Awesome: Dual front speakers.

VR3

I recall you saying he had them stacked, one turned around, one facing forwards.

What you just said was put them back to back, one firing backwards, one firing forwards.

This would cause the drivers to be to far apart and would cause an echo of sorts, it just wouldnt sound right at all. Everything would be so off.

As for stacking one on top of the other and turning it around... I dont know.

It isnt my research, its the research of bipolar technology from Mirage and Definitive Tech and any other speaker (other than Bose) that utilizes front and rear drivers and does it right (unlike Bose).

While I am sure you don't like either of those companies/probally havnt heard either of those companies. They have been making and perfecting bipolar technology for 15 years. Something tells me they know what they are talking about....

heiney9

I'm thinking the best situation for stacked speakers is to only have one pair actually hooked up... The other pair (the ones on top) should just be passive. Try it; it'll WORK out best for your situation.

H9

michael_w

How do people deal with those cancellations with line arrays? The 3" tweeter thing makes me think because I see high end line arrays with ribbon tweeters that run four or five feet up the speaker.

Mazeroth

Line array ribbons/planars do not suffer from the center-to-center comb filtering problem. Reason being is ribbons/planars send sound out in a near continuous wavefront, and do not or hardly overlap by the time they reach your ear. This is why if you have 10 ribbons in a line, and you supply them with 10w of power, they will sound no louder than if you had a single ribbon playing with 10w. They do not get a sensitivity gain like woofers do.

Now, if you have dome tweeters, that's a whole different ballgame :eek:

George Grand

If it's okay with Howie Ferstler, it's probably okay with me.

He's not in the business of selling speakers, but probably knows good sound when he hears it. Smart enough to own Allison IC-20's.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

FutureAudio

ok I might be going insane now but Csi40 on left side and csi30 + rti100 on the other side sounds best. Is it possible or this unbalanced system can really sound good/better?
Anyone done something similar?

VR3

Are you currently under the influence of foreign substances? (Pot, Alcohol, etc)

audiobliss

Ya know, I'm kinda under the same impression. Having never experimented with the idea, I'd say yeah, you're going insane. However, whatever you like...we don't have to listen to it...

FutureAudio

Nope

Actually theres a factor that might be affecting it..csi40 on left side is in corner of room = more bass and presence. Could that be the reason?

Another thing I wanted to ask before I go and grab another Csi40 or something ...I couldnt quite figure out if Csi40 cover the frequency range better or worse than Rti100 etc. Do you know?

Dennis Gardner

FutureAudio wrote:

ok I might be going insane now but Csi40 on left side and csi30 + rti100 on the other side sounds best. Is it possible or this unbalanced system can really sound good/better?
Anyone done something similar?

Sounds like you've got an uneven or unbalanced room setup. Corner loading of one speaker can throw the balance off so far that you have to balance it out with drastic measures. It may sound better for now, but I would look into a more balanced room setting for better sound on a long term basis.

On the last question, the CSi40 is really made for center work horizontal axis and all, I would look into RTi70s or RT55s instead of 100s if you like more bass.

VR3

Id go on EBay/or the Flea Market on this forum and list every speaker you own on there and get to shopping. You sound like you are NOT happy.

scottnbnj

FutureAudio wrote:

Actually theres a factor that might be affecting it..csi40 on left side is in corner of room = more bass and presence. Could that be the reason?

i've never listened to any of the speaks you're talking about, but, i'd bet you and dennis are right.

a better route (than using different types of speaks for left and right mains), though, would be schooling up on acoustic treatments and experimenting with that. if cost is the issue, you can do a lot of experimentation with items you already have around the house to get a listen to how much difference treatments can make.

)

FutureAudio

I'm sorry I've never tried things the technical way yet. So the first part of experimentation would be to get a SPL meter?

FutureAudio

Hmm, sounds so damn good...it is the best setup ever in my home yet...and almost perfect stereo image. I just tried all the possible variations with the equipment I have..wasted half of the day or so but should be worth it.

Both the speakers in vertically opposite corners of room ..with right speaker +5 ( farther corner ) ..and left speaker has tweeter of Fxi30 instead of its smaller tweeter and faced upwards ( tilted ) positioned ..below the woofer..to come right at my listening position.

Is that a very unbalanced setup as well? Please provide some pointers to this newbie ( me )

ohskigod

brotha, your tryin waaaaaaaaay too hard

FutureAudio

I cant get satisfied with sound easily. Now sound is really good atleast to my ears...but after listening to few hours ...left tweeter ( upgraded one ) does bother me a bit..maybe positioning it differently will help.

