Difference between Monitor and RTi Series ?

Glaferri

Hello,

Would somebody explain to me the main technical difference between the Monitor and the RTi series. Is the hardware very different (woofer, tweeter, crossover...) ? the way the enclosure is constructed ?

What would be the overall audio quality difference or how would you describe the main audio "color" of each series ( For example... are the RTi known to have a "brighter" sound or more balanced or... )

I am new to home theater and Polk speakers... I have listened to the following set at a dealer in Montreal, Canada: Monitor 50, CS1, Monitor 30 and Sub PSW10 on an Onkyo receiver. I found that the sound was OK for the price... but not as good as I would like. Is it worth upgrading to the RTi ?

My budget would permit me to go to the following configuration: RTi8, CS3, RTi4 and PSW12 with and Harman Kardon AVR435 receiver.

Unfortunately my budget would not permit me to go for the high end LSi series...

I would like a system good for home theater but also to listen to music, mostly pop and jazz...

Thanks in advance for your time.

Eman

I would advice you not to compare the bottom of the pack monitors with the RTis. The pair of Rti8s alone cost as much as the entire set of monitor speakers you sampled (minus the sub). Also, you should sample all the speakers for yourself to see what you like.

Anyway, the Rti8 are brighter/more forward than the RTi10 or Rti12 and you will still need a sub for the low end. The RTi10 have a lower midrange and are more laid back than the RTi8 or RTi12 which makes the RTi12 a much livelier speaker with a respectable bottom end (It is the best sounding of all and best balanced). The problem is that the 80+ lbs RTi12 needs a good amp from what Ive been told and when I sampled them I used the top of the line HK7XXX.

The monitor M60s perform very close to the RTi8 and is noticably better than the M50s but still lacks output in the lower frequencies (all three still need a sub). The monitor M70s are a big step up from the M50 or M60 and although they lack a bit in the middle they more than make up for it in the lower end so you dont need a sub. They perform similar the RTi10s and in fact I prefer them because of the GREATER lack of midrange in the RTi10s. So you get good low/bottom end and respectable middle and excellent high end without fatigue. Also when you crank these up they sound better. From my experience the brightness/warmth varies within both the Monitor and RTi line. I decided on the M70s front + the Monitor 104 package (Monitor 40s, 30s, CS1, PSW10). I might upgrade the center to the CS2 and I know the PSW10 is weak but the two towers really balance the bass output quite a bit.

Willow

I have pretty much the same speaker set up. the 8 the 4 and a csi3 not the monitor version. As for being brighter, well then that's one man's opinion, I don't find them bright (except for the new coldplay CD) I would recommend any of the speakers be set up with a sub, the towers just can't do what a good sub can.All in all it sounds like you are on the right track to have a very good system. With that HK receiver you could later on pair it up with an amp and you'd be laughing.

Glaferri

Thank you both of you for your quick reply.

I had the same impression as Eman for the lack of mid's in the Monitor series. That's my humble opinion. At one point I asked the salesman if the CD he had compiled was from MP3's or original audio copies...

I will definitively go to another reseller who have the RTi Series in stock to hear them and make my own opinion.

Thanks to you also Willow, I'm happy to hear that HK receiver is a good mix with Polk speakers and I will buy a sub for sure !

PolkThug

In your situation, I would go with.

Rti6 front
Csi3 center
Rti4 rear
SVS PB10 bass

screxer

SVS PB10 would be a much better choice than the PSW12....from personal experience, DO NOT get the PSW12. Mine never really hit as low as I wanted it to, and when it did try to go low, the port noise was so loud, I was distracted by it. Get an SVS or if you're like me and want to audition things before a purchase, search out a good Velodyne.

Eman

Willow wrote:

I have pretty much the same speaker set up. the 8 the 4 and a csi3 not the monitor version. As for being brighter, well then that's one man's opinion, I don't find them bright (except for the new coldplay CD) I would recommend any of the speakers be set up with a sub, the towers just can't do what a good sub can.All in all it sounds like you are on the right track to have a very good system. With that HK receiver you could later on pair it up with an amp and you'd be laughing.

Its not an opinion its a comparison I will never label a speaker as bright or warm. What I can do and anyone else do is to say a speaker is BRIGHTER THAN or WARMER THAN having said this the RTi8 sounded brighter than the RTi10s but definitely the RTi8s sound WARMER than the Klipsch SF-1 and SF-2 for example. So your speaker can be anything from a different point of view.

