Dead subject but I have to comment!!

mantis

I know you guy know how awefull Circiut city demo room's sound.But Yesterday took the cake.
My partner has been looking for a nice speaker system to go with his theater.He owns the Yamaha rxv1,Sony dvpns900v DVD/SACD Progressive player,Pioneer Laserdisk,Mitsubishi HDTV dss satellite,Mitsubishi 46" HDTV tv,Tivo,he is currently running RBH inwalls for 6.1 and he has a Polk Audio pws1200 sub.He loves his sub as it can just about detach his house from the basement,but he feels the inwalls lack for music playback.His theater sounds great for movies.He comes over my house and he loves the way my theater sounds.Music he feel's his system can't even come close.So now hes on a quest to but new speaker's.Our store carries the very best in speaker's from around the world.I don't think you could find a better selection then our's under one roof.But that come's high prices even at our employee discount.
Around here(Phila area,Pa)there's only a couple places you can here Polk's go(as Bryn Mawr Stereo now Tweeter doesn't carry Polk's anymore)You have Circuit city,The Wiz In new Jersey,Interstate Electronic's on the other side of New Jersey,and some small hole in the ground places in New York.So We went around listening to Polk's in all these places trying to put together a system that would work well with his room and gear.No places that we demo'd even came close to sounding anywhere near as good as my setup does.
Circuit City took the cake yesterday ,they have the new rti100's and we were pumped to here them go,but we knew we were going to get a less then a good demo but with hope on our side,we hoped for the best.We used a Harman Kardan avr7000 ad it sounded like hell,Onkyo 898 was even worse,so I went out to the car to get some usic of my own as the salesman selection was less then....well you understand.They still had a Pair of rt1000i's (which I Own in P's)and they sounded so bad I would have to say my clock radio had better overall performance.This was embarrising for me,as I love my rt1000p's and know what they can do with great wire and a good amp,but not in here(circiut city or **** should i say).I just about wanted to get all of my Polk's out of my house as people that never heard Polk's,go to circuit city and here that and think,Man those speaker's suck real bad,I can go to Best buy,spend less and get better sounding speaker's.I know thats not true,but if you can't get a good store demo,how the hell do you spend a thousand dollars and 1 pair of speakers?Do you do it and prey they sound ton's better when you get them home?How do you convince someone that they will?I know they will sound awesome at my partener's house,but he has his douts.Interstate electronic's in east new jersey off of rt36 has a good selection of Polk's even LSi's but there's no where to demo them.They have this dark room with big screen tv all over the place,**** piled up everywhere,the messyest store I have ever been in.But there prices are just about wholesale and the salespeople are very nice and know
something.We listened to the Lsi 15's VS the rt1000i's,running a Yamaha rxv1 and It sounded good but not as good as my setup.The Lsi 15 sounded good but didn't blow away the rt1000i's like I expected them to.
I personally would love to upgrade my system,but I can't because I haven't had a demo on Polk's anywhere that sound better then what I already own.My stuff sounds great, but I'm building a Theater and want to upgrade.My partner wants new speaker's like's my system but can't here a good demo other then my house.
It suck's so bad the Polk can't get into better store's and gain more respect for there great product's.
Dan

pensacola

>>It suck's so bad the Polk can't get into better store's and gain more respect for there great product's.

It seems that they WERE in better stores back in the 80s. 'Course that was probably before C.C. and Best Buy came along.
I remember going into a high end store back then to hear the SDA SRS's (8 mid-drivers per channel), and it was obvious to me that the L and R was reversed (maybe because I know that the violins sit on the LEFT side of an orchestra—not the RIGHT). But, who was I? Some kid demo'ing a set of speakers he couldn't afford, telling the salesman that his setup was all f'ed-up. Anyway, it wasn't a good demo—even at a so-called high end store.
Other times I've demo'd gear, it was obvious to me that the speakers were either reversed or out-of-phase, or that only ONE was playing at all(!) The salesmen hadn't a clue that there was ANY problem. Might as well be demo'ing stereo gear at Radio Trash.
And then there's the times when you go into a demo, and the salesman fumbles for 5-10 minutes trying desparately to hook up the right gear to the right speakers. You end up walking out—embarassed for the salesman.

