Rti better than Lsi FOR ROCK MUSIC

McLoki · October 2005

What we are saying is not that you have to have the most expensive amps, sources, interconnects, etc. to run the LSi series. It is just that if you do choose to upgrade any of those pieces you will be rewarded with better and better sound.

With most upgrades you will only hear a decent improvement when you upgrade the weakest link in the audio chain. With the LSi series of speakers you have to have some pretty serious gear before they become your weakest link so every upgrade you go through sounds like a big improvement.....

Michael

aaharvel · October 2005

sickicw wrote:

I am under the impression that the lsi is better than the rti in every aspect assuming you are providing proper power.

True.

audiobliss · October 2005

So, basically, you don't have to have awesome gear to power the LSi's. You just have to have awesome gear to power the LSi's so they'll sound better than the RTi's.

aaharvel · October 2005

not really audiobliss. It doesn't take awesome gear to hear the difference between the two lines. Just good gear. With all due respect it's obvious to me the lsi's sonic superiority and probably to anyone else with two working ears.

McLoki · October 2005

audiobliss wrote:

So, basically, you don't have to have awesome gear to power the LSi's. You just have to have awesome gear to power the LSi's so they'll sound better than the RTi's.

No, but it stands to reason that a speaker that will show all the benefits of good hardware will also show the faults of poor hardware. Awesome is not needed, but better than average is highly recommended...

Michael

ND13 · October 2005

I think there is a language barrier involved here. Not trying to be funny or offensive, it just seems obvious to me.

Tequila, go get your RTis and enjoy them as many many people do.

McLoki · October 2005

ND13 wrote:

Tequila, go get your RTis and enjoy them as many many people do.

You are right of course. Its your money and your system - get what sounds good to you.

Michael

wingnut4772 · October 2005

Thank you cfrizz for keeping this forum in line. There are women here too

wingnut4772 · October 2005

Till you hear the Rti line (12,8,6,10 or 4) not the RtI100s beacuse is a great difference

They(the Rti100s) are the only ones that I have heard. They were so so decent though so if the others sound better they must be pretty good...I just LOVE my LSIs though.

aaharvel · October 2005

Rti lovers enjoy your speakers.
Lsi lovers enjoy your speakers.
Everyone enjoy your speakers.

knownalien_ · October 2005

the LSi's are expensive. But, that's why you have to save up. I did. At a purely visual level, the exteriors of the LSi series are like Steinway grand pianos. high gloss and very pretty. It's the best looking piece of furniture in my room! The Rti series has a more "college" look that seems most suited to that type of environment. One bad thing about the RTi 12 speakers is that you need a WHOLE lot to drive them. they are rated at 500 watts max power. That's hard and expensive to get, esp. when it has to be 500 watts at 8 ohms. I doubt that you can really get a great sound out of those RTi12's with a 110 watt amp. but at (currently, before the Outlaws arrive) 100 watt amps can make the LSi15 so responsive in the low end that I turned off my subwoofer!!!

cfrizz · October 2005

My pleasure Wing!

What he is telling us is that he can't AFFORD the top of Polks Line=LSI's. Therefore, what he can afford is their 2nd tier Line=RTI's. Since this is all he can afford, then this just HAS to be better than the top of Polks lines of speakers=LSI's!

There is nothing wrong in making compromises to get as close as we can to our dreams. The closest he wants to get at this time is the RTI series of speakers. May he enjoy them in good health, since they are fine speakers as well.

GaryZ06 · October 2005

cfrizz wrote:

There is nothing wrong in making compromises to get as close as we can to our dreams. The closest he wants to get at this time is the RTI series of speakers. May he enjoy them in good health, since they are fine speakers as well.

I have the RTi12's hooked up to some Outlaw monoblocks.....I listened to both the LSi's and my RTi's and to me the RTi's suited my tastes better.Just because someone picks the RTi's doesn't mean they can't afford the LSi's.

Oh the Cherry finish on my RTi12's are on par with much more expensive speakers.