Remember the RTi10s are the ones lacking the most in the midrange and are the most unbalanced of all when taking into account a sub paired with say the M60s or Rti8s moreover, the size of the RTi6 end even the RTi4 is quite large in length and can take up more space than having a pair of M60 towers in the rear. No pair of RTi bookshelves on stands can perform as good as the M60 towers so space is a factor. From this point of view both having the same sub, two pairs of M60 monitor towers will sound better than two pair of Rti6 bookshelves. Also, the CS2 will most definitely sound better than a CSi3 but not the CSi5 so it all depends what components you are comparing the Rtis and Monitors to with the exeption of the RTi12s (these rock) who is to say one cant get a better soundstage with one or the other?

MacLeod

Personally Ive always prefered speakers without 20 different drivers in them. It may give more low frequency performance but Ive always like the detail and clarity from a single driver and tweeter.

aaharvel

MacLeod wrote:

Personally Ive always prefered speakers without 20 different drivers in them. It may give more low frequency performance but Ive always like the detail and clarity from a single driver and tweeter.

BINGO!

Eman

MacLeod wrote:

Personally Ive always prefered speakers without 20 different drivers in them. It may give more low frequency performance but Ive always like the detail and clarity from a single driver and tweeter.

Personally I prefer a more balanced floorstanding bass output rather than spending 20hrs seting up a subwoofer costing 20 times more than an average one does in a good location and using 20 satellites to achieve the same sound.

MacLeod

Eman wrote:

Personally I prefer a more balanced floorstanding bass output rather than spending 20hrs seting up a subwoofer costing 20 times more than an average one does in a good location and using 20 satellites to achieve the same sound.

Ummm, ok.

VR3

Wow... where should I begin?

Remember the RTi10s are the ones lacking the most in the midrange and are the most unbalanced of all when taking into account a sub paired with say the M60s or Rti8s moreover.

Umm, explain exactly why the RTi10 is the most unbalanced speaker? How is the Monitor 60 or RTi8 more balanced exactly? Something tells me you need to hear a high quality two-way design.

The size of the RTi6 end even the RTi4 is quite large in length and can take up more space than having a pair of M60 towers in the rear. No pair of RTi bookshelves on stands can perform as good as the M60 towers so space is a factor.

Again, HUH? The Monitor line may not be TALL, but they are freakishly deep, atleast from what I remember seeing them. How does the Monitor 60 out-perform speakers with better enclosures, drivers, crossovers? Please don't tell me its the extra drivers? A high quality 2-way design can rock towers down the road.

From this point of view both having the same sub, two pairs of M60 monitor towers will sound better than two pair of Rti6 bookshelves.

HUH? What gear have you heard the RTi line on exactly?

Also, the CS2 will most definitely sound better than a CSi3 but not the CSi5

Here is the ULTIMATE BS flag by far. Just because a speaker uses larger drivers does NOT make it better. You will have to explain exactly why the CS2 is better... because that is just funny. I guess the LSiC is an inferrior speaker as well??

Now I am hoping your comments are based on more than just driver size and amount... because its just one big BS flag after the other.

Eman

Wow... where should I begin?

Remember the RTi10s are the ones lacking the most in the midrange and are the most unbalanced of all when taking into account a sub paired with say the M60s or Rti8s moreover.

Umm, explain exactly why the RTi10 is the most unbalanced speaker? How is the Monitor 60 or RTi8 more balanced exactly? Something tells me you need to hear a high quality two-way design.

Did an AB comparison in three different soundrooms (Frys in Scottsdale and Phoenix running off a Harman Kardon AVR7300 120 watts per channel and the third was in a top of the line Tweeter Showcase showroom running off separates - I say top of the line because I also listened to a 10K plus set up in an adjacent room.) There was a definite hole in the midrange response of the the RTi10 clearly apparent when comparing the RTi10 to the Rti12 and RTi8 the RTi8 was lean on the low end but a sub could clearly take care of this and in fact it did. On a dvd music guitar festival featuring Eric clapton Santana James Taylor and others this had the effect of crippling the live performance and was very noticable. The 10K set up made me feel like I was there while the RTi12 made me feel like I was ALMOST there by comparison the RTi10 made me feel I was in a showroom listening to the concert over there. So there!

The size of the RTi6 end even the RTi4 is quite large in length and can take up more space than having a pair of M60 towers in the rear. No pair of RTi bookshelves on stands can perform as good as the M60 towers so space is a factor.

Again, HUH? The Monitor line may not be TALL, but they are freakishly deep, atleast from what I remember seeing them. How does the Monitor 60 out-perform speakers with better enclosures, drivers, crossovers? Please don't tell me its the extra drivers? A high quality 2-way design can rock towers down the road.

