

    I'm probably under the wrong impression, though :rolleyes: :p
    a few months ago i ran my CDP directly to my monoblocks and the volume level was not anywhere near what the amps are capable of so i think the amount of volume is directly tied to the output capability of the source component.thanks....WCW III
    Rogue Audio stereo 100 tube amplifier - Lector Zoe preamplifier with 6H30 pi's
    .Audience AU24SE speaker and ic cables- Chord Qutest DAC - Black Cat Silverstar II 75ohm digital cable-Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Signature system with large bass cabinets to accommodate 10" Seas magnesium woofers.2xhmpsuownoj.jpg
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  • audiobliss
    audiobliss Posts: 12,518
    edited November 2005
    Ahh, I think I just figured it out. When you turn on the amps with no preamp or with the preamp off, the amp/s are wide open. The preamp then changes the volume by cutting back on the signal going to the amps. The preamp either lessens the signal or adds gain to the signal from the source, thus changing the volume. However, when you hook a source up directly to the amps, you have no control over the gain and thus the volume. The output voltage of the source dictates the volume.
    George Grand wrote: »
    Jstas wrote: »
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    In Use
    PS3, Yamaha CDR-HD1300, Plex, Amazon Fire TV Gen 2
    Pioneer Elite VSX-52, Parasound HCA-1000A
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    Epson 8700UB
    In Storage
    [Home Audio]
    Rotel RCD-02, Yamaha KX-W900U, Sony ST-S500ES, Denon DP-7F
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII, Parasound P/HP-850, ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Klipsch RF-35, RB-51ii
    [Car Audio]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP, Memphis 16-MCA3004, Boston Acoustic RC520
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  • ward91
    ward91 Posts: 338
    edited November 2005
    oh i cant do that
    my amps direct inputs still have the volume contrler on them , i once accedentely put the outputs in the inputs and then there was no volume . (made me jump wen i went to put on a movi ) lucky it still works.
    ELECTRONICS
    arcam cd93
    linn wakonda
    MC2 MC450
    Teac ud h01 DAC


    SPEAKERS
    Tannoy DC6 t se .
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  • ward91
    ward91 Posts: 338
    edited November 2005
    lanion wrote:
    No preamp would basically mean everything plays at what would be 0db on a preamp... right?

    yes that is so isnt it?
    ELECTRONICS
    arcam cd93
    linn wakonda
    MC2 MC450
    Teac ud h01 DAC


    SPEAKERS
    Tannoy DC6 t se .
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited November 2005
    My understanding is that if the source component (Cd Player, Tuner, etc) has enough output to drive the amp to full capacity, then it will; but, if the amp requires more source signal than the source can provide to attain full output, that's when an active preamp would be needed to give the necessary boost (gain) to allow the amp to reach full output. I've just never heard of running a line source directly into an amp at full output before. I'd be scared as hell to hit the "play" button, thinking my speakers were about to be sent into orbit.

    Then again, I could be full of ****. :D
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited November 2005
    This is more the idea that you set the volume to the correct level for some loud rock and tell yourself you can not change it. Problem there is that if I had done it that way I would have ended up changing it and would never have experienced what I did. That's why I suggested removing the pre.

    How about this, put some good lively rock on and enjoy it for awhile. Wherever you end up at with the volume control, leave it there for the next few listening sessions and don't change it no matter what.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited November 2005
    Sounds like a good way to damage your hearing. :eek:

    Shack has it right, sit down, shut up, and listen to the damn music!!!! ;):D
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • beardog03
    beardog03 Posts: 5,550
    edited November 2005
    alot od cdp`s have an adjustable output on them..
    Cary SLP-98L F1 DC Pre Amp (Jag Blue)
    Parasound HCA-3500
    Cary Audio V12 amp (Jag Red)
    Polk Audio Xm Reciever (Autographed by THE MAN Himself) :cool:
    Magnum Dynalab MD-102 Analog Tuna
    Jolida JD-100 CDP
    Polk Audio LSi9 Speaks (ebony)
    SVS PC-Ultra Sub
    AQ Bedrock Speaker Cables (Bi-Wired)
    MIT Shotgun S1 I/C`s
    AQ Black Thunder Sub Cables
    PS Audio Plus Power Cords
    Magnum Dynalab ST-2 FM Antenna
    Sanus Cherry wood Speak Stands
    Adona AV45CS3 / 3 Tier Rack (Black /Gold)

    :cool:
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited November 2005
    cfrizz wrote:
    Shack has it right
    I live in a house with three women. This is a phrase I am unaccustomed to hearing from a woman. I need to savor this moment as it may never happen again.
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • BlueMDPicker
    BlueMDPicker Posts: 7,569
    edited November 2005
    madmax wrote:
    Originally Posted by madmax
    This lack of control enlightened me somewhat.
    PolkThug wrote:
    You should try a ball gag and love cuffs.
    :D:D
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited November 2005
    Max--

