New CDP or DAC? Advice?

halo

I'm trying to decide on what to do and I'd appreciate any advice.

My choices are either purchasing a new CDP - Cambridge Audio Azur 540C or the ONIX XCD-88 or adding a DAC - somthing like a Parasound or Adcom - to my existing CDP. They're all in the same boat as far as cost. I just want the best SQ for my $. Thanks in advance.

heiney9

My advice go with the outboard Dac. I did and never looked back. People will try to tell you the Cambridge will sound just as good as adding a Dac, but that's not the case. The Dac will sound much better. I have an Adcom and love it. It really made a huge diff when I added it to an already respectable cdp.

H9

pearsall001

If the units come with a 30 day trial period I say go for it. I recently demoed a Benchmark DAC & a CIAudio DAC unit. Needless to say both units were returned. For the life of me & my wife we couldn't hear any difference that would warrant keeping either DAC. Then again that's our ears, you might hear something completely different. Half the fun is trying different stuff. But I can honestly say that one item we did try (also a 30 day trial) that made an immediate difference was a MARIGO 3-D SIGNATURE STABLIZER MAT from Music Direct. The difference was like night & day, the music really sounded clearer, more dynamic, more punch in the bass. For my wife to notice the difference & even comment on how much better it sounded is really saying something about a product. Technically I don't know what this thing does but boy does it work. Well so much for my $0.2
Happy hunting!

halo

pearsall001 wrote:

If the units come with a 30 day trial period I say go for it.

Nah, the DAC's I'm considering would be used (ebay or audiogon). The CDP's would be new but in order to return them I'd have to pay shipping twice :mad: .

pearsall001 wrote:

But I can honestly say that one item we did try (also a 30 day trial) that made an immediate difference was a MARIGO 3-D SIGNATURE STABLIZER MAT from Music Direct.

That's an interesting idea - thanks

steveinaz

Get an external DAC and upgrade to the Azur 540 later as your transport. I won't recommend a particular DAC, listen for yourself...

dorokusai

Cdp.

Light, in a closed transport, huge problem....I could go on, but I'll let you have fun with the tweak :eek:

shack

External DACs are overrated IMO

halo

dorokusai wrote:

Cdp.

Light, in a closed transport, huge problem....I could go on, but I'll let you have fun with the tweak :eek:

I don't understand what you mean bro

I understand you are endorsing the CDP - I just didn't get the rest.

Thanks for the input everybody - keep 'em going please.

heiney9

shack wrote:

External DACs are overrated IMO

Obviously you've never heard a good one .

dragon1952

I'd go with a new CDP. You're not going to get a decent DAC for anywhere near the cost of those CDP's you mention. I'd ditch the Kenwood and go from there.

shack

heiney9 wrote:

Obviously you've never heard a good one .

Yes...I have. More than one actually. And each time I've come away totally underwhelmed.

heiney9

All I can say is in my experience it made the single biggest improvement so far. And believe me when I purchased it I wasn't expecting a huge improvement, but I was pleasently suprised. No, my cdp wasn't that bad to being with. If you have the cash get Cambridge (new w/ 30 day return) and a used Dac and compare them. You can return the Cambridge or resell the Dac. Everyone here can give you an opinion, but you are the one who has to listen to it. In the end it's what you and your ears decide.

Have fun

H9

shack

H9 is right. You MUST try it for yourself. I was exactly the oposite. After several glowing testimonial like H9's I went in expecting night and day. Never happened for me. I heard the Bel Canto DAC2 and MF X-DAC on different occasions with different CDPs, including a SONY :eek: (then again...I like Sony CDPs). Good pre, good amp, good speakers each time. Not once did I feel the difference in SQ justified the price of the DAC. Again this "Just My Opinion". YMMV

halo

OK - Seems like the CDP is probably the way I'm going to go. So, aside from the two I already mentioned, any other brands/models in that price range come to mind? I'd rather purchase a new one over something used.