My only guess is that Polk started marketing its products to an even lower-end market than the "mid-to-high-end market" that I think they started out with, causing the high-end salons to drop them.
I don't know if Polk's quality has dropped any over the years, since I haven't been in the serious market to buy speakers since I bought my SDA 2A's in the 80s.
I should make it a point to go listen to some—if I can find someplace that will actually demo them correctly.:(

wangotango68

hell most places there are no "high end" stores anymore. here in fort wayne we used to have 3-4 but now we have one audio video lifestyles. so for most of the country the only places to buy audio gear is a best buy or cc. the market has changed and polk changed with it. its not that the "salons" droped them,the "salons
disappered.


scott:cool:

Nashvilletitans

hadn't really thought about it, but ya got a good point Scott.
John

mantis

Around my way(Phila area and subburbs)there are many goos audio store's.Just NONE OF THEM CARRY POLK'S.Polk's quality didn't go down, I think there marketing has.They could do so much better if they would be in a custom audio store/shop.You wouldn't believe how many Boston accoustic's we sold in Tweeter whenI used to Install for them,there not great speaker's,hell Polk's are beter in many way's.Outdoor speaker's are hot seller as people like to listen while in the back yard in the pool drinking beer,don't you??Inwalls fly out our door (Soundex)for theater and multiroom audio,we use RBH and NILES, BOTH MAKE A NICE SPEAKER BUT COULD BE pOLK'S.bUT THERE NOT.World Wide Stereo(BoB and Ron's) do tons of inwalls,outdoor speaker's,but again none are Polk's.Get my drift???
The new rti line could very well be better then my rt line(P's and i'S) but I will never know.The Lsi line could be killer,I heard them at Interstate audio and video,it was a killed demo,I will never know how good they are.
Dan

joe logston

best way to do it is get it on loan , your buy it and bering it home to listen to, talk to the manager see if they can let you do that.leave them a credit card or something.

joe logston

the reason that most stores dont carry polk is they dont make much money on them, the ones that do, they dont take the time or money to set up right. if they did they loose there profit. or they will have to rise the price of polks. so in order to take avandage of low prices we loose good listing rooms.

joe logston

if you are going to buy polk go and do it you wont go wong in geting them if you set them up right they are hard to beat , they are the best for the money, i love it with my polks how they sound compared to hi price hi end speakers, all i can do is laugh at these hi end guys that try to say how good there $3000 speakers sound

Aaron

best way to do it is get it on loan , your buy it and bering it home to listen to, talk to the manager see if they can let you do that.leave them a credit card or something.

Many of the crappy stores aren't really into the "weekend demo" thing. It's just not their game.

the reason that most stores dont carry polk is they dont make much money on them, the ones that do, they dont take the time or money to set up right. if they did they loose there profit. or they will have to rise the price of polks. so in order to take avandage of low prices we loose good listing rooms.

I don't buy that. I think the main reason is for product differentiation. If you go to a speciality hi-fi store you expect to see something different than what you see at a CC. Besides, who wants to directly compete with a store like CC? I'd probably pick up a differnet line too. There are plenty of speakers out there that pack a similar value as Polk.

if you are going to buy polk go and do it you wont go wong in geting them if you set them up right they are hard to beat , they are the best for the money

Not everyone hears things the same. You can't make a sweeping generalization like that.

i love it with my polks how they sound compared to hi price hi end speakers, all i can do is laugh at these hi end guys that try to say how good there $3000 speakers sound

And maybe they laugh at you, because you can't tell the difference.

Aaron

dean/klipschead

we have Bose to thank for this mess

How can a company like Polk survive if it doesn't get it's product out there to be heard. Klipsch has done the same thing. Klipsch at Walmart baby. Yea...it's disgusting.

I've heard my beloved RF7's in less than ideal conditions and they never sound as good as they do at home. This is normal and I expect it.

It would seem to me that if Polk sounds bad in a demo room -- then the other stuff in the same demo room will sound much, much worse.

pensacola

>>It would seem to me that if Polk sounds bad in a demo room -- then the other stuff in the same demo room will sound much, much worse.

I haven't shopped for speakers in 15 years. I'd say there was a bit of an audiophile heyday back then—shortly after CDs hit the market (then we were treated to "digital ready" headphones, "digital ready" cables, "digital ready" receivers, "digital ready" digital CD players;) ).

