Beware: New User, Dumb Questions

saganized

Uh, I posted this on the Flea Market forum too, so forgive me for that. "Here is better."

Also...please bear with me. I'm a new user and I'm going to ask some dumb questions.

I'm infatuated with the new Polk Audio LSi-15's. I've owned a pair of RT-8T's for 12 years. But considering the new technology tucked into those gorgeous cabinets, the LSi-15's must sound as breathtaking as they look.

Problem is...the price (isn't price usually "the problem" with everything?). I'm thinking the dealer markup is on the umm...high side. :rolleyes: Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm not. I'd like to find out.

Someone please educate me on this, since I may not have been educating myself very well.

a. I'm estimating the "dealer cost" on the LSi-15's to be around $1,000-1,100. Is this in the ballpark, or am I way off base? I'm thinking I'm pretty close.

b. I'd like to persuade a CA or West Coast dealer--ANY of them--to lower the price to $1,300 or less (including tax, but excluding shipping, because I would pick them up myself). That would still be a ~20% markup, which seems fair to me.

So, am I way out of line here? I hope not. I'm just Joe Consumer, trying to be a "smart shopper" and get the "very best price" on a loudspeaker I'm sure anyone would be very happy with for years to come.

Polk Audio...I love your loudspeakers. Only problem I have is allowing dealers to "name their own price." Not that my negotiating skills are any good, of course! Believe me, I'd love to buy a new pair of LSi-15's, if only I could find the "right dealer"....

Thanks (and apologies) for letting me air some frustration. I hope someone here can clue me in on whatever I may be missing.

mjk91383

welcome to the forum!

if you're looking for a deal on some LSi's, you might want to check out sounddistributors.com before buying elsewhere.

i've purchased speakers from them twice and even a receiver about a year ago. their customer service is first class, and their prices are hard to beat. all of my items have arrived in perfect, A-grade condition.

if i remember correctly, they're located in las vagas. you might want to find some LSi dealers nearby and give the 15's a listen. then i would find out the total cost and i would compare that with the online costs.

...good luck!

joe

mantis

everybody want's a good deal.
I personally think you get what you pay for.Getting a good deal is just a bonus.
the Lsi15's are nice speaker's.I only had one demo with them in less then ideal condition's.They still sounded clean and detailed.For what Polk is asking retail, thats not bad for what you get.Polk has alway's let the market for bang for the buck.
Beware of online shopping.........don't get burned.Talk to other guy's in here where they shop online with good result's.I for one do not shop online for anything.I bought a couple of hard to find DvD's and thats it.

saganized

Thanks for the feedback. I get the impression--from a lack of responses to my post--other people also haven't been very successful in finding lower prices. That's sad to me, because while I love the speakers, I just can't afford them at $800+ each.

Joe, I've looked at three Internet sales sites including www.sounddistributors.com. Unfortunately, they're "unauthorized dealers," and therefore I understand the original factory warranty would not be honored by Polk.

I'm also not very keen to having the "factory serial numbers removed and replaced by our own serial numbers," a practice mentioned on their sites (in the small print). Your post got me curious, though:

a. Did you get full factory warranties with your equipment, or did you get the "altered serial number" treatment?

b. Did you ever have any experiences returning merchandise to them, or returning them for any service? If so, how'd it go?

Mantis, I understand your point, too. Certainly, Polk charges their dealers reasonable prices. I have no doubt about that. I am very aware of Polk quality. As I said in another post, I've owned a pair of RT-8T's for 12 years and I think they're great.

The point I'm trying to make is that dealer markup is NOT a "good deal." While I understand dealers wanting to make a few bucks, I think a markup of nearly 70% (if my estimate of $1,000-1,100 was accurate) is outrageous.

I wouldn't mind paying 20% over cost for LSi-15's. Instead, what I seem to hear is more like, "Hey, dude. I'm the only authorized Polk dealer around. You either pay my price, or good luck." That just doesn't seem like good business to me.

I appreciate the advice you both gave. I suppose I'll continue trying to find an "authorized dealer" who's willing to sacrifice some profit in order to win a happy and loyal customer.