H9 You're right - it is my decision. I just like to have the advice of friends who know a lot more about hifi than I do over a sales person's or a (probably biased) magazine's article. You've given me some good advice and I appreciate it but, like I said, if I buy the Azur & return it - I foot the bill for shipping both ways.

Shack - thanks for the advice. What's YMMV? & BTW I value your opinion.

Where is Trey? Didn't he just buy the Onix?

Thanks again for all the advice. Keep it coming

SCompRacer

YMMV Your Mileage May Vary.

shack

peersool wrote:

Shack - thanks for the advice. What's YMMV?

Your mileage may vary (ie: your experience may differ from mine)

heiney9

peersool wrote:

OK - Seems like the CDP may be the way to go & if so, aside from the two I already mentioned, any other brands/models in that price range come to mind? I'd rather purchase a new one over something used.

H9 You're right - it is my decision. I just like to have the advice of friends who know a lot more about hifi than I do over a sales person's or a (probably biased) magazine's article. You've given me some good advice and I appreciate it but, like I said, if I buy the Azur & return it - I foot the bill for shipping both ways.

Shack - thanks for the advice. What's YMMV?

Where is Trey? Didn't he just buy the Onix?

Thanks again for all the advice. Keep it coming

I completely understand you wanting input....but see, now by going with what the majority said here you're not going to get a chance to see what you may be missing by not choosing the Dac. I know sometimes we can't have our cake and eat it too. Maybe it's not that big of deal to you.

Let us know how it turns out

H9

I-SIG

In my experience, A DAC made enough difference that I'm chicken to go without it now.

Wes

SCompRacer

I just picked up a Parasound DAC 2000 ULTRA for the rig listed in my sig (see post 15). The system actually sounds very good even with that old Adcom GCD-575.

I didn't experience a big improvement, but did get a suttle one with the DAC. In all fairness I don't have much of a cable between the Adcom I'm using as a transport and the DAC now, but one is on the way.

peersool, you have a PM

halo

heiney9 wrote:

I completely understand you wanting input....but see, now by going with what the majority said here you're not going to get a chance to see what you may be missing by not choosing the Dac.

Let us know how it turns out

H9

Oh, I dunno. I'm just looking to take my rig to the next level. If I buy the azur there is no way to know I can't snag a DAC off epay or audiogon in the near future. You're right about being able to just sell the DAC if I don't like it. I think that almost everyone would agree that the azur is a step up from the kenwood. I've got plenty of time to mess around with a DAC when the time/price is right. I was just thinking that adding a DAC to (ugh!) a Kenwood would be like putting lipstick on a pig.

I-SIG - That made me laugh

heiney9

I-SIG wrote:

In my experience, A DAC made enough difference that I'm chicken to go without it now.

Wes

Want to share a coop?

heiney9

peersool wrote:

Oh, I dunno. I'm just looking to take my rig to the next level. If I buy the azur there is no way to know I can't snag a DAC off epay or audiogon in the near future. You're right about being able to just sell the DAC if I don't like it. I think that almost everyone would agree that the azur is a step up from the kenwood. I've got plenty of time to mess around with a DAC when the time/price is right. I was just thinking that adding a DAC to (ugh!) a Kenwood would be like putting lipstick on a pig.

The Cambridge is a fine unit and will be a big step up from the Kenwood.....not sure about putting lipstick on a pig, the Dac can do wonders even for mediocre transports. Don't let that be the single deciding factor. There's the same amount of time to add a better transport to a Dac later too.

I'd certainly look at the used route for a Dac if you can...there is a slight bit of truth to what Shack referred to about the cost/benefit factor. IF I never owned a Dac before, the $$ of new ones would give me cause for concern. Now that I've owned (2) both bought used I wouldn't hesitate to spend $$$ on a new one, if I couldn't find a used one.

H9

halo

H9 - Off topic, how do you like the RTA11t's? How would you, or can you for that matter, compare them to say, Monitor 10's?

heiney9

peersool wrote:

H9 - Off topic, how do you like the RTA11t's? How would you, or can you for that matter, compare them to say, Monitor 10's?