Holydoc · October 2005

knownalien_ wrote:

The Rti series has a more "college" look that seems most suited to that type of environment. One bad thing about the RTi 12 speakers is that you need a WHOLE lot to drive them. they are rated at 500 watts max power. That's hard and expensive to get, esp. when it has to be 500 watts at 8 ohms. I doubt that you can really get a great sound out of those RTi12's with a 110 watt amp. but at (currently, before the Outlaws arrive) 100 watt amps can make the LSi15 so responsive in the low end that I turned off my subwoofer!!!

Well I was going to stay out of this discussion because I have never owned the LSi model so I cannot do a comparison. However I do take offense when things are stated out of beliefs rather than fact.

I am sitting next to my RTi12's and comparing the finish to my marble cherry wood table, my SVS PB12/plus in Cherrywood, and my Cherrywood mantel. All I can say Alien is that if this is a college look then you must be talking about Yale and Princeton. I have never seen such quality work in my days at Ole Miss or FSU. Maybe the college you went to have a wealthier clientel.

I also am very aware of the ratings of the RTi12's. Do not let their ratings fool you. Just because a speaker may be rated at 100watt or 1000watts does not mean you need the max power to drive them. Those ratings are just the max power given by the manufacturer that you would ever want to give those speakers without damaging them. Your statements like "I doubt" and "you need" and "it has to be" are conjecture at the best.

My RTi12's sounded great with just my receiver pushing them. That was probably around 30 to 40watts of power. They sound better with my amp pushing them at 200watts. Do not make statements from heresay or without facts to support them.

I will step back now. The sound of a speaker totally depends on the listener, the environment, and the equipment pushing it. I will let the author of the thread decide on that fact. I am sorry if I strayed from the intent of this thread. Just worries me when people try to convince another to purchase something by making assumptions about its competition that may or may not be true.

Sell your product with facts and specs about it. Do not try to sell your product by putting down another to make yours sound better.

Tequila · October 2005

Cfrizz:
This is not a money question, that is stupid. I can afford easily the Lsi line, what is the problem? If I like the Rti then that is the same to haven´t the money? You should think a little more....Don`t lose your head...

Lsi: Rich people, Rti: Poor people

THAT IS STUPID. :rolleyes:

Which sounds better? This is a personal question. I told you my point of view....and nothing more.

audiobliss · October 2005

Holydoc wrote:

The sound of a speaker totally depends on the listener, the environment, and the equipment pushing it.

And I'd say that the listener has at least 99% to do with it. Thus making it all personal preference. And, to an extent, making discussion and debate on the matter totally irrelevant and fruitless.

Holydoc · October 2005

Audiobliss,

I totally admire a person who can say in one sentence what I was trying to say in several paragraphs.

And, to an extent, making discussion and debate on the matter totally irrelevant and fruitless.

aaharvel · October 2005

Tequila wrote:

Which sounds better? This is a personal question. I told you my point of view....and nothing more.

Yes Tequila you have given us your point of view. The same point of view in time after time after time... Go enjoy your speakers! Your incessant self-justification of why you bought them do nothing but hint at insecurity and attention seeking.

audiobliss · October 2005

Holydoc wrote:

Audiobliss,

I totally admire a person who can say in one sentence what I was trying to say in several paragraphs.

Then I will bask in my accomplishment, because I am sure it is one of only two times (at most) I've ever said anything worthwhile on this forum.

If only I could be so concise in my writing for school!

cfrizz · October 2005

You are the one who equated the LSI's as "expensive ****". So it is not totally out of the question, that the main problem you have with the speakers is their expense. Perhaps you shouldn't lose your head.

We all told you that the RTI's are fine speakers & since you like them you should buy them. YOU are the one that keeps trying to tell us that they are better than the LSI's. They aren't. The LSI's are Polks top speaker line.

Tequila wrote:

Cfrizz:
This is not a money question, that is stupid. I can afford easily the Lsi line, what is the problem? If I like the Rti then that is the same to haven´t the money? You should think a little more....Don`t lose your head...