The depth of the RTi bookshelves is greater than that of the M30, M50, M60 and possibly M40 as well assuming side or rear placement and taking into account the rear port vs the front port on the towers the towers will often take up less space. I dont know the specifics of the monitors vs the RTis as far as internal components but I figure Polk does and they price their products accordingly. A pair of RTi 4 or 6 bookshelves with stands is almost comparable to an M50 or M60 tower. You cant create frequencies that are not there and the towers will in most cases go down lower and be more efficient thus blending better with the sub and reacing louder volumes before clipping.

From this point of view both having the same sub, two pairs of M60 monitor towers will sound better than two pair of Rti6 bookshelves.

HUH? What gear have you heard the RTi line on exactly?

See above comments

Also, the CS2 will most definitely sound better than a CSi3 but not the CSi5

Here is the ULTIMATE BS flag by far. Just because a speaker uses larger drivers does NOT make it better. You will have to explain exactly why the CS2 is better... because that is just funny. I guess the LSiC is an inferrior speaker as well??

Frequency response efficiency and Polk agrees by pricing it higher.

Now I am hoping your comments are based on more than just driver size and amount... because its just one big BS flag after the other.

I like bookshelves but at some point they get too bulky or costly if stands are needed and I would rather spend the cash on better speakers. If you have a bookshelve in your home on all four walls then I suppose bookshelve speakers all around is a must but no house is like that.

So there it is point by point..

VR3

Here is what I recomend...

Go to Fryes and request an in-home demo.

Having lived with the impression the RTi70 was more balanced than the RTi100 (which I still do think that because it had almost no mids) - then later finding out the RTi70 was so unbalanced I just couldn't take it. A high quality two way design can walk all over the floor with multiple driver towers in almost every quality except bass. However, I know of a few that can do bass - but they are 2.5 way designs. (This is in larger rooms) - my speakers are pretty good at bass in small to medium size rooms, with powa...

Willow

MacLeod wrote:

Ummm, ok.

Exactly my thoughts !! I would love to see Emans set up vs one who spent lots on a sub and played 20hrs setting it up.

Setting up and location is all part of this hobby it's fun to experiment.

Sheesh you come on this board like you own the damn thing. Well thats the feeling you're giving me.

Glaf, where are you listening in MTL? in Ottawa we don't have many choices.

aaharvel

imo for the $ rti's are better speakers.

:cool:

unbridled_id

Midrange
The range of frequencies above bass and below treble that our ears are most sensitive to, which includes most vocal and instrumental sounds. Sometimes refers to a driver designed to reproduce these frequencies.

I own a pair of rti 10's and run them with a nad c272, and I simply do not hear the "hole" in the midrange that you refer to.

VR3

I always felt Polk had a fairly muddy midrange, even the higher end speakers from them. I always associated it with the amount of bass their bookshelfs and towers put out, even the ones with subs. I always felt the midrange was really loose. Your mileage may vary.

As for there being a hole? Well a hole would mean something is like completely not there... I could understand it just being straight up veiled because I have experienced this very thing...

But just because a speaker has two midbasses does not mean it dosn't have that hole. It just means it takes the same hole and amplifies everything around it more. Its not fixing the issue, its just hiding it a little bit. In time you will start to pick it out if you notice it on the single midbass line. TRUST ME ON THAT ONE.

I have very little experience with the Monitor line, but they seem to sound similar to the RTi line - maybe a lil brighter (which is an amazing accomplishment)...

Eman

unbridled_id wrote:

Midrange
The range of frequencies above bass and below treble that our ears are most sensitive to, which includes most vocal and instrumental sounds. Sometimes refers to a driver designed to reproduce these frequencies.

I own a pair of rti 10's and run them with a nad c272, and I simply do not hear the "hole" in the midrange that you refer to.

Hook up an RTi12 on your system and do an AB comparison. I never said the speaker is lacking anything I said WHEN COMPARING the RTi8 and the RTi12 the RTi10 is definitely not putting out something relative to the other two and its very noticable and the best way to describe it is a hole/dip. Go complain to POlk I did not design the thing but if I did your speaker would have sounded better like the other two.

Eman

Zero wrote:

The RTi-8 is quite bloated and lacks coherency in contrast to the Rti-10 that does fall short on mid-range, where as the Rti-12 requires a beast of an amp to even be a worthwhile purchase..

I'd take the Rti-4 or Rti-6, any day over them.

What I just stated above was based off of experience, ie: spending a total of 6 months each day with the product. Take that opinion and experience for whatever its worth to you.

Glaferri,

I find the Monitor series to sport a wonderfully large sound-stage, equal if not even a bit better than the RTi. However, I find the Monitor series to sound 'hollow' unless ran on snazzy tube equipment. It may also be a bit more aggressive in the high's and not as pronounced in the lower regions. Voicing though, is quite similar. Essentially, the Rti will give you everything the R and Monitor series will give you - but only give you more of it - sans imaging.

