Awesome: Dual front speakers.

FutureAudio
FutureAudio Posts: 53
edited September 2005 in 2 Channel Audio
Just in my humble opinion and my personal experience that I would like to share :-)

I've 2xRti100 ( L and R ) and 2xCsi40 ( L and R ) stacked on top of them horizontally.

It increased sweet spot for me and made the sound much more fuller and richer.

I can feel the sound the way I never did before.

For experts out here, does this causes any undue change in imaging or anything?
Main: 2xLsi15
Center: Csi40
Surrounds: 2xLsi7
Back centers: 1xcsi30
Subwoofer: SVS PB10-NSD

Asus STX sound card -> Harman Kardon AVR325 -> Adcom Amps
Post edited by FutureAudio on
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  • audiobliss
    audiobliss Posts: 12,518
    edited August 2005
    Just to bring up a point, if you can't hear the difference in imaging, soundstage, etc (as I'm sure there is), then it doesn't matter whether or not there is. Personally, that sounds like something that would muddy the sound and decrease detail. However, even if I were an expert and could tell you definitively that it did deteriorate the sound, that shouldn't matter. Audio is subjective. Maybe not everybody likes to hear music how the writer/performer/recorder intended it. If you feel it's an improvement on the sound and you like it, that's what matters.

    That being said, I can't answer your question! lol
    George Grand wrote: »
    Jstas wrote: »
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    In Use
    PS3, Yamaha CDR-HD1300, Plex, Amazon Fire TV Gen 2
    Pioneer Elite VSX-52, Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-82ii, RC-62ii, RS-42ii, RW-10d
    Epson 8700UB
    In Storage
    [Home Audio]
    Rotel RCD-02, Yamaha KX-W900U, Sony ST-S500ES, Denon DP-7F
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII, Parasound P/HP-850, ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Klipsch RF-35, RB-51ii
    [Car Audio]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP, Memphis 16-MCA3004, Boston Acoustic RC520
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  • ohskigod
    ohskigod Posts: 6,502
    edited August 2005
    many go the stacked route for a while and then switch back. it will give a more rich and full sound (a bigger wall of sound so to speak), but in terms of accuracy, I think they will fight each other to an extent. If you enjoy it, keep going with it. down the road, you might stop, hear the difference, and learn something about how it sounds different. Allway try new things, its how you learn about this hobby.
    Living Room 2 Channel -
    Schiit SYS Passive Pre. Jolida CD player. Songbird streamer. California Audio Labs Sigma II DAC, DIY 300as1/a1 Ice modules Class D amp. LSi15 with MM842 woofer upgrade, Nordost Blue Heaven and Unity interconnects.

    Upstairs 2 Channel Rig -
    Prometheus Ref. TVC passive pre, SAE A-205 Amp, Wiim pro streamer and Topping E50 DAC, California Audio Labs DX1 CD player, Von Schweikert VR3.5 speakers.

    Studio Rig - Scarlett 18i20(Gen3) DAW, Mac Mini, Aiyma A07 Max (BridgedX2), Totem Mites
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,548
    edited August 2005
    Timing errors and image smear, but if it sounds better to you.......
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Mike682
    Mike682 Posts: 2,074
    edited August 2005
    FutureAudio wrote:
    I can feel the sound the way I never did before.

    For experts out here, does this causes any undue change in imaging or anything?

    More importantly, if it sounds good to you, keep it.
    Receiver: harmankardon AVR235
    Mains: polk R30
    Center: polk CSi3
    Rear Surrounds: polk R20
    Subwoofer: polk PSW404
    DVD: Panasonic DVD-S29
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,641
    edited August 2005
    If you have to stack.

    It means only one thing, you arn't satisfied with the sound.

    Which means only one thing. Its time for new speakers.

    Sucks, I know.

    Stacking is dangerous... make sure you have SOMETHING attaching the top speaker to the bottom - rubber bands, a cloth...

    Because ONE WILL FALL.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • audiobliss
    audiobliss Posts: 12,518
    edited August 2005
    Why don't you tell us how you know that, Sid? ;)
    George Grand wrote: »
    Jstas wrote: »
    Simple question. If you had a cool million bucks, what would you do with it?
    Wonder WTF happened to the rest of my money.
    In Use
    PS3, Yamaha CDR-HD1300, Plex, Amazon Fire TV Gen 2
    Pioneer Elite VSX-52, Parasound HCA-1000A
    Klipsch RF-82ii, RC-62ii, RS-42ii, RW-10d
    Epson 8700UB
    In Storage
    [Home Audio]
    Rotel RCD-02, Yamaha KX-W900U, Sony ST-S500ES, Denon DP-7F
    Pro-Ject Phono Box MKII, Parasound P/HP-850, ASL Wave 20 monoblocks
    Klipsch RF-35, RB-51ii
    [Car Audio]
    Pioneer Premier DEH-P860MP, Memphis 16-MCA3004, Boston Acoustic RC520
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  • TheReaper
    TheReaper Posts: 636
    edited August 2005
    Back in the days when I only had 2 ch (stereo) HT. I used to have a bookshelf speaker flipped upside down, and 2½ feet above each of my mains. This created a 'Wall of Sound' effect, and gave much more presence.
    Win7 Media Center -> Onkyo TXSR702 -> Polk Rti70
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,641
    edited August 2005
    I know all about stacking... while I enjoy it - I enjoy speakers that don't need it done.