Lsi: Rich people, Rti: Poor people

THAT IS STUPID. :rolleyes:

Which sounds better? This is a personal question. I told you my point of view....and nothing more.

aaharvel · October 2005

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ND13 · October 2005

I just want to know how this became an economics discussion instead of an audio discussion

knownalien_ · October 2005

Holydoc wrote:

Well I was going to stay out of this discussion because I have never owned the LSi model so I cannot do a comparison. However I do take offense when things are stated out of beliefs rather than fact.

I am sitting next to my RTi12's and comparing the finish to my marble cherry wood table, my SVS PB12/plus in Cherrywood, and my Cherrywood mantel. All I can say Alien is that if this is a college look then you must be talking about Yale and Princeton. I have never seen such quality work in my days at Ole Miss or FSU. Maybe the college you went to have a wealthier clientel.

I also am very aware of the ratings of the RTi12's. Do not let their ratings fool you. Just because a speaker may be rated at 100watt or 1000watts does not mean you need the max power to drive them. Those ratings are just the max power given by the manufacturer that you would ever want to give those speakers without damaging them. Your statements like "I doubt" and "you need" and "it has to be" are conjecture at the best.

My RTi12's sounded great with just my receiver pushing them. That was probably around 30 to 40watts of power. They sound better with my amp pushing them at 200watts. Do not make statements from heresay or without facts to support them.

I will step back now. The sound of a speaker totally depends on the listener, the environment, and the equipment pushing it. I will let the author of the thread decide on that fact. I am sorry if I strayed from the intent of this thread. Just worries me when people try to convince another to purchase something by making assumptions about its competition that may or may not be true.

Sell your product with facts and specs about it. Do not try to sell your product by putting down another to make yours sound better.

I have spent a lot of time at the store looking at the RTi12's and LSi15's. It's not out of guessing that I make my statement. I ALMOST bought the RTi12's except that I have wanted the LSi15's for nearly two years now! The RTi12's are rather new.

Now, you can run less power to the 12's of course, but you will not make them shine at their best until you can run more into them. Same thing with the LSi15's, but you can do it with less wattage. At show rooms they are going to put in stuff that make the speaker sound nice. I bring my own audio samples. They hate that. side by side with equal gear the LSi's were better at the high end. Rock music relies heavily on that region for the cymbals on the drums and harmonics of the guitars.

As for the "college" look, I did not mean to offend. I saw them only two days ago, and while they look quite masculine (which is cool, as I personally think the LSi's to look more feminine) the veneer look is more like what you'd see at Value City furniture (and mind you they have nnice stuff) but the LSi high gloss look reminds one more of those furniture shops that are too pricey for one to even enter. That's really what I meant to say. Remember, I was coming from the RTi100's, with the kinda cra[[y veneer that came with.

knownalien_ · October 2005

let me add that I DO like the way the 12's look. I could live with a better spike though, like maybe aluminum or something. they are a more full range speaker than the 15's. Of that I am definitely jealous.

reeltrouble1 · October 2005

I think both lines are very nice and yes the RTi cherry look very nice. Buy what you want my ears say the LSI is a smoother and more musical speaker. One thing though, The LSi require an amplifier with higher power (current) than the RTi. This has to do with the nominal impedance of each speaker. Don't want any of the newer members getting confused here. We are not talking watts, we are talking power or current.

That said I enjoy and own Polk speakers from all of their lines both past and present.