I really like my 11's, that's why I've had them so long (bought new in 1987). I haven't heard the Monitor 10's in a long time. I had a friend who had a pair and I remember liking the 11's a lot more. Being slimmer cabinets and having the Mid-Tweeter-Mid (MTM) design really helps. It's called D'Appolito configuration and that really helps the imaging, soundstage and mid-range. The 11's have very deep controlled bass and the soundstage/detail is excellent. Not quite SDA-like but sometimes when my eyes are closed and with the right material it's amazing what they do with the instruments. It's afflicted with the same sl2000 tweeter problems all of this generation Polks are and the better your source the more noticeable it becomes.

Some here just don't like these speaks...mostly the SDA crowd, and rank the 7's and even the 10's above them...never understood why. If these are set-up properly and given a good source they really are excellent speaks. However any Polk w/sl2000 tweet you should consider the replacement.

See link for D'Appolito description.

www.sweetwater.com/expert-center/glossary/t--D'Appolito

The "RTA" stands for real time array. The idea is to have all the horizontal freq reach your ear at the exact same time. Though in reality this is very difficult to do. The D'Appolito array if done correctly will come close to achieving this. Not sure how well Polk did this, or if it's even a true D'Appolito array by definition, but 11's are very open, cohesive, and have a huge soundstage, so they must be doing something right. Sometimes I can't believe the solid controlled extended bass I get. They seem to function well with all types of music.

I've been contemplating replacing them with either the Lsi 9 or 15 but fear I may loose some flexiblity as far as musicallity on all types of music. Don't get me wrong I know the Lsi's will sound much better, but I'm not sure they will on every type of music I enjoy. Damn this turned into a long post.....If I have the understanding of RTA and D'Appolito incorrect, please someone correct.

H9
EDIT
P.s. Not sure why the link didn't work ...you'll just have to copy and paste if you want to use it.

halo

H9 - Thanks for the info. I'm familiar with RTA because my "Monitor 11's" are, according to their manual, R.T.A. 11 Reference Monitor System (Model 11) loudspeakers. They have peerless tweeters, two 6/12" drivers per cabinet and 12" passive radiators plus a left & right channel designation on the backs of the cabinets. BlueMDpicker has the same speakers & F1's dad has them also. Blue has a pdf of the owners manual that he sent me & it goes into the details of all that Real Time Array stuff, speaker placement, etc.

I'm thinking of picking up a pair of RTA11t's because they'd fit into my current room config. better than the massive Monitor 11's.

I appreciate the review as I was afraid I'd be giving up bass response by swapping them out. I will, however, lose the peerless tweeters on the Monitor 11's so I'd have to get the new silk replacements if I made the swap. Are the replacements a direct drop in or do I have to do any mods?

dorokusai

The only real RTA was and is the RTA12. It's an alignment of the voice coils and has little if anything to do with the actual array.

The Reference Monitor 11 and 12 do not utilize a Real Time Array....it's just a nomenclature snafu.

halo

I know how you and Jesse feel about this subject - I was just quoting the manual. BTW - off topic - Mark, did you get my message about the SC?

dorokusai

Peer- Yes, I'm on it.

halo

dorokusai wrote:

Peer- Yes, I'm on it.

Cool. :cool: Thanks!

heiney9

Peersool,

I'd give them a try if you can find a pair locally reasonably priced. I've liked every vintage monitor Polk made one way or another. If you are serious about getting a pair and are ever over this way (Rockford) let me know maybe we could get together and you could hear them. I haven't replaced the tweets yet, I've been contemplating, but thought I might have some Lsi 9's by now and saved the $100 for those. Now I'm not sure what I want to do. I'm afraid I'd give up too much bass if I go with the 9's and I'm not looking to spend the money for the 15's, plus there seems to be some picky placement issues with the 15's. I just can't make a decision and the 11's still do it for me so.......

H9

halo

whoops - nevermind. Thanks H9.