Maybe I should upgrade both the tweeters. Anyone recommend any specific tweeter to upgrade it to apart from what it comes with?

FutureAudio

My budget has been tight so cant go on a shopping spree atm otherwise would have bought the latest Rti series and be done with it heh.

VR3

Get a -different- brand of speakers.

ohskigod

I never liked the RTi100. I think you tried to supplement with the CSi40 because you thought the sound was missing something, like I did when I demoed them as well.
you dont nessecarily need another brand of speaker, but go with something without built in subs. RTi70, RT55 (bookshelf), or go vintage. When I went to the RTA 12B with the peerless tweet, it seemed to open a whole other world to me. trust me on this, dont upgrade tweeters on what you have, sell them and start from scrtch.

ohskigod

consult the guys here on good used speakers, I learned from these guys, and so will you.

VR3

It sounds like he just dosn't like the sound. So I would just stay away from the whole RTi series as they do indeed sound similar.

If he wants to stick with Polk, Vintage is what I would recomend! I also wouldnt dis-qualify other brands, TONS of quality choices out there.

But you eventually figure out if you have to stack stuff up there, there is a weak link somewhere. It may not nesscarially be your mains - but it may be your amp, preamp, cdp, cables, placement - a weak link is always going to be a weak link.

FutureAudio

When I first purchased my HT setup including Rti100 I tried Rti38 and rti100 and rti38 were so much alike each other..with Rti100 having slight edge over Rti38...so I would say rti100 isnt that bad but yeah you guys are right it does seem to miss something atm. I wish I would have got Rti70 that time grr.

audiobliss

'atm'

What does that mean? 'At the moment'?

shack

RuSsMaN wrote:

The only speaker that should ever be stacked, tweeter to tweeter, is 2 pair of 'The Advent Loudspeaker'. You better make sure you have a man amp on the back end, I'd suggest something along the lines of a Hafler 500. THAT is how 'stacking' is done.

Anything else is childs play.

Cheers,
Russ

This was a big deal back in the 70s. Like Russ said, folks would take 2 pairs of Advents and stack them with the top speaker inverted so that the tweeters were close together. It was a very nice sounding setup. In fact The Absoulute Sound did a test of the "Double Advent System" in their very first issue. For those who are interested, here is a link to that article:

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/30thAnniversary/143_double_advent.html

FutureAudio

audiobliss wrote:

'atm'

What does that mean? 'At the moment'?

Yep.

George Grand

Have you considered headphones? Cause right now you're at war with the speakers, and the speakers are kicking your ****.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

FutureAudio

LOL. Headphones give me headache / earache ..I do have a sennheiser though.

George Grand wrote:

Have you considered headphones? Cause right now you're at war with the speakers, and the speakers are kicking your ****.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

scottnbnj

FutureAudio wrote:

I'm sorry I've never tried things the technical way yet. So the first part of experimentation would be to get a SPL meter?

i think a real time frequency spectrum analyzer (rta) would be a better choice. though it wouldn't hurt, i wouldn't suggest it as the first step. either way, i put a few links to freeware rta's in the thread below:

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31465

i think a better first step would be to google up articles on speaker placement and acoustic treatments, get one pair of matching speaks and see if things you try from those articles help. experience with this will be useful if you get around to running an rta, calibrated mic and pink noise (it will help you understand what the results mean and what to do with them).

the reason i say one pair of matching speaks is because you're concerned about imaging and balance. the odds of getting precise and stable imaging and balance from 2 pairs of mains and/or mixing drivers and/or mismatched speaks would be similar to picking a million dollar lottery ticket. i mean, there might be a time and place for these things, but not when listening for image and balance. placement and treatments are solid ways to stengthen these qualities with existing gear.

the article below isn't aimed directly at your situation, but it talks about some of your questions and will give you an idea of what's involved:

http://psbg.emusician.com/ar/emusic_welltempered_studio_2/

)

ND13

shack wrote:

This was a big deal back in the 70s. Like Russ said, folks would take 2 pairs of Advents and stack them with the top speaker inverted so that the tweeters were close together. It was a very nice sounding setup. In fact The Absoulute Sound did a test of the "Double Advent System" in their very first issue. For those who are interested, here is a link to that article:

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/30thAnniversary/143_double_advent.html

Great read there, Shackdaddy. Very interesting, because I've actually done this with the Smaller Advents with similar results, except they were better in a smaller room than the Largers were. The article suggested the Double Advent System(2 Largers) be used in spacious rooms. Cool article. :cool:

FutureAudio

Ok just to do heck with room arrangement ...I moved speakers exactly at equal distance and stuff and they do sound really good without stacking or anything ..but I cant really have one speaker lying in front of the room like that.