    Ok...I get it. Play all my music loud, I do that ALL THE TIME....You're right it is cool...LOL
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited November 2005
    :eek: :eek: :eek: :D:D:D WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
    shack wrote:
    I live in a house with three women. This is a phrase I am unaccustomed to hearing from a woman. I need to savor this moment as it may never happen again.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited November 2005
    Cathy
    I think you made shack-daddy's day!
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited November 2005
    LOL! I guess so!
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • ward91
    ward91 Posts: 338
    edited November 2005
    on my AVR o dB is good its loud enought but not distorted, but my neigbur spent over £700 on a in car system and his -20 dB was starting to badly distort wheras i listen to mine at about -20 to -10 dB most of the time
    ELECTRONICS
    arcam cd93
    linn wakonda
    MC2 MC450
    Teac ud h01 DAC


    SPEAKERS
    Tannoy DC6 t se .
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited November 2005
    The lack of control was the same as when you listen to music in a club, stadium or someones basement band.

    Sorry, but I've got to disagree with this. Most every live event I've been to, the sound is HEAVILY managed to include the volume.

    The volume of the record without attenuation, IMO, is heavily dependent on engineering so I'm not with the 'it gets you closer to live' line of thought.

    Now, to remove a link in the chain and all that particular piece brings to the party, sure. However, I've got to have control of the volume for a myriad of reasons.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited November 2005
    The point (which everyone seems to be missing), is that YOU have no control over it.
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited November 2005
    No, I get that but I don't see the higher fidelity aspect in that.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • audiobliss
    audiobliss Posts: 12,518
    edited November 2005
    I think it's more the fact that since you have no control over it, you soon forget about it and start focussing on the sound more, instead of the volume.
    George Grand wrote: »
    Jstas wrote: »
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    In Use
    PS3, Yamaha CDR-HD1300, Plex, Amazon Fire TV Gen 2
    Pioneer Elite VSX-52, Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-82ii, RC-62ii, RS-42ii, RW-10d
    Epson 8700UB
    In Storage
    [Home Audio]
    Rotel RCD-02, Yamaha KX-W900U, Sony ST-S500ES, Denon DP-7F
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII, Parasound P/HP-850, ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Klipsch RF-35, RB-51ii
    [Car Audio]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP, Memphis 16-MCA3004, Boston Acoustic RC520
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited November 2005
    Maybe I'm different but if the music is not at a level that I want it to be at, I don't want to listen.

    Different strokes for left handed people, no big deal.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited November 2005
    Troy (and others), it wasn't suggested as a permenant 'fix', just something to try. A release of control. It wasn't a campaign to 'get rid of your preamps, you dont need them', or a poll to see what people thought about preamps - it was an excercise in audio, that's all.

    Try it.
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited November 2005
    audiobliss wrote:
    I think it's more the fact that since you have no control over it, you soon forget about it and start focussing on the sound more, instead of the volume.


    FINALLY! SOMEONE GETS IT. :)

    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited November 2005
    I've got the afternoon off and noone at the hacienda, so when I get home, I'm gonna throw on DSOM and take the MLP out of the chain and see how it does.

    Nevermind, re-read the post...2V or something like that.. :)
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited November 2005
    I didn't really think it was a campaign to get rid of pres....I was just posting my thoughts about the premise..

    No biggie

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited November 2005
    RuSsMaN wrote:
    A release of control. Try it.

    Hmmm...

    Me personally, I'll stick to taking the preamp out of the circuit. :D

    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited November 2005
    Stay tuned for my next experiment: Audio systems with interconnects, speaker wires and power cables disconnected. I expect a lot of noise to go away. :D
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • cmy330go
    cmy330go Posts: 2,341
    edited November 2005
    madmax wrote:
    Stay tuned for my next experiment: Audio systems with interconnects, speaker wires and power cables disconnected. I expect a lot of noise to go away. :D
    madmax

    I tried this once. The W.A.F. is OUTRAGEOUS! :D
    HT
    Mits WD-65737, DirecTV, Oppo DV-970HD, XBOX ONE, Yamaha RX-A1030, Parasound Halo A23, Rotel RB-985, Music Hall MMF-7, Parasound PPH-100, LSi-15, LSi-C, LSi-FX, LSi-7, PSW-1000, Monster HTS2600

    2 CH
    Parasound Halo P3, Parasound Halo A21, Sutherland Ph.D, VPI Classic 3 w/ 3D arm & Soundsmith Aida Cartridge, Arcam CD72T, B&W 802 S3, Monster HTS2500,
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited November 2005
    No biggie Troy, I was 'just sayin' broham.

    Yeah Noel, I've got some CD8b manuals somewhere, I'll see what it is exactly. It was much louder than the Cal Audio running them without a DAC - through the DAC it made no difference which CDP was hooked up.

    Chuck, I was going to suggest running with all the tubes removed - but you might be onto something with the cables.
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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