Yeah, I know...pipe dream. lol

Lee Bailey

I thought that the prices shown here on this site show what the MSRP is? In that case, there should be little or no markup to pay. These aren't cars, there are no special 'dealer' things to do to them, or does keeping them clean count?

mantis

Let me fill you in on a little retail secret..........you alway's pay for a big mark up.Thats how people make money.Everything you buy is marked up.Unless you can buy thing's factory direct,you pay the middle man all the time, everyday and twice on sunday's.
Don't worry so much about the markup,you pay it all the time.
Now for the real question,can you afford to get into those speakers'????If not save your money, you will!!

OrangeToupee

I don't like the middle man, and avoid him as often as possible. Nothing personal against Mantis, or other like him, but why should I pay him a bunch of my money, when all I really want are the speakers?

saganized

Originally posted by Lee Bailey
I thought that the prices shown here on this site show what the MSRP is? In that case, there should be little or no markup to pay. These aren't cars, there are no special 'dealer' things to do to them, or does keeping them clean count?

Hi, Lee, thanks for replying.

Yes, I think the $869.95 (or $1,739.90 a pair) is what we'd call the Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP).

I found the speakers on www.sounddistributors.com and www.namebrandz.com (unauthorized dealers) for only $1,050. However, when I mentioned this to an authorized dealer, he remarked, "That's around cost. I don't see how they can stay in business for those prices."

Therefore, my "research" leads me to believe the actual cost for the authorized dealer is around $1,050-1,100.

For argument's sake, let's say dealer cost is $1,300. That's a difference of $439.90 a pair...and it's markup.

Now, I can't fault dealers for wanting to make a profit. What I do have trouble with is what I see as "excessive" dealer profit. I guess that's one of the things that makes America great...errr...the freedom to shop around? lol

saganized

Originally posted by mantis
Let me fill you in on a little retail secret..........you alway's pay for a big mark up.Thats how people make money.Everything you buy is marked up.Unless you can buy thing's factory direct,you pay the middle man all the time, everyday and twice on sunday's.
Don't worry so much about the markup,you pay it all the time.
Now for the real question,can you afford to get into those speakers'????If not save your money, you will!!

Well, yes, I do have $1,300.00. I also have $1,739.90.

But if the dealer paid $1,100, he should accept $1,300. That way, the dealer still profits, I will have a beautiful pair of Polk Audio loudspeakers, and there may even be peace in the Middle East.

Y'know what? The dealer may also end up selling a lot more speakers....

saganized

Originally posted by OrangeToupee
Why should I pay him (the middleman) a bunch of my money, when all I really want are the speakers?

Orange, I'm with you. My "local authorized dealer" says he's a "custom installer." Well, I don't need a custom installation. Sheesh, I've got a 12x15 living room. On the other hand, I would absolutely *love* a pair of new LSi-15's.

I must say this. Polk's taken a huge step in the right direction, as far as I'm concerned, making audiophile-quality loudspeakers "more affordable" for the masses. The LSi-15's are, I'm sure, a quantum leap above my RTA-8T's. And yes, the price is now much more within reach.

I simply wish the authorized dealer nearest me (maybe all of them?) wouldn't charge so much. I'm convinced that if consumers could buy LSi-15's for $1,200 a pair, you'd see two in every garage. Uhh...I mean living room.

Lee Bailey

If the manufacturer is listing a lower price than what I can find in the store, then that is just a plain ripoff. What bothers me is that these are 'authorized' dealers, who I would expect to sell the goods at the published price of the manufacturer or at a lower price, not higher. There is a disparity here in the pricing that does not make sense, middle man or not. Luckily, I can wait a long time before making this kind of purchase on a pair of speakers. BTW Saganized, the price online is $1050 for 1 speaker, not a pair, total price shipped is $2,298.00. So, even the online deal is higher than the MSRP.

shack

But if the dealer paid $1,100, he should accept $1,300.

Why? If you and the dealer negotiate a price and he accepts it then good but that has to be a mutually agreed upon price.

This is from experience....If a small business is operating on a 20% gross profit (sales minus cost of goods sold) they will not be a small business for long. They will be out of business. Even Walmart operates on a gross profit margin higher than 20%.