    Mike, My old RT35i beat up my entertainment center one day - literally.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • BobMcG
    BobMcG Posts: 1,585
    edited August 2005
    I guess it's like others have said, basically what ever trips your trigger. If you like it go with it.

    That aside, a "wall" of sound may produce just that, a lot of room filling sound. It doesn't mean accurate, detailed, focused, well, just plain quality sound. If you feel the need to build a wall of sound by stacking up multiple speakers to enjoy what it is you're listening to, maybe there's a weak link(s) in the system that needs to be addressed.
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  • Dennis Gardner
    Dennis Gardner Posts: 4,861
    edited August 2005
    I'm "fullbodied" just like your new wall of sound, but my wife rarely refers to me as detailed, clear, and delicate. ;) Alot of quys over at AudioKarma stack their vintage speakers to get that "full" sound trying to have a concert-like environment that they grew up on, but few of them refer to their systems as accurate and detailed, just "kickass and fullbodied"

    To each his own...................just enjoy.
    HT Optoma HD25 LV on 80" DIY Screen, Anthem MRX 300 Receiver, Pioneer Elite BDP 51FD Polk CS350LS, Polk SDA1C, Polk FX300, Polk RT55, Dual EBS Adire Shiva 320watt tuned to 17hz, ICs-DIY Twisted Prs, Speaker-Raymond Cable

    2 Channel Thorens TD 318 Grado ZF1, SACD/CD Marantz 8260, Soundstream/Krell DAC1, Audio Mirror PP1, Odyssey Stratos, ADS L-1290, ICs-DIY Twisted , Speaker-Raymond Cable
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  • Airplay355
    Airplay355 Posts: 4,298
    edited August 2005
    I think the much more presence and wall of sound effect is attributed to the increase in SPL by adding more speakers. Get nicer speakers, and a nicer power source and you will have a nicer effect with less mess.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,641
    edited August 2005
    Dont forget the source! Source is -very- important... among the other things you listed.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • ohskigod
    ohskigod Posts: 6,502
    edited August 2005
    man, i knew Sid had to post here at some point :) Hey, as I said, I went through a stacking phase for close to a year but cam to the same epiphany Sid did. If it needs to be stacked, you arent happy with the speakers, or the sound anyway. good point on it possibly being source related as well.
    Living Room 2 Channel -
    Schiit SYS Passive Pre. Jolida CD player. Songbird streamer. California Audio Labs Sigma II DAC, DIY 300as1/a1 Ice modules Class D amp. LSi15 with MM842 woofer upgrade, Nordost Blue Heaven and Unity interconnects.

    Upstairs 2 Channel Rig -
    Prometheus Ref. TVC passive pre, SAE A-205 Amp, Wiim pro streamer and Topping E50 DAC, California Audio Labs DX1 CD player, Von Schweikert VR3.5 speakers.

    Studio Rig - Scarlett 18i20(Gen3) DAW, Mac Mini, Aiyma A07 Max (BridgedX2), Totem Mites
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  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited August 2005
    And a lot of guys at AudioKarma rave about their Pioneer shitboxes and even worse, the Sansui abortions. Now lets not overlook the fact that they are driving them with some REALLY **** RECEIVERS TOO!

    One knucklehead over there has managed to pick himself up a pair of the exalted AR-9's. He recently asked how he could bi-amp them with two RECEIVERS!!! That individual should be dismembered on live TV so I could watch. Or maybe ripped apart by wild dogs.

    Nice place to visit, there is SOME good info there.

    George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,548
    edited August 2005
    Amen!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • ND13
    ND13 Posts: 7,601
    edited August 2005
    George Grand wrote:
    And a lot of guys at AudioKarma rave about their Pioneer shitboxes and even worse, the Sansui abortions. Now lets not overlook the fact that they are driving them with some REALLY **** RECEIVERS TOO!

    One knucklehead over there has managed to pick himself up a pair of the exalted AR-9's. He recently asked how he could bi-amp them with two RECEIVERS!!! That individual should be dismembered on live TV so I could watch. Or maybe ripped apart by wild dogs.

    Nice place to visit, there is SOME good info there.

    George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)


    That's fantastic!!! I almost spit all over my screen, again. Classic GG, for sure. Rip 'em a new ****, then pacify 'em... CLASSIC. ;):D :cool:
    "SOME PEOPLE CALL ME MAURICE,
    CAUSE I SPEAK OF THE POMPITIOUS OF LOVE"
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  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited August 2005
    It's the truth mon! There is SOME good info there, but for the most part, dogshit old Pioneer and Sansui receivers, along with offensive JBL, Pioneer, Klipsch, and yes, SANSUI speakers are the best things since sliced bread. Ask Troy, one dumb smack e-mailed to admonish him for the comments he made regarding the Pioneer CS-88 dogs I gave him to use in his garage.