I decided I'd go do some listening today. I grabbed about 6 CDs and headed out. Three of the four places I wanted to go were closed on Saturdays—who would shop for gear on SATURDAYS?! :mad:
So, I stopped in at C.C. Their room wasn't set up for auditioning speakers at all. They had HT set up in the corner, with all the speakers coming out from that point (basically on a 45º angle from center). It may have been a decent HT setup, but not conducive to auditioning speakers for 2-channel. They had Bose, Infinity and Polk, but I didn't listen to any of it. And not a chair in the room to sit in!

I'll check out the other places in town that MIGHT have some decent gear, and hopefully they'll have a better setup to actually LISTEN to speakers.

joe logston

what im saying is that if you buy polks at cc and you dont like them you can take them back before 30 days witch will give you plenty of time to decide if you like them, sorry about that

dean/klipschead

that's a good point joe

yea -- drag 'em home and give 'em a good workout

for sure

joe logston

cc the only place that sells polks in las vegas, the goodguys dont sell them any more, and ultimate electronics use to too but they dont now, so it is hard to get a listing comparason for polks. i guess i will take my own chair and cds and go frist thing saterday morring wend doors open. and rush in , and take a listen.


the cc buy my home will have the lsi serious

joe logston

the one hi end speaker that do blow away polks are the b&w 802 serious 2 they are great speakers but $4,800 a pair and they dont make them no more, there are more , but they cost more

the 802 sound a lot better than the 801 i thank

the rf-7 klipsch sound real good to in two 2 channel they cost about $2,000 THE BIGGER THE SOUND ROOM THE BETTER FOR THE KLIPSCH.

danger boy

It would be great to see Polk speakers in more stereo shops. Yeah the hi end shops are still out there, although they are few and far between. some of them don't carry Polks. Not sure why either. The high end stereo store near me.. carries just about every mid-hi brand, except Polk. It's to bad too. because this shop has a good loyal customer base.

Seems like Polk needs a good marketing campaign to kick it into high gear. I have never seen a Polk TV commercial. why is that? TV reaches more people than magazines or newspapers do.

My advice to Matt... try a TV commercial or two and see if sales increase. I suspect they will.. only if people can find Polk Audio speakers in their home town.

mantis

I think all you guys make good points in your own rights.The Lsi's going into a CC is a joke.What do they have to run them???Nothing at all,unless the CC where they are going to carry will have Proceed(Harman's big brother)Or the Integra 9.1(Onkyo's sister company)Now Integra 9.1 isn't all thats it's cranked up to be anyway, it's a crappy sounding Onkyo with more feautures.The only reason it got respect when it came out is the fact that it was one of the first to have built in rear channel's for surround back.Big deal,there's still only a couple of movies out and no dvd audio or sacd in this format anyway.
But there is alot of speaker's out there that will kill Polk's.You will have to pay alot more as well.B&W is one of those companies that make good mid fi speaker's(nowhere near as good as Polk) but in the Hi end world they are a serious competitor.
The tv spot would be great but then you will have that many more people wondering into circuit city with the high expectations and only to find a let down.
I think Polk needs to Remarket there product to better stores and et the hell out of Circuit City.That would take some time,but it would be all worth it for more people to hear what a great company they are.For now,just us will no the Truth.
Dan

joe logston

i talked to the manager at the cc by where i live, about wend they are going to get the lsi series in , or are they going to have them, he said they will have them in 40 to 45 days, and i ask him what he going to run them on , he looked at me kind of funny, i said those lsi speakers are 4 ohm , he said, oh you are right i hever thought of that, i said yes you are going have to get a receiver or an amp to run them right that can hadle 4 ohms. he looked like he was kind of sweting a little he didnt know what to say. i said i will see you in 1 1/2 mos. to listen. he said ok see you.

this was saterday afternoon

pensacola

>>I think Polk needs to Remarket there product to better stores and et the hell out of Circuit City.

Unless that relationship is not working out for Polk, that probably would not be the wisest financial decision. It'd be like Budweiser pulling out of Wal-Mart in order to concentrate their efforts on pricey grocery stores. NOT saying that Polk is the Budweiser of speakers.;)
However, Polk has always tried to market their wares to the common man—much like Bud. The common man shops at Circuit City—not high-end shops.
There are always going to be in-between brands that could either find a home in high-end stores, or in C.C. Not cheap, but not expensive.

[I realized after seeing the poster of Matt Polk in C.C. yesterday that he hasn't aged a bit in 20 years!]

The question is: What would hurt Polk more (financially)... to be in C.C and NOT be in the higher-end stores, or to pull out of C.C. in order to gain a presence in the higher-end shops?