RT1

knownalien_ · October 2005

^^ the RTi cherrys do look nice. But the black? not so much. The LSi's do indeed have a lower sensitivity. But the the amp has to be good not in that it is a 1000 watt amp per se, but that it can dip down into 4 ohms easily. That, you expect from higher end stuff. 8 ohm speakers won't sit in the 4 ohm range for long and so most amps can handle momentary lapses into the 4 ohms range. ofcourse, all speakers run from 2 ohms up to 8 ohms during their use. But the 4 ohms speakers live better in the 4 ohms range. Like I said, I was THIS close to getting the RTi12's. But since the majority of the music I have is Classical, well. . .

truth is, I have plenty of rock and rap and vocal stuff, and the LSi is most effective in bringing out nuances in acoustic settings. In rock, there is very little of that. The vocals are typically processed and lose much of their analog traits. The guitar (electric) and bass (electric) are NOT acoustic as they require amps. It's a middle man that we are used to, but better speakers don't reveal much more in that source than a purely analog/acoustic one like Classical. In rock, drums are likely the most acoustic instrument, and that assumes they didn't use a drum machine. I am listening to Classical music right now (Richard Strauss at the moment) and the LSi (funny enough) bring out a LOT. Mistakes I never heard. Page turns I never heard. Coughs I never heard? Could the RTi's do that? Not as well as the LSi's, but better than anything in that price range. Polk makes excellent speakers. My first pair was an R40! Then the RTi100's. I should have gotten the RTi70's for the midrange when paired with a decent sub. Anywho, next in line was the LSi series. I am a polk junkie. No way around that.

scottnbnj · October 2005

tequila says some rock doesn't sound right on lsi's. i've heard this before with my lsi9's. others have talked about it here too.

for me, if i used live and rock preset eq trims, the tunes that didn't sound right sounded better. not great, but the tonal balance was closer to what i know those tunes to sound like.

the problem was room acoustics. bass traps and wall treatments cured it and made a few of those tunes some of the top performers in my humble music collection. from the little i have heard rti's in showrooms, it isn't much of a stretch for me to believe that rti's could play better to a room that does this to lsi's.

tequila, early in the thread you asked what it was about the rti tweet. if you demo again, put your ear close to the tweets of the rti's and lsi's while they're playing some different tunes (same ear, each speak) and listen for what the rti has that the lsi does not and which sounds more like music. then go back to the listening position and listen for a while.

good luck.

)

edit: if you go again tequila, stick with the lsi9's on the nad and rotel gear.

knownalien_ · October 2005

^^ for what it's worth, I listen to music "flat." Denon calls this "Direct." I want to hear as little embellishment as possible (because you audition the speaker and not the amp). I suggest others do the same when auditioning. It seems odd to me that, when it comes to music, one would want to hear it with all kinds of gimmicky additives that many receivers do.

scottnbnj · October 2005

sorry if i didn't make myself clear ka. my room acoustics threw off the in room frequency response of my lsi's (along with other problems that aren't worth going into here). my point was that some rock tunes just shined a spotlight the problem. preset eq trims just brought the tonal balance closer to what i knew it should be.

if it helps you to understand that what i've written isn't just a personal preference, hearing deficiency or playing with knobs and buttons thing... i was curious to see what was going on, so i dug my real time frequency spectrum analyzer (rta) out of the closet. it pretty much agreed with what i heard [heh,heh. ok okay. and, maybe a showed me couple of things that i didn't identify by ear. ok. several. my ears aren't that great].

i thought my experience with adding eq might help some understand how rti's tonal balance might sound closer to what someone knows to be the truth than lsi's in a particular room. i could be wrong (it's been a while since my short rti demo), but it's my impression that rti's are voiced in a similar direction to my lsi9's with the added eq trims.

anyway, as i said, bass traps and wall treatments cured the problem. now, eq does not make the tonal balance of those tunes closer to what it should be, it makes them sound worse.

)

organ · October 2005

ND13 wrote:

I just want to know how this became an economics discussion instead of an audio discussion

OK, back to audio...

I like both lines very much and can't really say which is superior. I've owned a pair of RT800i and now the LSi9. I had both before selling the 800i's. I loved my RT but had no choice. I needed cash for a pre amp at the time.

When powered by a tube amp the RT's sounded so sweet. This is where the LSi is lacking with my tube amp. But give me a SS amp and I'd take the LSi. Both speakers are wonderful.

Maurice

Rti better than Lsi FOR ROCK MUSIC

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