    There are a LOT of great, knowledgeable people there, and their real strong suit is not telling the muttonheads to screw off with their tales of great sound from Pioneer CS-99 speakers (15" woofers and a 50Hz -3db point. "I" could build a better speaker). It's an okay place, but a lot of those folks wouldn't know good audio reproduction because they have never heard it. AND THEY DON'T WANT TO!!!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited August 2005
    George Grand wrote:
    And a lot of guys at AudioKarma rave about their Pioneer shitboxes and even worse, the Sansui abortions. Now lets not overlook the fact that they are driving them with some REALLY **** RECEIVERS TOO!

    One knucklehead over there has managed to pick himself up a pair of the exalted AR-9's. He recently asked how he could bi-amp them with two RECEIVERS!!! That individual should be dismembered on live TV so I could watch. Or maybe ripped apart by wild dogs.

    Nice place to visit, there is SOME good info there.

    George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

    ROTFLMAO....sometimes you really have a way with the English language GG. Put it on pay-per view and I'll pony up some $$$. How about an old fashioned hanging in the town square?

    Rock On

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited August 2005
    True statement, some dude was SERIOUSLY ticked that I would banish the venerable Pioneer CS-88a's to the garage rig. They are BARELY qualified to do that. Cool cabinets. **** sound. The Sansuis are even worse.

    George hit the nail on the head, I like AK. Lots off good guys on there but a majority of them wouldn't know good sound if it bit them in the ****.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • george daniel
    george daniel Posts: 12,096
    edited August 2005
    Godd post GG,maybe they should be "drawn & quartered" on live TV,while listening to their system,then Pete Townsend can diembowel their system with an axe,, good grief,I'm sick !!
    JC approves....he told me so. (F-1 nut)
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  • Mazeroth
    Mazeroth Posts: 1,585
    edited August 2005
    Stacking speakers will cause something called comb filtering, where the distance from the center of the woofer/tweeter to the next center of the woofer/tweeter is greater than one wavelength. For example, and this is ROUGH math, if your drivers (say 6.5" drivers) are producing a tone at 2.5khz and are more than 7" apart, center to center, the two wavelengths will actually begin to cancel each other out. Extreme cancellations will occur at two wavelengths, or if the speakers are roughly 14" apart.

    This gets really problematic when using 2 tweeters, because if they're more than 3" apart you're going to get EXTREME cancellations.
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  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited August 2005
    You got 4 of the exact same speakers to jack around with? Place them back to back with one pair firing at you, and the other pair firing at the front wall. You know, the whole Blose direct/reflecting thing, with one minor twist. There's a good chance YOU'LL be using real speakers, not Blose.

    George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,641
    edited August 2005
    George...

    Thats a horrible suggestion.

    The spacing of the rear and front drivers are crucial for that type of technology to work. Placing speaker front and back would, most likely put the front and rear drivers about 20+" apart!!! Thats horrible...

    The distance between front and rear drivers is crucial. However Bose reflecting technology is flawed as it sends the sound all kinds of directions...
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited August 2005
    The only speaker that should ever be stacked, tweeter to tweeter, is 2 pair of 'The Advent Loudspeaker'. You better make sure you have a man amp on the back end, I'd suggest something along the lines of a Hafler 500. THAT is how 'stacking' is done.

    Anything else is childs play.

    Cheers,
    Russ
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,641
    edited August 2005
    RuSsMaN wrote:
    The only speaker that should ever be stacked, tweeter to tweeter, is 2 pair of 'The Advent Loudspeaker'. You better make sure you have a man amp on the back end, I'd suggest something along the lines of a Hafler 500. THAT is how 'stacking' is done.

    Anything else is childs play.

    Cheers,
    Russ

    I was so close to doing that too! Never got around to restoring that other pair of Advents though...

    Didnt have a man amp to put on em though, but I didnt think they had that much power handling?? :confused:
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited August 2005
    They have very low dips in impedance Sid, especially when wired in parallel and stacked. Down to 1 ohm at some frequencies. Legendary woofer. I still have a pair.
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,641
    edited August 2005
    That explains so much... lol

    That is possibly one of the most ineffecient speakers I have ever had the pleasure of using/owning.
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited August 2005
    Who pulled the stake out of Sid's heart?

    Dr. Howard Ferstler, Chief of Psychoacoustics at FSU/Miami MIGHT take issue with your statement. He's done exactly what I suggested for many, many years now with a couple pair of Allison IC-20's. You wish you had one pair, of Allison IC-20's. I do. But hey, don't let that stop you from getting ahold of the good doctor and filling him in on your research findings.

    Russ, don't get pissed off about the short answer last night regarding the BAS. I couldn't stay at that site for one more moment, no less fill those dunderheads in on The Truth.

    George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)
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  • RuSsMaN
    RuSsMaN Posts: 17,987
    edited August 2005
    I know, I've been trying to infuse that board with a reasonable amount of Hi-Fidelity, but sometimes it seems fruitless.
    Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service.
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  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited August 2005
    SEEMS fruitless? There are times I wish I could make battery acid drip out their monitors to slowly eat their knees.

    Seen the lunatic lately?

    George
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