For them, they will be better off in the C.C.-type stores. The sales they make at C.C. far outweigh any losses they realize by the snobbish audiophile who wouldn't set foot in a C.C.

Market a cheap product in a high-end shop, and it won't sell.
Market an expensive product in a bargain store, and it won't sell.
You have to go to where your target audience is—not try to change them.

Polk SHOULD be in both high-end and low-end stores, because they do fit squarely into that in-between "mid-end" catagory. But, like someone else said in this thread, high-end stores are NOT going to directly compete with C.C. in a particular product line, and for good reason.

wangotango68

but dan were are they going to sell them? i agree with you but they can't market to everybody if they are not in the "big"stores.
i know around here it seamed like when dolby surrond came out around 10-12 years ago alot of the small stores started to go away. when the cc and the best buy's starting to pop up.
and once people started to fuse audio/video,it left the small stereo stores out in the cold.


scott:cool:

pensacola

Yep... high-end stores were slow to jump on the home theater band wagon, and it bit them in the ****. It took them (and their manufacturers) many years to figure out that HT (and surround sound in general) was a viable medium, and not some splash-in-the-pan fad. By then, it was too late for some of the high-end shops to jump on that wagon—it already left the station.

johnnyamerika

Plus I just think it's the nature of the high end to not want a speaker that is owned by 'common' listeners. I'm actually glad Polk sells in Mass Market stores; the product is too good to keep 'hidden' for select audiophiles. I see people in cc all the time that are blown away by polks, and they came to buy bose or infinity. Yeah, the demos sound bad there, but the polks are still the best sounding ones in the store, and by proof cc sells more polks than any other speaker brand in cc.

and I think the reason surround is more applicable in the mass market, taking the fire away from small shops, is because the common listener can actually hear a difference, where most don't have an ear for higher end speakers.

Dr. Spec

All I can say is thank God Circuit City carries Polk. You are all 100% correct about the crappy demo rooms, and idiot salespeople - I wouldn't have it any other way.

Buying Polks at CC is like fleecing sheep. They are big enough to offer heavy sales discounts, "open box" items, and the manager will even wheel and deal more if you push him/her in a private conversation.

I bought a CS400i, two RT800i's, two PSW350's, and two CS245i's (as surrounds - OK I'm different but they excel in this capacity) for $1,500. I knew what I was buying, even if the pimple-faced, green-haired punk **** helping me didn't. I practically stole that system and it couldn't happen anywhere else except at CC (OK, maybe E-Bay), and certainly not at a "high end" audio store.

At high end audio stores, who pays for the acoustically perfect listening room, the leather listening chair, the top of the line amps and connections, the correct system set-up, the knowledgable salesman, and the post coitus wine & cheese ?

That's right, you do.

Aaron

At high end audio stores, who pays for the acoustically perfect listening room, the leather listening chair, the top of the line amps and connections, the correct system set-up, the knowledgable salesman, and the post coitus wine & cheese? That's right, you do.

That's total bull ****. From what I've seen, the equipment sells for the same price everywhere, just like with Polk (unless you're talking about BrandNamez). Just because it's in a "high-end" store you don't think they negotiate price? Please.

Aaron

Dr. Spec

Flame all you want.

I still maintain the high end hi-fi stores (which are definitely less popular today than 15 years ago) require a higher profit margin to stay in business because of their reduced sales volume and extras that they offer.

I could never had bought the same set-up for that price at any of the up scale stores in my town. I've had these guys tell me to my face they know CC beats them on price when they run open box and/or clearance deals and they simply can't and won't try to compete - and if I'm that cheap then I can shop elsewhere.

Maybe it's different in your town, but don't assume it's the same everywhere.

As I write this, the nearest CC to me is clearing out a pair of RT2000i's with minor cosmetic flaws for $420 each.......

Aaron

I don't know about open box stuff. That's an area where they might not be able to compete, especially since they probably don't have as many open boxes. I'm not buying the higher profit margin stuff. I can see a higher profit margin coming from the manufacturers (to help pay for R&D), but not from the dealers.