If you can afford the RTi upgrade - its heavily recommended.

For the minimal increase in cost, you get better cabs, crossover components and drivers.

Crossovers ? The one thing Polk likes to advertise on these is the Mylar bypass capacitors THEY BOTH HAVE THEM.

Better Cabs? Both use MDF construction with side to side front to back internal bracing, both are biampable, both use the 'Anti-Diffraction' Floating grilles, both are video shielded. Even the T90E or M60 Euros use wood laminates.

Tweeters are almost identical as both use Silk Fabric/Polymer Composite Dynamic Balance Dome Tweeter with Neodymium magnets.

These speakers have more in common than what most people assume based on reputation. I am not convinced the RTi line is superior to the Monitor what I will say is that it all depends on what is being compared with the exception of the RTi12s. So when your sales man tells you 'RTi up here , Monitors down here' you reply -perhaps without the RTi12 .

unbridled_id

It's not what the polk customer service rep says but believe what you will. It is your money and if you think you can get the same performance from the lower line feel free or just buy the 12's since they are superior in your mind.

aaharvel

all i know is i've done a/b's with the rti4 and monitor 30. The difference was apparent. Just like the difference is apparent with the LSI7 vs. Rti4 which i've also have done an a/b.

VR3

Crossovers ? The one thing Polk likes to advertise on these is the Mylar bypass capacitors THEY BOTH HAVE THEM.

Caps are only one part of the equation. Both would benefit from xover upgrades regardless.

Tweeters are almost identical as both use Silk Fabric/Polymer Composite Dynamic Balance Dome Tweeter with Neodymium magnets.

They may be built similar, but that dosn't mean they will sound the same. I am sure you can find alot of tweeters with similar builds - all sounding different. Crossover points, everything will effect this.

These speakers have more in common than what most people assume based on reputation. I am not convinced the RTi line is superior to the Monitor what I will say is that it all depends on what is being compared with the exception of the RTi12s. So when your sales man tells you 'RTi up here , Monitors down here' you reply -perhaps without the RTi12 .

Your opinion clearly...

I'm not biased on this situation, I absolutely hate the RTi line from top to bottom, from the RTi4 to the RTi12. So its not like I'm arguing out of pride. I've just heard the Monitor line many times and while it is a good line, I just don't see it comparing to the RTi line... *ponders*

Other than that, I think you are blowing a bunch of hot air

MacLeod

I just got back from my routine trip to Tweeter to play with all the toys and listened extensively to the RTi4 as Im planning on buying some. Then I went to Circuit City and listened to the Monitor 30's and while the M30's are an excellent entry level speaker, they are just that; entry level. The RTi was smoother and more detailed and generally more pleasant to listen to.

KrazyMofo24

The Monitor 40's sound alot better than the 30's, but still not as good at the Rti4's.

Eman

unbridled_id wrote:

It's not what the polk customer service rep says but believe what you will. It is your money and if you think you can get the same performance from the lower line feel free or just buy the 12's since they are superior in your mind.

I can get better performance from a pair of M60 towers over any RTi 4 or 6 bookshelve and so can you.

Eman

KrazyMofo24 wrote:

The Monitor 40's sound alot better than the 30's, but still not as good at the Rti4's.

You are indeed Krazy my friend. The dispersion on the M40 is wider they blend in better with a sub - go get your ears checked.

Eman

MacLeod wrote:

I just got back from my routine trip to Tweeter to play with all the toys and listened extensively to the RTi4 as Im planning on buying some. Then I went to Circuit City and listened to the Monitor 30's and while the M30's are an excellent entry level speaker, they are just that; entry level. The RTi was smoother and more detailed and generally more pleasant to listen to.

Go back and compare some more side by side the M40 to Rti4 the M60 towers against the RTi6 no way the Rti bookshelves are better. What will you say next? Because the Monitors are inferior my $800 M70 towers dont sound as good as any RTi speaker including the RTi4 RTi6 and RTi8 ? Only in your dreams my young padawan.

Ron Temple

So you like the Monitors...

Next subject...

Not to put down the point of your rebuttal. It's all so subjective that no one can win the argument. Be happy... I'm happy

unbridled_id

You do not have to justify your opinion, if you can feel you can get better performance for less then go for it.

RuSsMaN

To answer the original question, a few bucks and a better mid-bass driver.

Anyone that says 'Padawan' in their post is a homo of the highest order, and should NEVER be taken seriously. This type of person is known to wack it like a red-assed monkey, dressed only in a burlap robe, with action figures abound in said room.

Think brohams.

The guy had his demos from, and has based his conclusions on, rooms at CC and Tweeter. Hello? McFly?

Cheers,
Rooster