You can certainly get the speakers you want for less than you are willing to pay. Brandnames ($1,050/pr) and acousticsounddesign.com ($1,049/pr) are willing to sell you the speakers you want today! Just not at your terms. They are not authorized dealers. I would be willing to bet they never own the speakers they sell you. They take your order, find an authorized dealer that has bought quantity to take advantage of quantity price breaks and will sell at a couple of bucks over their cost to clear out some inventory, the item will be drop shipped to you and the etailer has made a nice profit for answering the phone and making a couple of calls. NO RISKS, NO INVENTORY COSTS, NO HANDING COSTS, NO INTEREST COSTS. A few bucks for a phone line and the salesman on commission gets a cut. And that is assuming you are getting A stock.

I like a deal too. But I understand that the brick and mortar shops need to make a profit to stay around. We could go to a true internet economy. There are several internet and direct to consumer audio and speaker companys out there. Outlaw Audio makes very good equipment. SVS, Adire and HSU Research make some excellent subs. Swan and Accend Accoustics will sell you speakers direct from their factory. But lets say you want to hear them. Wait...there is no place to do that unless you can find their factory. That doesn't mean they are not good...just you can't here them unless you know someone that has one. (I would be willing to bet that they have much more than a 20% markup over their costs.)

The point is....you have options....You can get the speakers at the price you are willing to pay. We can argue about the authorized vs non-authorized all day long (is it price fixing - restraint of trade - etc...). Polk and other mfgs. say that if you want a warranty you have to buy from whom they say. Do I like this...NO....but it is the the facts and it is legal and if you want a factory warranty you had better find an autorized dealer.

Like I said...I really like a deal...but sometimes you have to be willing to give up something to get it.

BTW Saganized, the price online is $1050 for 1 speaker, not a pair.

Lee check out www.brandnamez.com (their price listed at $525 per speaker)

Aaron

No offense, but I don't think you understand retail and how it works. Mantis is right on the money with his comments regarding retail. That's just how it is.

Aaron

saganized

Sorry, didn't mean to stir up the proverbial pot.

I only meant to voice an opinion, get some others' views, and see if anyone knew of any "authorized dealer bargains." Doesn't sound like it.

I'll wait and see if prices on LSi-15's come down. When and if they do, I'll buy.

Thanks all.

shack

saganized - I wasn't being critical of you. I really do like deals. I've bought $1,800 (MSRP) worth of audio gear in the last few months for arount $1,100 shipped. Some were closeouts like the rt55i and cs245i and others I negotioated with an online retailer for the best price (a Denon receiver). All of this was from authorized dealers. Find out what prices are out there and go talk to the authorized dealers and see if the want to "deal". Some do...some don't. Plus there are always sales and open box deals. One local hi end retailer has a "scratch and dent" sale from time to time. No real scratches and dents but its his way of giving goood customers a price break. Good luck on your search. I am looking for a good deal on the LSi9 myself.

P.S. Don't let us run you off - come back and post some more. We like having the pot stirred!

saganized

Thanks for the response, Shack. No, I didn't feel you were being overly critical. You had every right to be, of course. I can see you have strong feelings about keeping the authorized dealers in business, and I appreciate that. (Heck, maybe someday I'LL be an authorized dealer. lol)

I already began taking action about 5 days ago, and I think it pretty much follows the advice you gave me. Right after I learned the difference between "authorized" and "unauthorized," I asked Polk for a list of the closest authorized dealers to me here in CA. I was given a rather short list, however (only four). They replied there are "none" in Oregon and Nevada.

I'll write those dealers and ask them to give me their best price. I'll let them know up front what I can afford (that is, what I'm willing to pay). Hopefully, one will meet my price.

I'm really not asking them to do much...just order the speakers. I'll drive to their place and load the speakers in my car. They won't need to lift a finger, other than to do the ordering, and sign for the shipment. Pretty easy, I think? And they'll still make a bit of profit.

Please keep in mind, I don't aim to rip them off, or put them out of business, or even "hurt" their business. I'm just looking for the best possible deal, that's all.

Anyway, thanks again for your response. Sheesh, you know, when I bought my RTA-8T's, I went to a dealer in Colorado Springs (that was 1990). I wish there was one closer to Sacramento! And thanks for the "good luck;" I have a feeling I'll need a lil' bit of that. Cheers~

Lee Bailey

Thanks for the link, Shack! For that price, I don't know what's stopping someone from buying them if they have the money!