Aaron

mantis

Let me jump in here,
I have worked for mid fi store's(tweeter) and I currently for for a hi end store(Soundex)and the reason you find nicer demo room's better seating,salespoeple that know whats going on is that the people comming in our expecting it.Ask yourself this, would you feel more comfortable buying a BMW 525i from your local used car dealer, with a smile on his face talking about how good you would look in this car??Or would you rather go to a BMW dealership where the people know the car inside and out, have the proper staff to guide you in your journey.
At hi end stores, you do pay for all thats in it, but not buy marking up the prices,Hi end store's have better prices on common gear.Usually about 25 to 50 bucks.They even sell common products at same price.But never over,it's not good bussiness.Hi end stores don't push boxes out he door, they push an experience out the door.When you buy in a good hi end store, you get treated very well.They don't have 1000's and 1000's of people just walking in everyday.They/we do very well.Here's the long and short of it.when you come into our store and sit down to hear a pair of speaker's,watch a projector or a big screen, you get to sit on a couch, a leather chair,turn down the light's and get to know your new purchase, how it will some what look in your house and sound.Get a good feeling about whats in store.Realise that your not number 1000 in the store today and 300 more are waiting for you to move.It's a different world in hi end, more laid back, and lots more money.
It's your choice where you do your shopping,If you like CC, great you stand alone somewhat, but standing is key.
One more thing on open boxes,we don't have hardly none,most stores that have tons stacked up all over the store show's that the kind salesman don't know how to sell his products.
Dan

Dr. Spec

Great response. I know where you are coming from, and if I was researching a subject or a component I knew nothing about, CC would be the last place I would start - I'd be in a store like yours instead.

Never said I liked CC - I don't. I don't like the crowds, the inattentive and misinformed salespeople, the crappy soundrooms, the equipment hooked up wrong, etc.

All I said was I'm glad CC sells Polk because if you know what you're looking for and don't need help in making your purchases or understanding the equipment, and you play your cards right, you can often buy Polk products at CC at a very substantial discount, in some cases at wholesale cost.

For the discriminating and informed buyer on a shoestring budget, CC can be a viable option, despite all it's other drawbacks. Price is a very powerful motivator.

Case in point - has anyone ever seen a set of RT2000i speakers sold for $840, even on-line?

Or how about a pair of almost perfect RT800i's (one with a scuffed base) for $460?

Or a PSW350 for $212?!!

Who would deny these are screamin' deals? Do you carry Polk in your store, and if so, could you match these prices?

Granted, they may be returns or have some cosmetic flaws from the showroom, but they are fully functional and carry a full warranty, with a 30 day return policy - no questions asked.

If you know exactly what Polk products you want, CC is worth keeping an eye on - ONLY because they (occasionally) have exceptional deals - that's all.

Spec

mantis

No we don't carry Polk's.It's funny because I sugested picking them up to try them out in our store and I got ARE YOU CRAZY,BRINGING THEM IN HERE, THEY HAVE NO RIGHT BEING IN THIS STORE.And the polk bashing went on and on.They all think my speaker's suck, and don't understand why I own them as I have so much to choose from in our store.I don't like when people kick my system but I like them and thats what matter's.I would put my rt1000p's up against Dynaudio AUDIENCE 72'S AND B&W DM and CM line.And even the Martin Logan Aeon's.But that is as far as I think they would go as we get crazy in our lines.Wilson audio,Martin Logan B&W Dynaudio's and we go all the way to the top, carry the whole line. Scary what speaker's can cost.
It's cool you can get those great deals on speaker's,so can I as working for a store can help thing's along,but I still don't know how you buy your Polk's if you can't hear them go first???I can't buy speaker's off of faith.I have alot of faith in Polk to build a good speaker at a good price,but i can't go on that alone.I have heard my speaker's that I own and have owned before I bought.They didn't come out of Circuit ****.
But everybodies different, some people aren't as critical with there gear as i am.I mean I have wire that exceed's the value of some of my componet's.Scary!!
Dan

Aaron

I would put my rt1000p's up against.....the Martin Logan Aeon's.

That's quite a stretch.

Aaron

Dr. Spec

Have to admit - went on faith, Polk's well deserved reputation, a whole lot of on-line reviews, prior extensive experience with a pair of 10B's (dating myself), a brief demo in the store, and a firm conviction that if I couldn't figure out what I liked or disliked about any speaker within 30 days, I shouldn't be into hi-fi and HT.

My system is not the best - I know that. But it is very good by any measure. And for what I paid, it represents tremendous value, and I think that pretty much defines Polk and my philosophy about hi-fi and HT.

BTW, I believe in good connections too - Monster, AR, etc. That's one area where CC IS a rip-off - I buy that stuff on-line.

Great thread.........thanks for all the differing opinions.